.338x.284 Win Project

[gitano]

Since the project has progressed from the planning stage to the doing stage, I decided to start a thread specific to the build.

I finally, today, July 13th, got the reamer to cut the reloading dies from Pacific Tool and Gauge. I have the die blanks, so now it's just a matter of  cutting the dies. J0e_bl0ggs suggested that I get the expander ball/button in carbide, and I think that's a good idea. Checking with Redding, they make decapping spindles for sale, but they don't sell them 'direct'. I have to go through a retailer. Ditto for the carbide button. Total cost $62.30. So considering the $180 for the reamer, the $50 for two die blanks ($25 each), and the $62 for the spindle with carbide button, I have "only" $292.30 invested in this die set. I think I could have gotten a die set from CH4D for less.

I'll post some pictures when I start making chips.


Paul

[gitano]

Just got off the phone with CH4D, and I could have had one of their 2-die sets for $110 plus shipping, and added a neck sizer for another $83, for a total of $193 plus shipping. So just about $100 LESS than making my own, and that only two dies! Sigh.

Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Sometimes makin stuff is just an education...

[gitano]

Apparently I need some math education too. $180+(2*$50)+$62 does not equal $292, it equals $342. Sheesh. An even greater savings to have someone else do it.

Paul

PS - MAN! I don't know what has gotten into me! Here's the correct math. I guess third time's a charm... $180 for reamer, $25 EACH for die blanks, $62 for decapping stem, for a CORRECT grand total of $292, which is what I had the FIRST TIME!

Paul

[Jamie.270]

I love it when a plan comes together.


But I hate it when it comes in over budget.


Seems to happen a lot these days.  To me anyway.

[gitano]

Diameter and thread pitch of Redding spindle is 9/16-18 NF. The correct drill for that diameter thread and pitch is 33/64". Of course. Couldn't be 1/64" smaller at 32/64, or HALF AN INCH! NOOOO! That would be too easy. Have to go 1/64th larger so that you CAN'T use a NORMAL, STANDARD drill from a regular drill index. Gotta buy a "special" one 1 friggin' 64th if an inch larger! @#$& ! Of course, I could use a boring bar. And I just might.

Paul

[gitano]

As I mentioned in the original post, I don't want to fiddle with recreating the decapping/neck expanding spindle and purchased one, plus the carbide button "kit" to go with it. I got those over the weekend. Here's a picture of the parts I got:



One of the items circled was $15.07, the other was $42.98. Guess which was which.

The "kit" contains:
One decapping pin,
One "nut" for capturing the button and tightening the collet on the decapping rod to hold the pin, and
One carbide button that is a slip fit on the decapping rod above the "nut". $42.98. Seriously.

The other assembly, which requires more steps to fabricate including pressing parts together and very small external, threaded, slitted "collet", costs $15.07.

:cens: :cens: :cens:  !!!

I'm SERIOUSLY tempted to return the $42.98 carbide neck expander ball.


Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

You ever tried to make one? Rhetorical question.

[gitano]

J0e_bl0ggs - Nope.

Let me tell y'all about my day yesterday.

Starting off, I took my new pup out for his morning constitutional. His feces had no feces, it was 100% round worm. Barf. Into the house and wait an hour and a half for vet office to open up so I can get him treated. Call vet, they're nice enough, but have to ask Vet (Dr.) to OK prescription. Get told they'll call me when it's ok'd/ready. Wait for three hours for callback. I have stuff to do besides wait for their call. I mow lawn, and start working on resizing die for .338-.284 Win.

I drilled a hole through the die. The existing hole was about 0.172", as that was the caliber of the blank. I started with a 1/4" drill and pecked away in 0.10" increments  in order to do my best to ensure the drill didn't wander. That took a long time. I then increased drill diameters in 1/16" increments, increasing depth-of-cut to drill diameter. In other words, the next drill size was 5/16ths, and new depth-of-cut was 0.315". I continued up through 21/64ths (0.328). The reamer I have for cutting the 'chamber' of the die is 'piloted', meaning that it has a freely rotating sleeve pilot that fits the bore of the specific caliber, in this case, (0.330 for the 0.338 caliber), thereby not damaging the throat of the bore of the barrel. In the case of a die, it just guides the reamer precisely IF you have the right fit. As you can see from the numbers above, I stopped drilling at 21/64ths or  0.328". You'll also notice, that's 0.002" shy of the pilot diameter of 0.330". Test fitting verified that the pilot did not fit. Good. Now I need to find a reamer, or drill, that was larger than 0.330", but close. That size is "Q", or 0.332". Just about perfect. Living "at the end of the road", I was not optimistic. The fun begins.

I checked all the local places that might have a Q-sized reamer, and of course no one had one. Most of the people, in fact, ALL of the people I spoke with didn't have a clue what a chucking reamer was! They all thought I wanted a tapered reamer for pipe-fitting. �� Looking on line at Fastenal's site, I saw that not only did they carry several cutting tools in size Q, but, according to the site, they had them in stock at the local store. Cool.

Still no call from Vet. I wait a while longer. I want to make all the away-from-home things I have to do - get reamer at Fastenal, pick up prescription at Target, and get dog's worming medicine - in one trip. I'm getting antsy waiting for the vet, so I call them. "We'll call you when the Dr. gives their OK". @#$_& it, I'm headed out.

First stop, Fastenal. They've moved. Hmm...

Go to Target. I walk in the store, and it is pitch dark inside. The cash registers are working, but NO lighting. I walk to the pharmacy. The folks behind the counter tell me they can't sell me anything because their system is down. I say, "You don't have to sell me anything, I'm just here to pick up a prescription." The pharmacist, a nice guy, asks for my ID and starts to look for the 'script. He can't find it. I suspect it's in Kansas city. I had to get a prescription filled while visiting sakorick, and I suspected they got 'confused'. That search took 10 minutes. He then called 'somebody'. They put him on hold for 10 minutes. In the end, "It's in Kansas City. Please come back late this afternoon, and we'll have it ready for you."

In the parking lot, I call Fastenal to get directions to their new location. I get some youngster that doesn't know how to give directions. After guiding him on how to tell me how to get to his location, I head there.

Upon arriving, I am informed that the only Q-sized item they have in the store is a drill bit because all of the stuff that was supposed to be there was "somewhere in Alaska" waylayed during 'the move'. :cens:! The drill bit was $15. Ouch! However, since I wanted to get after this project, and it wasn't a barrel, I bit the bullet and said OK to the $15 gouge. I got ready to pay and was told it was $23+. What! That's NOT tax!? They added $8+ IN SHIPPING! You got to be kidding me! Seriously? How about when you go to the grocery store they tell you the price of something on the shelf, but when you get to the check-out stand try added SHIPPING?! NO! I'm not paying $23+ for a drill I can buy on line for $3! Keep your drill.

Still no call from the vet.

By now Target has my prescription ready. I go back there and get it, then go home.

Still no call from vet. I call again. Same story: "We'll call you." :cens:

Sue wants to go for a bike ride, so she takes the dog and heads in the general direction of the vet. After finishing her ride, she stops at the vet to have a face-to-face. SAME STORY. :cens: She comes home.

In the mean time, I have decided to work on the other end, (spindle), of the die. This should be very straight forward. Recall that the spindle on the one Redding die that I own was 9/16-18NF, and I have purchased, (NOT available locally), the special drill, (33/64ths), for drilling the proper hole, and the 9/16-18NF tap, ALSO not available locally. All I have to do is determine the proper hole depth, (0.9"), drill the hole and tap it. So I do.

After getting it about half tapped, I decide to see how the Redding spindle I BOUGHT, is fitting in the tapped hole. It slips right in. WITHOUT SCREWING! The REDDING spindle "kit" I bought is NOT 9/16-18NF, it is 1/2-20NF! You have got to be kidding me! :cens: :cens: :cens:

Vet closed, no call. At that point, I just gave up. It's been a very long time since I have had a day like this one.

Paul

[Alboy]

:cens:Some days it's just not worth it to chew through the leather straps.

:cens:

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

oooof...

[Jamie.270]

:cens:Some days it's just not worth it to chew through the leather straps.

:cens:

And some days you're the dog, while on other days you end up being the leather strap.

[gitano]

:cens:Some days it's just not worth it to chew through the leather straps.

:cens:

Paul

[gitano]

While that die is not ruined because I can 'hand-make' a 9/16-18NF spindle, I have three more blanks. I pull out the next one and go to town. (By the way, the 1/2-20NF tap and 29/64ths drill were available locally.) The spindle is installed.:) Now I'm just waiting on the Q-sized reamer to arrive and I can finish the resizing die. I don't know if I'll make a seating die because I can use one of my other .338 seating dies. I MAY make a bushing neck-sizer. Or... I might just buy one from CH4D.

Oh yeah, the vet called first thing this morning.

Paul

[gitano]

I had the idea of using the toolpost on the saddle/cross slide on the lathe to hold the reamer, then set my gearing to cut threads (automatically advance the carriage at a specific turn rate, AKA thread pitch), and then advance the carriage by rotating the chuck by hand. I set the thread pitch to the finest my lathe I'd capable of; 104 turns-per-inch. Of course, the 'trick' is getting, and KEEPING, the reamer centered on the center of the bore of the die. There are such things as "floating reamer holders", that allow one to mount the reamer in the tailstock and not worry, too much, about the reamer remaining  centered on the bore of the hole being reamed. I don't have one. (And I'm not going to make one for this exercise.)

Not wanting to ruin another die, I decided to do this experiment on one of my 12L14 steel, (so-called 'free machining'), cutoffs. 12L14 is too soft to make tooling (dies) from, and the cutoffs I have are only 13/16ths in diameter instead of 14/16ths, or 7/8ths. (Reloading dies are threaded 7/8ths-14.) HOWEVER, 13/16ths will "work" in a pinch, or for practice.

Recall that I was drilling the die with bits just under the size of the reamer. I of course did that with the practice die too. Cutting to the chase... It worked, and the reamer was apparently only about 0.0005" out of alignment, as the finished die was only 0.001" bigger than the largest diameter of the reamer. NEVERTHELESS... I wouldn't do it again without a floating reamer holder. Furthermore, I've decide to put off finishing the die untill I get some cases fired in the rifle's chamber so I can get precise measurements. I've attached a picture of the practice die.



A practice cartridge is in the press below the die. At the moment, the neck length is only about 0.28". I'm hoping the rifle's chamber will have a neck length of 0.338" per the reamer's spec.

I'm getting antsy...

Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Anyroad, floating reamer holder allows the reamer to follow your piloted hole to a small degree.
If the pilot is not concentric / perpendicular (to your spindle)  the 'reamer holder' will NOT correct that problem.
Holding the reamer in the toolpost is not really a good way to power ream, it would be difficult to get it on axis, clamping the workpiece in say a drill press would have been better, but that can be done easier in the lathe with tailstock.
There is no requirement for a floating holder - floating stuff seems to be an en vogue reloaders* type of necessity (handy to compensate a little for wear in tailstock / ways in this instance).
Personally have found the 'floating' holder to be more trouble than its worth - having found that a good true running work piece (setup and machined in a 4 jaw) is more desirable along with the natural 'slop' in the tailstock ends up with a good chamber.


*see forsters co-ax for a true push on 'floating'.

[gitano]

Not sure to what your "thumbnail" question refers, my pictures above, which aren't thumbnails, or a problem posting pics in general. I'm working on the latter.

WRT to floating reamer holders, I've come to all the conclusions you have. While I too considered it "floating stuff seems to be an en vogue reloaders* type", I have recently found many machinists and machine shops, advocating their use. I was a little surprised. And, like I said, I was surprised I was able to get alignment sufficiently accurate to only get 0.001" "enlargement" over diameter of reamer. Also, I didn't do any "power" reaming. Rotated chuck by hand. I don't think I'll power chamber-ream again. Rotating chuck by hand is tedious, but being able to advance the reamer "automatically" in very small, uniform increments, ensures no chatter and holding to very precise specs.

Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Have not found many machine shops 'advocating' their use wrt 'floating'. Lots of bs about improved precision out there.

[fabtec]

Paul you are in good company.
Fred Huntington of RCBS fame got his start in the back room of his father's cleaners business. Like many businesses of the day there was a machine shop to maintain the equipment. One of the machines was an engine lathe. It was on this that Fred would begin making his dies for swaging spent .22 brass to make cases for .22 cast bullets. The dies were made from Model"T" axles. You see it was the early '40's and there was a shortage of everything, and what was left was rationed.


The following is copied. It reads well:

NEARLY THREE-QUARTERS OF A CENTURY AGO, FRED HUNTINGTON, who went by the name of "Pop" to family and friends, decided to do something about the post-war bullet shortage by fabricating dies capable of making bullets from chunks of lead and fired .22 rimfire cases. At the time, he was working for his father, who owned a dry-cleaning store in Oroville, California. Running low on ammunition for his varmint rifle, he happened upon a gunsmithing book containing instructions on making a bullet-swaging press and dies needed for the job. Little did Huntington know that the book, along with an old lathe in a back room of the laundry shop, would be the start of a company that would eventually become known around the world for its high-quality reloading equipment.

Those first dies were for .22-caliber bullets and machined from Ford Model T axles from the junkyard. As word of the work spread, so did requests for the dies from other shooters. The dies sold for $35, which wasn't exactly chicken feed back in 1943. The leverage needed for bullet swaging was beyond the capability of a standard reloading press, so Huntington came up with a way of modifying a press made by the Pacific Gun Sight Company of Palo Alto, California. The modified press and dies could be purchased as a package, or, if a shooter already owned a Pacific press, he could buy a conversion kit for it along with the dies.

One of Huntington's customers was Captain Grosvenor Wotkyns, who was a member of the ordnance department at Benecia Arsenal in San Francisco. He was also the originator of the .22 Hornet cartridge. Huntington had never thought about giving his dies a name, so when Wotkyns, an avid varmint shooter, suggested "Rock Chuck Bullet Swage," it stuck. Being rather cumbersome, the name was shortened to RCBS, and the rest is history.

The Huntington name is also associated with one of today's popular rifle cartridges. In 1958, firearms writer and hunting outfitter Les Bowman necked down the .338 Winchester Magnum case to 7mm and sent an action to Fred, who installed a barrel chambered for it. The barrel and reloading dies were stamped ".280 Remington Magnum." Later, while hunting elk with Bowman, Mike Walker at Remington used the rifle, and in 1962 his company changed the name of the wildcat to 7mm Remington Magnum and introduced it in the equally new Remington Model 700 rifle.

So you see Paul,
When I read about your endeavor, I see the correlation to many of the noted pioneers that came before you. Thank you

[gitano]

That's very kind indeed, fabtec. Thank you. Truth be told though, I'm a hack when it comes to machining'.

Paul

[Paul Hoskins]

Paul, litle acorns & chestnuts grow into huge trees. I admire your bambitions & endeavors. You remind me much of  myself. I just  never had the time or finances to follow thru on most of  my projects & many other projects kept  coming up & interfering with projects on hand. Now I'm too old to do much of anything & too blind to see to do it anyway. .......I'm glad to see someone like you interested in such things. Keep the projects going while you're young  & can still see to do them. It's certainly an interesting & fascinating field. ......  Paul H  .....

[gitano]

Just got off the phone with PacNor, and the news isn't good. The owner had a stroke, (he's doing pretty good), and two of their "technicians" got COVID, so they are "set back". They'll "try" to get the rifle finished by November. (It was supposed to be finished this month.) I'm not unhappy with PacNor. Stuff happens, AND... they haven't lied to me about anything. So far. I don't anticipate that they will. The "bluing guy" that they normally use (Gunnar) won't be back in business until November or December, but their other out-source for that service is still available. I seriously doubt I will be taking the rifle to Missouri for deer season this year.

Paul

[gitano]

Just got off the phone with Pac-Nor. They're shipping the rifle. After second invoice, the total, including shipping, is going to be very near $1000. The bluing cost went up, but all thing considered, I'm okay with that final figure.

"All things considered"
Remove old barrel from receiver;
New barrel with custom profile;
Remove quarter-rib from original barrel and install on new barrel;
Chamber and install barrel on old receiver;
Blue new bbl and receiver;
Plus shipping to and from Pac-Nor, and to and from bluer.

A thousand bucks. Not a 'smokin' deal', but, in my opinion, not highway robbery either. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will look just like the .416x.348 Win they did. I'll post pictures when I get my hands on it.

Paul

[gitano]

Don't know what happened to the first version of this post. One of those that 'went into the ether'.



I received this in the mail today:










With the exception of the lever, it is the 'spitting image' of the .416x.348 Win.





As you can see, I put the persimmon forearm on it. I used the original butt because it looks very good for a factory stock, and it even looks good for a custom stock. However, I don't like the stark contrast between the dark walnut and the light persimmon. I've been talking with a stock-making company in Kalifornia about having them do a matching persimmon butt for me. We'll see how that ultimately turns out.
 

I've already taken the scope, (Vortex), off of the .416x.348 Win that I used on the buffalo hunt, and put it on the .338-.284 Win. Of course it's cold, (-15F this morning), and dark, so it's not likely that I will get any shooting for at least two, and probably three, months. :cry: I will be fireforming some cases to get dimensions for QuickLOAD work-up though.

More when there is more.



Paul

[Jamie.270]

Now that's a handsome rifle.
I take it Pac-Nor didn't let you down, on anything other than time?


I hope to see it with a persimmon stock.

[gitano]

PacNor was fine. I have no complaints. I assume they will get their act  together regarding lead times, as time passes and the COVID insanity  wanes. I'm a little concerned about the owner having suffered a stroke.  Not so much that the business will fold, but rather that it will change  hands into one owned by a "businessman" instead of a rifleman. In my  opinion, all the businesses owned by "businessmen" in the US is  precisely what is wrong with "business" in the US. Put simply, people  that go to business school don't learn how to do business CORRECTLY.  What they learn is GREED. "Get as much as you can as fast as you can.  Customer service ONLY if it increases the speed at which you can get  money. Remember that there are millions of customers. A few pissed off  due to being taken advantage of won't matter to your profits" is what is  taught in business school today.

On that note: The scope on this  rifle is a Vortex 6.5-20 with Mil-dot (MoA) reticle. I lost the cover  to the windage knob. I just got off the phone with them, asking for a  new one. They SAY (https://vortexoptics.com/vip-warranty) they have a "no questions asked" policy regarding  repair/replacement. Turns out, that's apparently true. They didn't balk  for a microsecond in telling me that one will be "on the way tomorrow".  No mention of cost, shipping or otherwise. Before I got this paragraph  written, I got an email telling me that the order had been placed, and  that another email would be on its way with tracking info as soon as the  item was shipped. THAT'S IMPRESSIVE.

I'm really having to exercise my patience as the desire to shoot this thing is high. Nevertheless, experience has shown that doing so at this time of year is a waste of time, bullets, and powder, and while I have 'plenty' of time, I do not have plenty of bullets or powder. There's just no future in working up a load in temperatures that are greatly different from those in which you hunt. That's not about the chemistry of gunpowder either. Rather, it's about the steel and wood. At cold temps like these, the steel is sufficiently "smaller" that it effects how the steel touches the wood and the volume of the combustion chamber. It's just not worth it. :cry: So, I'm doing a lot of paper-whipping. Fortunately for "you guys", it's the same ol' QuickLOAD optimal barrel timing (OBT) and pressure stuff, and there's no need to post it here.

However, all the paper-whipping has reminded me of one of the characteristics of long barrels and OBT. Namely, because of their length, the time between nodes is greater. (Duh) What that means is that there is a greater pressure increase between nodes. This is not a big deal to me because I'm not trying to squeeze the last foot per second from this barrel and case. Therefore, the nodes I am focused on have pressures at 47-49kPSI, and 55-58kPSI. (Max SAAMI spec for the case is 63,817PSI.) As you can see, I'm way below SAAMI max. I could flirt with the SAAMI max as that's about where the next node is, pressure-wise, especially in a No.1 action, but then the rifle would kill at both ends, the cases wouldn't last as long, and the ballistic gain would be "over-kill". Literally.

I have decided on Nosler's 200-grain E-Tip for load workup because I have at least 100 of them, and I'm not likely to use them to hunt with until I absolutely have to. I have at least 150 200-grain Accubonds, BUT, and it's a BIG but, I bought them as "Blems" from the Nosler site. I've never had a problem with buying "blemished" bullets from ANY manufacturer. I can't say that any more. I pulled one out of its plastic bag and dropped it in the mouth of one of the fire-formed-and-resized cases. It dropped to the bottom of the case! Yikes! Was there something "off" with the resizing die? I slid the bullet out and dropped in one of the E-Tips. No problem. I measured the diameter of the Accubond. It was 0.321"! That's SEVENTEEN THOUSANDTHS TOO SMALL! Holy mackerel! That's a HUGE difference! I haven't yet, but I will, be measuring every one of those 150 Accubond "blems". I assume they never sell the ones that are SEVENTEEN THOUSANDTHS TOO LARGE! (I'll use all of those .321 bullets for 8mm cartridges.)


Paul

[gitano]

I just got off of the phone with these guys: http://www.gunstockinletting.com/gallery.html. They "remembered" our previous conversation in May, . I told them that I now only wanted the butt done and we talked about 'things'. They will call when they are ready to START work on my rifle, which should be in April. I told them for the sake of this discussion, let's do the "full Monty" for the butt. That means:
1) final inletting to my action,
2) final finishing including checkering,
3) installing skeleton grip cap,
4) installing butt pad.

Total is $1325. Yeah, I did one of these too! Labor for installing skeleton grip cap is $125. Labor for installing butt pad is $100. "Duplicating" - which is their term for using my wood and their pattern - is $195. Checkering is $325 for FOUR-panels. Two for forearm and two for butt. I'm only asking for the two panels on the butt, so I don't know what that price will be. Should be about half. That labor above totals $745. I'll have to find out where the other $580 is going.

I'm not inclined to part with that amount of money to get that work done. If I can get them to agree, I might just have them do the "final" inletting on the action. No checkering, no grip cap, no butt pad, no "finishing". If they will agree to that, that's probably what I'll do. I REALLY like skeleton grip caps, (and butt plates, too), but $125 for the part and $125 for the installation is causing me to "like" it less. I wouldn't consider the "finishing", but they're not going to do the checkering until the butt is finished, and I'm NOT going to do the checkering. So if I want them to checker it, I'll have to let them finish it.

So, not counting the money I spent on the N0.1 originally, I've got almost $1000 in this rifle to date. Add $1325 to that would make $2325. I think, were it "finished" as described above, I might be able to get that much out of it if I tried to sell it. (Then again, I might not. Also, I AM going to sell the original .308 bbl. So that would offset some of the original cost.) Selling this rifle is not likely something I would ever do, but considering that is a 'ruler' of sorts with which to gauge the "reality" of doing something you want to do.


I asked them about turnaround time and they said; "3 to 4 months". I said; "Will I have it back for hunting season 2022?" They asked; "Your season starts around November 21st, right?" I said; "More like November 15." They said; "I will make a note of that. We may start a little earlier to get it back to you a month before so you can go to the range." Like I said, I'm beginning to like these guys. :) Don't like their prices, but they are doing the "right things" in terms of customer service before the fact.

We'll see how this plays out in the Spring.


Paul

[gitano]

Doesn't look like I'm going to get to shoot or work up loads for this rifle until right before the November deer season. I spoke with the stock maker yesterday, and they need the barreled action and blank right now in order to have it back to me by deer season. Three years to get a 'bespoke' rifle. Sheesh.

Paul

[gitano]

So, after considerable effort over almost a year, I was ready to ship the wood and rifle to US Gun Inletting & Stocks. Literally packing the boxes. I was thinking about making sure the company and I were on the same page regarding the EXACT specifications I wanted, and decided to have another look at their "gallery" AND their FaceBook page. Hmm...


Looking closely at the wood-to-metal fit on several of their stocks, I noticed 'rounding' of edges. The kind of rounding you see on amateur woodworking. Hmm... I started looking closer at other pieces. I noticed several with epoxy showing around the metal. Gack! I'm not gonna pay premium prices for stockmaking and have VIEWABLE epoxy wood-metal joints!

I sent the fellow I've been working with an email and asked him to commit in writing to me that there wouldn't be ANY visible epoxy on the wood-metal joints. I said if he wasn't willing to do that, I would just have the butt rough shaped and rough inletting. He responded HONESTLY. "Our foreman says he cannot guarantee that there won't be any acraglas showing in the wood-metal joints, so we should just do the rough shaping and inletting. However, we're also not going to drill the through hole." Hmm...


I told him I'd pass completely.



So, here I am back literally at 'Square 1'. I've exhausted all the stockmakers I know of. You know what that means: I'll have to do it myself. :angry: *@#$%^&!



That's sailor talk for *@#$%^&!

Paul

[gitano]

On a brighter note: Now that I'm not sending the rifle away, AND there is more than 12 hours of shooting light per day now, I WILL be taking this rifle to the range to do some load workups!





Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Keep telling ya, do the bamboo thing!

[gitano]

If I weren't involved with a serious project, I would be working on the bamboo stock. Can't do it til I get back from fishing in Missouri.

[gitano]

Beginning to feel a little snake-bit on this thing.


Seeing as how this rifle wasn't going 'off somewhere' for inletting a new stock, I was looking forward to doing some precision reloading and shooting while working up a load for it. Did my normal 'thing' and took precise measurements of the chamber, including length from breech to lands. Hmm... Kinda short.


I told the people at PacNor specifically what bullet I would be using in this rifle: The Accubond 225 with the shank seated 1 caliber deep. Since I don't have any of those 225s that aren't in either the .338 Win Mags (Ruger and Sauer) ammo, or the .338 MAI ammo,  I was going to use the Nosler 200-grain E-Tips for sighting in and load workup, of which I have "plenty".


At 1.427" nominally, the 200-grain E-Tip, while "lead free" and therefore longer than the same 200-grain lead core bullet, is still shorter than the 225-grain Accubond at 1.550". Therefore, it should 'fit' the chamber with room to spare, when seated a caliber deep. Au contraire. :frown The chamber is about 65 thousandths too short. That in itself is too much to 'live with', but it's also created another problem. Even if I wanted to seat the bullet as deep as the chamber requires, I couldn't, because the case's shoulder hits the bullet seating die's internal shoulder before the bullet can be seated that deep. :angry:  That's with the seating plunger screwed ALL the way into the die. So...
 
I've ordered/rented, a .338 throating reamer. $44.85 including shipping TO me. (A new one purchased from Pacific Tool and Gauge is $180 plus S&H.) At least I'll get it EXACTLY the way I want it for the 225-grain Accubond. Nevertheless, I'm a little disappointed that I have to wait some more to load and shoot this rifle. I'm hoping there aren't any more surprises.


Paul

[gitano]

I had to cancel the rental, as they weren't going to ship it until I was already in Missouri. However, that turned out to be a good thing because I checked Manson reamers, and they sell new, unused, throating reamers for $50. So, for $61, (including shipping), I can own it. Not that I need another reamer , but I have done business with that specific reamer rental business before, and l don't really like them. So...When I get back from fishing, the reamer will be waiting, and shortly thereafter I'll be working up loads and shooting. :D

Paul

[gitano]

Three .338 cartridges I have recently come to really appreciate.



Paul

[sakorick]

Not sure what I just read but "Gone With The Wind" comes to mind. You suffer from living in Alaska and expect it to be like Missouri and it just ain't gonna happen. What happened to the 338-06 Ackley in that line up? I'm getting 40'/sec faster speed which doesn't sound like much, however, the cases last forever and in that Mauser action the bullet chambers slick as can be. Didn't we find some 338 Accubonds while you were here?

[gitano]

If you're referring to the reamer post with your "Gone With the Wind" comments, that was back in April.

With respect to the .338-'06, I think I have a barrel for a Savage chambered for that cartridge. It's a done deal. However, the '06 case is a little long for the Mauser action. Not necessarily TOO long, but "long". In the No.1, case length is not relevant. I don't have a desire for more velocity, don't have an issue with case life in the MAI, and I am sure it won't be an issue in the Swiss or .284 cases.

I kinda don't care for Ackley cartridges any more. They cost me money. Money for powder to fireform before working up a load. Money for A LITTLE more velocity MAYBE, (depending on timing) at the cost of more powder for more velocity I don't care about. Since I'm not chasing velocities and case life isn't an issue in these smaller cases, powder usage (grains of powder per foot-pound of delivered energy - sometimes called "efficiency"), is more what I'm interested in optimizing.

The .338-'06 is a great cartridge, but I don't need its "extras", including cost, when the smaller cases do 'just fine' out to ranges I'm willing to shoot.

Paul


PS - You should go to this post http://www.forum.thehunterslife.com/index.php?topic=20892

Paul

[sakorick]

I read that one. The double set trigger Zavodi actions were chambered for magnum length bullets. I would say in a standard M98 action some rail tweaking would be in order.

[gitano]

1) Rail tweaking for the Ackley shoulder, and 2) very little room, (if any), to seat a 'long' 225g bullet, "out" due to the length of the case relative to the magazine. If I'm going to have to seat the bullet deep(er) and take up powder space, then I might as well use a shorter case.

Paul

[gitano]

Among the little things that have come up with this project is the fact that the necks on the Swiss brass, once necked up to accept a .338 caliber bullet, are so thin that they don't get sized small enough in the resizing die to grab the bullet appropriately. They're very close, but I can twist the bullets with my fingers and with a little effort, push them in or pull them out of the case. Unacceptable. Fortunately, I ordered a "bushing neck sizer" from CH4D. Unfortunately the factory-supplied bushing is too large at 0.363". Fortunately, I can make the necessary bushing on my lathe.:D It only needed to be 0.004" smaller, (0.359") to get a great bullet fit. I find it interesting that the fire-formed .284 Win brass does not have the problem. The Swiss brass is just thinner. Which is reflected in the ever-so-slightly-larger case capacity of the fire-formed Swiss cases.

On a side note, 0.359", (23/64ths), is a STANDARD DRILL SIZE! However, after attempting to use a 23/64ths drill unsuccessfully, THREE TIMES, I just 'bit the bullet' and used a boring bar followed by a 23/64ths chucking reamer. Now, like I said above, the 'bullet grab' is just about perfect. Unsuccessful attempts on the bushing were: Off center hole, out of round hole, and too large a hole. Drills of the length found in a regular drill index are just too long to make precisely-sized holes. At least by me on my gear. The boring bar and reamer did the trick.


Paul