Parker Hale unveiled

[sakorick]

Brithunter got me started on this quest....1968ish PH Suprr safari 30'06. If this thing shoots 1/2 as good as she looks......well, we'll see. For all you young'uns out there I bought this piece of art for less than you would spend on a new anything. Well, here she is.....skip line checkering, rosewood trim, Timony? trigger all original nearly 40 years old.

[m gardner]

Nice! I wish I'd looked that good at 40 years old! God bless and good shooting.

[Alboy]

I never looked that good at 25.

Yepper if you can qulify that rifle at shooting half as good as it looks you got a keeper. :D

[rockinbbar]

Nice Rifle!

Bet she puts em' where you want 'em too....

Rockin'

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

sakorick,
 
Yessir!  That is one fine example of a late '50s and '60's firearm classic!  You made a dog-gone good choice!  Thanks for sharing and good job on the pics!
 
Ol' John

[Jay Edward (deceased)]

What John said...

Whatcha gonna use for loads?

[sakorick]

What John said...

Whatcha gonna use for loads?

It will be a 150 gr Accubond with either 4350 or 4831sc whichever is most accurate  at  3000'/sec + or - a tad. Most '06s seem to like these 2  powders....what do you think?  regards, Rick.

[gitano]

bought this piece of art for less than you would spend on a new anything.

Y'know, you'll go to hell for stealin' sure as you will for lyin'. :) Good catch.
 
Paul

[sakorick]

RANGE REPORT: PH shoots good if not excellent. It was blowing about 25mph and the steady rest was unsteady as usual. 58.9gr  H4350, 150gr Nosler accubond cronied at 2920. 4 shot group....one oops!:D   Regards, Rick.

[Big Banger]

Very nice! I just bought the same rifle in .300 Win. Mag..

[Brithunter]

Wot me?............................................................................. No I is not to blame No-one saw me do it yo can't proove it and further more I plead insanity .
 
 
Nice rifle though Hmmm notice how the style was used right up into the late 1980's this P-H 1200 Super which has the same style stock and the same Gold plated "Timney" trigger (although the alloy housing has Parker-Hale cast into it my thoughts are that Timney made them for P-H) the rifle was proofed in Birmingham in 1988:-
 

 
Although the colour does not show very well, the fore tip and grip cap are both Rosewood, just not as nice as that used on Ricks' stock. Cost cutting most likely but I suppose it could be dificulty in getting well figured Rosewood .
 
Edit:-  Hmm I tried to reduce the width of the picture but for some reason if I do it does not show up .

[Big Banger]

Another nice one!
My gun has the nice rosewood, gold trigger and drop out clip. How can I find out what year it was made?

[Brithunter]

Hi Big Banger,
 
    You have a 1200 Super Clip, now look on the barrel left side of the chamber (normally) by the proof marks and you will find a small circle with 2 letters and below them a digit, that is if it was made between 1975-1984, after 1984 the circle was left out and replaced by crossed lances with the letters at 9 & 3 0'clock and the digit at 6 o'clock. If you tell me what these marks are I will compare them to the list which the Birmingham Proof house kindly sent me when I enquired about some of my rifles.

[Big Banger]

There is a very small mark without a circle next to the BNP, I will need a magnifier to see it. The serial number is MAG-35198 The complete bolt is bright metal. The gun looks just like Rick's 30'06. Thanks for your help.

[Brithunter]

Hi Bigbanger,
 
Read your message and it was a little confusing but I think I have it sorted out. The View mark for 1971 is :-
 
 
.. \ /

W /\ B
 
. / 4 \
 
The digit 4 of course just being the inspectors number, it's the letter code which gives the year. No imaginge the crossed lances spliting it through the center making the four quadrants now does that resemble your mark?
 
Edit:- Hm that's about the best I can do wth the key board, tried it without the hashes and the darned 4 moved over to the left of the page The fullstops are not part of the mark they just keep it lined up here

[Big Banger]

Yes the crossed lances form a large "X" with the "W" on the left and the "B" on the right and the "4" under the bottom. Sorry I confused you, I appreciate your information.
Mat

[Brithunter]

Glad we got it sorted. A 1971 vintage P-H 1200 Super Clip is what you have then.

[sakorick]

Glad we got it sorted. A 1971 vintage P-H 1200 Super Clip is what you have then.

AMAZING....Brithunter solves another mystery...Way to go!:D

[Espanola]

Hello Brithunter! I too have recently aquired a Parker Hale 'Safari Super' ser#213 and it has the crossed swords with: a dot at 12,  O at 9, 8(orB?) at 3 and a 2 at 6 o'clock.Could you give me a year of its manufacture? It's a 308 Norma Magnum conversion from 30-06. Glass bedded with a spacer  at rear anchor screw behind trigger-guard. Nice looking rifle, very similar to the earlier ones posted here except the cheekrest isn't as pronounced and the hand checkering isn't 'skipped', also the trigger is more of a 'C' shape. I'll post some pics soon.
Thanks,
Mel

[fish]

a buddy has its twin in .243 here in alabama.

[Brithunter]

Ob= 1963

[Espanola]

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[ATTACH]6171[/ATTACH]Here are some pics of my 1963 Parker Hale Safari Super 308 Norma Mag. Not really happy with them...plan to get some outdoor shots when I take it to the range.

[Brithunter]

Hmmm it would be nice to see the type of trigger mech they have fitted because as you said it's a much more curved blade than the later 1200's. Nice looking rifle though

[gitano]

Nice rifle Espanola. Like to see it draped over a moose or elk. :)
 
Paul

[Espanola]

Hey Gitano,
Keep an eye out around here sometime in early November for that Parker Hale - on - moose shot!:cool:

Mel

[Espanola]

Hmmm it would be nice to see the type of trigger mech they have fitted because as you said it's a much more curved blade than the later 1200's. Nice looking rifle though

Hi Brithunter,
I'll be posting some pics with the barrel assembly off the stock, I'll try to get close-ups of the trigger mech.
Mel

[Brithunter]

Thankyou. Look forward to them.

[Espanola]

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[ATTACH]6178[/ATTACH]Here are some pics of the trigger assy., close ups of the breach/receiver markings and a shot of the bedding. I also included a pic of the rear screw spacer...I believe this was installed during the bedding process or was it made by PH that way? One final Q is I noticed on the other PH 's a metal screw or lug showing on either side of the forestock...is that a different model mauser action?

[gitano]

Great pics Mel. The lug to which you refer is a recoil lug, and common on many forms of Mauser milsurps. I assume it was simply 'appropriated' by PH, bu tBH will probably know. Ditto for the pillar bedding post for the rear action screw.
 
Paul

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

    The tube spacer you refer to is standard on most Mausers and it stops the wood crushing. The Bole showing on both sides on the forestock is a recoil bolt a lot of P-Hs; have them but it could depend on the year it was made I don't know. P-H used to do a very good bedding job on their rifles  my Model 1100M for instance has an extra recoil lug brazed or solver soldered to the barrel and their is a screw which goes in it though the bottom of the fore end. The lug and right back to the action recoil lug is glass bedded and this was done at the factory, the rifle is chambered in .458 WM .

The trigger mech looks like it is the same except for the more curved blade, I have a feeling that the trigger mech itself was brought in and made by Timney for Parker-Hale although I have no proof and mine are actually marked Parker-Hale which is moulded into the alloy housing :) .

   P-H used normal commercial 98 mauser actions although there is a story that at the end of WW11 that the British forces took a load of K98 action new from the factories at repatriations which ended up in store at Golden Hillock raod in Birmingham which of course is P-H's place. These were their for many years and finally P-H asked what wa shappening wiht them. Of course the MOD had no use for them, the government dind't know they had them and couldn't care what happened to them  so P-H built rifles on them :D .

[Espanola]

Thanks for that BH.
You may notice in one of the close-ups of the trigger the casted PH made in England logo and the letters T M (Timney or is it Trade Mark?) then 98(mauser 98?) / 19....
Also the markings on the underside of the receiver intrige me...a T (sort of) an X and a 7....would these be mauser markings? I wonder where one could find out what those markings mean...perhaps they could be traced to the post war mauser actions that you mentioned?
Mel

[Big Banger]

I posted this Parker Hale 1200P 30/06 Presentation Model in another forum and it got no views in a week so I am posting it here for those of you PH guys that would like to see it. I bought it a week ago from the original owner who bought it with his first paycheck when he was 15 years old. He said he shot about 5 or 6 boxes of ammunition through it.
Mat

[sakorick]

Hello Banger. You found a beauty! It is my understanding that the P grade was a Super with the metal work and had no front sight. I don't think many were imported to the US. Does it have 5 numbers in the SN starting with 0? Regards, Rick.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

     Sorry but I have been down South since last Friday and got to go back tomorrow to return the trailer I hired to move the 1977 triumph Dolomite that had been stored down there. But this last weekend it was the Heritage fair at Bisley and I had to pop in to drop off some things for my buddy Chris to sell for me  and low and behold I picked up a rather nice P-H catalogue & price list from 1973 which has the 1200P in it :D . Right now it's still packed in the Jeep but I seem to recall that the 1200P from reading it that the presentation model could be had with or without sights. I will check on Wednesday as Tuesday is going to be a little hetic .

   Now Bigbanger that view mark you told me about has me confused the first letter needs careful looking at as there is no codes with that one liusted first that I can find. I did look but it's been a bit rushed :o  here sorry !

[Big Banger]

Hi Rick,
Thanks, yes it is a nice rifle. I put a want ad for a Parker-Hale 30/06 on another website and was offerered two of these (from different individuals). The owner of the first one decided to keep it and appologized but said he will contact me if he decides to sell it at a later date. He did some nice modifications to it and it was very nice. I am thrilled to have the one I got as it is original. There are no sights front or rear on this one. The Serial Number starts with a "P" and has five numbers beginning with a 4.
Mat
 
 
 
 

Hello Banger. You found a beauty! It is my understanding that the P grade was a Super with the metal work and had no front sight. I don't think many were imported to the US. Does it have 5 numbers in the SN starting with 0? Regards, Rick.

[Big Banger]

Hello Brithunter,
I am sorry I confused you again, thats twice now. That first letter is a "W" the second one is hard to read, at first I thought it was an "X" but with a better magnifier it looks like it could be a "B" which I assume makes it a 1971. (same code as my .300 Win Mag).
Thanks again for your help,
Mat
 
 
 

Hi All,
 
Sorry but I have been down South since last Friday and got to go back tomorrow to return the trailer I hired to move the 1977 triumph Dolomite that had been stored down there. But this last weekend it was the Heritage fair at Bisley and I had to pop in to drop off some things for my buddy Chris to sell for me and low and behold I picked up a rather nice P-H catalogue & price list from 1973 which has the 1200P in it :D . Right now it's still packed in the Jeep but I seem to recall that the 1200P from reading it that the presentation model could be had with or without sights. I will check on Wednesday as Tuesday is going to be a little hetic .
 
Now Bigbanger that view mark you told me about has me confused the first letter needs careful looking at as there is no codes with that one liusted first that I can find. I did look but it's been a bit rushed :o here sorry !

[Big Banger]

Hey Guys,
I want to put a vintage scope on that Parker-Hale 1200P, any suggestions would be appreciated.
Mat

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

Beautiful rifle thar, neighbor!

If the rifle were mine.........I would put a steel Weaver K-6(preferred) or a steel K-4.  However, the new Weaver Classics are a very good scope also.

Ol' John:D

[Rick]

For some reason, I've found that most .30-06s like 50-52 gr of IMR-4064 under a 150 gr bullet.   Start a little lower and work up, as some books show that to be a max load - although it has done fine in at least 4 rifles.   I get 5/8-inch groups with my 1903 Springfield and its original barrel...

[Big Banger]

Thanks Rick, I will try that after I get a scope on it and I will let you know the results.
Mat

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

    Now I have got home again and actualy looked at the 1200P page properly it shows that yes the 1200P did not have iron sights fitted. The confusing part was a picture of a very nicely figured stock on a 1200 Super on the facing page which of course did have iron sights. Doh!:rolleyes: .

    Right now Bigbanger,

          Yep WB makes sense, the confusing was that the code you gave me ................ well none begin with that letter . Now as to scopes  P-H were agents for Pecar-Berlin, Redfield and Nikko Sterling. If it was me I would go for the pecar 1st (well i would as I already have 3 of them ) and Redfield 2nd. The Refields listed in this catalouge are :-

Widefield 2-7x
Widefield 3-9x
Widefield 4x
Frontier 4x
Redfield 12x

   Of course this was in the UK so any early 1970's scope would really be in keeping .

   The way the advertising Blurb is written in the catalouge it's certainly aimed at the US market hence the Roll over cheek piece and skip line chequering which was not really to the British taste :) .

[Big Banger]

Well thanks again Brithunter! (Mr. Parker Hale) I put a nice old Redfield Widefield 3x9x40 with the built in range finder on a 1972 Browning BLR .308 and I like it but it would be nice to have something different on this one. I will let you know what choose.
Mat

[Brithunter]

Hmmm as for being called "Mr Parker-Hale"  it's actually frightening how much I don't know about them :o  but I am learning. It seems that my P-H stuff may now exceed that of my BSA stuff as even unknowingly I have added P-H related items to my collection like those 3 pecar scopes and I now find that P-H were also the importers and agents for Haenel Air Rifles and I have that Model 302 which is listed in this 1973 catalouge :D . I also have a couple of P-H aperture sights. One set for the P-14 or US model 1917 and a set for a Webly Mk111 air rifle.

   At the show last Sunday i was very slow as I was asked to look at and indentify then advise ona BSA sporting rifle. The first quick glance it looked like my Majestic Feather weight, then I looked more closely and noticed that the cocking piece was different  so closer inspection revealed that I was holding BSA's first sporting rifle that they designed from the ground up. Yep it was a BSA Hunter with short action chambered in .243 Win. Luckily it carried the same view mark as my Majestic which I had with me so it was a late one made in 1959 well for a hunter that is. The bluing was in very fine condition and in fact the only two small things that were against it was tha the fron sling loop had been pulled out of the fore wood and put further back. A fairly common thing as the tip of the fore end is very thin there with the schnabel tip and all and the rubber vented recoil pad had been ground down flat and a piece of leatherette stuck onto to it. Probably to reduce the LOP and the rear sight had been removed but they are available so it's not big deal.

   The dealer had not paid all that much for it as as asking about fitting a Moderator to it. I emplored him not to mess with such an oroginal rifle which although has not got a lot of value is actually a collectors rifle now. he agreed with me finally but I should have tried to do a trade as I don't have a Hunter and this was a fine looking rifle :o .

[Big Banger]

Well maybe you don't know everything but you definitely have the sources of information handy. My dad had a Parker Hale .303 British and I would like to get one  but I don't know what model he had. I was not allowed to touch it so I never had a good look at it but I do remember the it was very nice and it had the rosewood forend tip with the white binding and a large drop out clip. Any ideas what model he had? It resembled a 1200. He would have bought it new around 1967.
Mat

[Brithunter]

    Well you are lucky as by chance I noticed them in the catalouge. The action is a No4 Enfield with a new P-H manufactured barrel and new wood of similar style to the 1200, it was called the custom and whilst I do not know of any on offer I do happen to know of new one built by P-H on a No1 Mk111 action, as I had considered buying it last year and in fact saw the guy only last Sunday and he mentioned that he still had it.
 
   I used to have the next model down a Supreme and I do have a No4 sporting comversion which the only thing missing is the P-H marking. Not only that but I saw a rack of 4 Supreme grade .303 sporters for sale on Sunday  in various conditions. This evening I brought a NIB set of Low P-H 1" RALS 3 rings and in two weeks will be buying another set in 26mm high ones. he also has two one piece mount rails for the .303 sporting conversions which use these rings. it's best to grab them whilst you can now since P-H went under :o .

[Big Banger]

You are better than Google! I will see what I can find over here and let you know what I find. What catalogue did you see it in? I would like to get one myself.
Thanks Brithunter,
Mat

[Brithunter]

The catalogue I refer to is the Parker-Hale  Gun Catalogue No 73/4 which is from 1973 as the price list enclosed with it is dated June 1973. I brought it at the show and the gentleman had several others although not the same as this one and I didn't look at them. The reason I brought it was that Model 1100 delux with the beavertail fore end that i have is now positively identified. before this various dealers and even some people who worked at P-H had told it was a :-

Lightweight delux
Safari
Model 1000

    I quickly scanned through it at his stall then brought it as it had the information I was looking for even though I thought the price a little steep :o at nearly $13US. Later on I may look into getting another for a different period . I also asked him about any period BSA catalogues but ti seems that they are not so common .

[Big Banger]

I am going to try to find some of those old catalogues,
Thanks again,
Mat

[Big Banger]

Hi Guys,
I just found this Parker Hale 308 Norma Mag. I would like to know what model it is and if the engraving is original or custom? Notice that the fore end of the stock is rounded unlike the 1200 model. Any idea when it was made? 5 digit serial number beginning with 57.
Thanks,
Mat
 

The catalogue I refer to is the Parker-Hale Gun Catalogue No 73/4 which is from 1973 as the price list enclosed with it is dated June 1973. I brought it at the show and the gentleman had several others although not the same as this one and I didn't look at them. The reason I brought it was that Model 1100 delux with the beavertail fore end that i have is now positively identified. before this various dealers and even some people who worked at P-H had told it was a :-
 
Lightweight delux
Safari
Model 1000
 
I quickly scanned through it at his stall then brought it as it had the information I was looking for even though I thought the price a little steep :o at nearly $13US. Later on I may look into getting another for a different period . I also asked him about any period BSA catalogues but ti seems that they are not so common .

[gitano]

I fine rifle in an excellent chambering.
 
Paul

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

    The cast embossed floor plate and trigger guard is std on both the 1100 Deluxe and the 1200 Super although my 1200V has a smooth floor plate. Looking through the 73 catalogue the .308 Norma is not listed which onlt means that they didn't offer that chambering in 73. I will try asking about the rounded tip fore end is not un common I was looking a a P-H chambered in .270 with this stock but I am unsure whaich model it is.

   Looks like I need more catalogues for identification  they made a model called the Safari but I have never actually seen anything which identifies this model. Now as for date well to be sure we need that View mark which hopefully we can decipher and date it this gives an accurate date of manufacture as the rifles were proofed in the white for example BSA wrote me a ltter telling me my BSA CF2 Stutzen was accepted for sale in 1984 but the view mark is 1983. So there was a time lapse getting the rifle finish polished and blacked then stocked up before final inspection and acceptance for sale and then shipping. The letter which I do not have to hand just now also stipulates a month :) .

     Parker-Hale also did special runs to order I have a 1200 Super from one of these which was made for export in 1988. The rifle I ahve not found listed in any leaflets of catalogues is chambered in 7.92mm that is the marjking on the barrel but of course most of us know it as 8x57 or 8mm Mauser.

   You have a nice rifle there my friend :D .

[Big Banger]

I was told the rifle only had one box of ammo shot through it and it has never had a scope mounted on it. Do you think $600 Canadian dollars is a fair price?
Mat

[gitano]

I was told the rifle only had one box of ammo shot through it and it has never had a scope mounted on it. Do you think $600 Canadian dollars is a fair price?
Mat

Yup.
 
Paul

[Big Banger]

Thank you
 

Yup.
 
Paul

[Big Banger]

Thanks again Brithunter! I new you would find out some info on that rifle. The seller said it is Magnum Safari.
Mat

[Brithunter]

Well as I said I do not have any information for that period really, 1985 we are alking about here, I will try a locate some more P-H catalogues to help with my knowledge as and when I can . The Safari models are the most confusing to me and I am not sure I have ever seen one really in the flesh, I might have done but without positive identification from a brochure or catalogue , well you get the idea .

   I was told my 1100 Deluxe was about 3 different models by poeple who claimed to know  so after that I want company photographic proof .

[Big Banger]

Yes nothing really confirms as well as a good picture and description from the manufacturers brochure. I will post any more info that I find.
Thanks for your help,
Mat

[cowboy]

Just found this board and this thread while doing a search for "Parker Hale"
 
Hello to all,
 
I know this thread is a little old but thought you might not mind me putting in my 2 cents about PH rifles. I'm no expert on them and I don't think anyone really is. My father bought a 7mm Mag mod. 1200 in the late 60's and that is when I became interested in them.
 
Here are a few facts about them that I have gathered over the years.
 
PH did start building them on surplus mauser actions in the early days with their own stocks and barrels. These will still have the thumb slot for stripper clips and I believe that they started out calling these Super Safari models.
 
The most common ones you see now are like the ones I have with a Santa Barbara action and again their own stocks and barrels.
 
Stocks seem to vary acording to the market they were sent to. Most all the american models have the roll over cheek piece. From what I have heard most of the stocks were Italian walnut and quite light. I have seen some from the factory that were stained darker. you'll know right away if you strip them to refinish.
 
I still buy them in rebuildable/restorable condition as a hobby and I can tell you this.
 
Most if not all of them require rebedding for a couple of reasons. On most of the ones I find the wood in the stock has dried out to the point that the stock has shrunk. You can easily tell by looking at the plastic white line spacers. They don't shrink as much as the wood and now will stand out proud of the wood. If they are at this point you need to rebed. You can also check for clearance at the end of the tang to see if you can still slip a piece of paper between the end of the tang and the wood. if there is no clearance and you fire it you will possibly split the wood in this area. The original red recoil pads are dried out too and are quite stiff if not solid. The original bedding was usually a small bit of epoxy in the recoil lug area and by now is usually dried out and cracked/brittle.
 
All of the ones I have worked on have some fore end pressure and after rebedding I put it back.
 
I don't know what or who they used to determine the length of pull but the stock is way too long for most. I usually cut 3/8" off before I install a new pad.
 
Rebed them and they are tack drivers for sure. Parker Hale barrels are great.
 
Quality over the years did vary and some are better then others as far as fit and finish, but they all shoot very well regardless.
 
I have other rifles, but I hunt with the PHs

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

     Well you are right on some of it  P-H produced quite a few models over the years and used actions from several sources including some German new WW2 actions seized as war repartions. Which the governement dumped in store at Golden Hillock road and it seems promtly forgot abouth them until P-H having a clear out rediscovered them and ask the ministry what they wanted done with htem. he government had no interst so P-H built rifles on them

    The 1200 Super, 1200V and 1200 Super Clip all had the Monte Carlo roll over stock with Skip Line chequering and they were available wiht either an Oiled finish or high gloss. The High Gloss it seems was more popular in the US. The 1100 also came in two stock styles the Deluxe with the fluted beavertail and the other of more convetional style with a schnabel tip. The stocks it seems came from SILE in Italy. I have fpound seveal with the SILE mark inpressed  under the recoil pad of in the barrel channel.

    As for bedding problems I have come across one and that ths the late production NIB 1200 Super in 7.92mm whihc I had rebedded. None of the others have required any. How ever after playing wiht more ammo with the 1200V in the grouping does not tighten up to where I think it should (this is the only one with a free floating barrel ) the bedding may fall under close scutiny .

   If the bedding at the recoil lug is correct then spliting at the tang is virtually impossible unles the stock bends a lot . Which is why P-H put an extra recoil lug on the barel of the 1100M African Magnum. Only the 120TX and 1200V came free floated from the factory.

   The so called Safari models are proving the most elusive :o  despite the name beign bandied about I have yet to see it in print ina  P-H catalogue of leaflet. This is why I am trying to collet as many different years of them as I can as relying on the so called experts and even ex-employees has proved very unreliable :o .

   Oh the Santa barbrara action normally have SPAIN on the side of the tang, although it can be very faint as it's applied before final polish for blacking. The  1200 does not have the thumb cut as far as I can tell the 1100 can have. My 1100M has it but my 1100 deluxe does not. I will be on the look out for a good model 1000 lightweight and a 1100 std if there is such a thing. then we get into the Midlands made by P-H and the earlier models like the Hussar and the Safaris, Super Safari and Safari magnums if they indeed exist as official models. The Hussar does as I have seen photos of one . The Hussar is built on a Brno action.

[cowboy]

Brithunter,
 
Nice of you to reply. It's getting harder to find any information on PHs these days. They aren't really getting much interest here, though it seems that there are some who are becoming aware of these rifles lately. Frankly I was surprised to find this thread as not many show interest as I said. I have been working on mostly 1200 magnum models with the recoil cross bolt and I have been buying them from various places across the US. I live in the desert Southwest and perhaps that may account for the dried out stocks I am finding. I did buy one from "back east" N. Carolina last year that still had some shrinkage. The recoil cross bolt is a bit of a chore to rebed properly.
 
You're right about the recoil lug preventing the tang area from spliting if it is bedded right.
But wooden stocks do flex especially with the larger calibers, which is the reason for the cross bolt being there. The spliting I'm talking about is not total failure but more like little chips coming off at the tang from lack of clearance, mostly cosmetic. I have a 1200 presentation model in 300 Win Mag I'm working on that did exactly this but I was able to glue the small chip back in place and sand it out.
 
I was wondering if perhaps you might know of any place that has parts for PHs?
They are getting harder to find over here. Things like Magazine boxes, etc.
 
All the best,
 
Cowboy

[Brithunter]

Hi cowboy,


Well I have just been looking at photos of a couple of my P-H rifles. The 1100 Deluxe in .30-06 has the Recoil bolt as does my 1200 Super in 7.92mm but the 1200V in 6mm Rem does not. I can only draw the conclusion from this that the heavier cartridges get the recoil bolt whilst the lighter cartridges do not .

The P-H stuff was auctioned off so it got pretty much split up. However one or two places did buy quite a stock. I am waiting to here from a guy called Bill about a stock for a P-H as I know they brought up a largish quantity of P-H stuff and this Bill worked there for 25 years or so.


Now what cartridge do you want a magazine for?

Although I cannot promise results. I will keep my ears and eyes open for you .

Now as to the recoil pads and the stocks shrinking I think it must be the heat and dryness. As I have not seen the problems here although the oldest P-H rifle I have is 1970 unlike the BSA's which go back to 1951 ish and 1959 for certain . The 1959 vintage one is the Majestic Featherweight Deluxe which chambered in 270 Win weighs 6 1/4lbs. The stock is fine as is the bedding .

[sakorick]

Greetings Cowboy and hello all. PH, Cowboy is right on in regards to the shrinking problem and the bedding issues. The 1968 versionI have has not demonstrated these problems, however, the PH stock I am currently working on has been a chore to say the least. Also, the pad on the stock I'm working on has been changed which probably means it was crushed. The pad on my '06 is in excellent condition. Sako also had a problem with their pads crushing on the old Bofors guns. I store all mine (with pads)upsidedown in the safe. I'm not sure where they got the wood but it is definitely European and all the older Supers had the blonde colored stocks ala Sako Deluxe. The trigger I got from England looks just like the pics above except it has a conventional curve as does my Super which is gold.
 
I am having some problems with the rosewood taking tru oil as the stock was very very dry. I also had cracks at the rear of the action which was repaired when I bedded the thing. I suspect the stock had a large caliber of some sort most of it's life. I plan on getting the thing together soon for test firing.....the caliber by the way is 6mm-284 on a Mod98 action, PH trigger, Wilson barrel, Pachmayr pad, skipline checkering etc. Here is a pic of the work in progress. Notice, I added a shadow line to the cheek piece which took about 2 days but was worth the effort. I also floated the barrel and added the standard Mauser rear screw Pilar which should fix any future cracking problems. This stock did not have the pilar installed! Many Mausers converted to a sporter did not include the pilar....bad mistake! Regards, Rick

[cowboy]

Hello all,
 
Brithunter, I would be interested in a trigger guard/magazines in 300 Win Mag which should be the same length as 30-06. As you know most of the 1200 supers had a aluminum magazine which was anodized black. They turn almost purple over time. I have posted an image of a PH part which fits but is in steel.
 
http://www.fsbore.com/942120.jpg
 
I also would be interested in any rollover 1200 stocks in usable/repairable condition. :)
 
Sakorick, I know what you mean about finishing those rosewood tips. I have tried several things to fix the problem. Try wiping them with laquer thinner and immediatly after drying apply the oil. Be careful not to let any touch the whiteline spacer as it will melt, The problem with rosewood is it is so oily to begin with. You could also try applying something else first to fill in what few pores this wood has such as epoxy thinned 50% with mineral spirits and letting it soak in. After drying sand to finish level and apply the oil. I use acraglas original, the thin kind.
 
 
All the best,
 
Cowboy
 
PS here is a photo of my father with a PH 300 Win mag and his Elk from 2 yrs ago. You can see the blonde stock.
 
http://www.fsbore.com/elk3.jpg

[Mauserfan in TX]

Well There Cowboy, I bet your dad was a pretty happy camper that day.

[cowboy]

Mauserfan,
 
At 82 he was like a kid at Christmas! :)
 
All the best,
 
Cowboy

[Brithunter]

Hi Guys,

    My thoughts on the light colured wood is that it was related to price. The darker wood being more popular in the US was priced a little higher and the US makers having more volume got the better deal. It was that or either that the buyer at P-H liked the light colured wood? We will likely never know the truth of the matter.

    Now have either of you come across the Parker-Hale M81 Classic model? As it suggests it was introduced in 1981 and had better Selected Walnut which was much .................... much better figured that the normal P-H stocks. It had no Rose wood tip and a more rounded stock shape :) . It came in Magnum claibres as well. I looked at a M81 Classic in 7mm Rem Mag but brought the Ruger No1 in .300WM instead at that time as it was the same price but had a Leupold 2.5-8 Vari X111 scope on it. That scope is now on the P-H 1200 Super 7.92mm :D .
 
   This is another model that I will try to get one day .

   Now I have not come across the pad problem and just pulling the stock off my 1100 Deluxe in 30-06 it has the rear steel stock piller I think if it's missing it was lost by some previous owner . The 30-06 mag and trigger guard is marker 98/124 and is alloy. The one on my 1100m is steel and a trye magnum langth but not having it t hand I cannot tell you the part number.

          Ahh I read somewhere that Rosewood has a natural Oil in it which prevents the drying of other finishes. To get around it the Rosewood needs to be sealed but something like a synthetic varnish or the clear part of the bedding compoud. when dry it's sanded back leaving the pores filled then the finish is applied to the whole stock. This came from the NRA Gunsmithing guide if I remember correctly.

[cowboy]

Hello all,
 
I have not seen any really dark walnut on any PH, only some that were darker than what they normally have.
 
Brithunter, it sounds like the magazine that fits your 1100m if it's steel, not cast,would be just what I'm looking for if you can get it over there. :)
 
Please let me know.
 
All the best,
 
Cowboy

[Big Banger]

Hi Cowboy,
The stock on my PH 1200P is darker than most PH rifles, it is apparently deluxe French walnut. Does your 300 magnum have a dark stock?
Mat  

[cowboy]

hello all,
 
I have 2 1200s that have fairly dark stocks. One is a presentation model and the other is a 1200 super.
 
 
This is the presentation model and the original photo from the guy I bought it from. It's actually a bit darker than this photo shows in this red background. Hope you can see the photo as I'm trying this attachment function here.
 
 
All the best,
 
cowboy

[Big Banger]

Nice rifle Cowboy! The rosewood appears to be rather light compared to the walnut, looks good! Have you seen many Presentation models in your area? I have only seen two so far here in Canada.
Mat

[sakorick]

Hey Cowboy, is that an old Redfield 3-9 on your PH? Nice looking rig. Regards, Rick.

[cowboy]

Hello all,
 
I haven't seen but a couple of presentation models and only one in 300 win mag.... so I bought it.
 
The photo is the original one that the guy I bought it from sent me. I made a deal for the rifle without the scope on it because I didn't need the scope at the time. But yes. it was an old Redfield.
 
Since I bought it I have replaced the red recoil pad which was solid rubber by the way and very heavy. Cut 3/8" off the stockand replaced with a black Decelerator and no white line spacer. So far thats as far as I have gone with this one. I need to finish another 1200 Super which is down to doing the final sanding and finish before it's done. I'm a little behind but I like doing the work and you can't hurry anyway.
 
This presentation model does have rosewood that is lighter than usual on it and it almost seems like someone matched it up to the stock wood at the factory. It really is nice and the photo does not do it justice. I'm really looking forward to refinishing this one, it should be really nice. The engraving on it is really nice too.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,
 
   Rosewood varies in it's colouration almost as much as walnut does . I will have to photograph my 1100M as it has a dark reddish coloured stock .
 
   Now to make you guys weep. The only 1200P I ahve seen is one that an older guy at the club recently broung and it shooting the heck out of. As it wanders off target as he shoots it like a darned machine gun (yep a box of 20 last about 5 minutes at most) the POI wanders up the target due to severe heat built up. It's a 30-06 and he is using some steel cases stuff which has a huge ball of flame at the muzzle so he is going to have the barrel choped and threaded for a sound moderator (silencer) .
 
   I will try and suggest that he sell it and get a heavy barreled model of something to shoot the heck out of, but I don't hold mush hope as he appears to be a bit of a pratt . He didn't pay an awful lot for it but I cannot afford to offer to buy it off him as I have no money to do so :o .
 
   Ahh talking of older scopes I just got my Birthday present. We picked it up on Saturday, it's a Pecar Berlin Champion 4x35 scope. Photos once I can get round to them . It should compliment a P-H or period BSA well. P-H especially as they of course were the importers and agents for pecar .

[Big Banger]

Well Brithunter you didn't make me weep but i'm still shaking my head! :frown

[Jay Edward (deceased)]

I went and captured a picture of the Percar Berlin scope for all those who are interested in BH's birthday present.

[Brithunter]

Thanks Jay,

   I have posted a new thread with photos of the scope!

   Big Banger ,
 
      I to am shaking my head, I will see what can be done but I doubt much even though he seems to know that the 1200P was alimited model with some collector appeal.

[cowboy]

Brithunter,
 
Finally got round to taking a close look at the proof marks for the 1200 Super i'm currently working on. Can you tell me what year it is?
 
It has the letter T at 9:00 and the letter B at 3:00 and the number 2 at 6:00 with just the crossed swords no circle around it. Late model after 1984?
 
I really need to get the presentation model out and look at it as thats the one I would really like to know about. :)
 
Thanks,
 
All the best,
 
Cowboy
 
PS - Happy Birthday!

[Big Banger]

That is nice birthday present Brithunter, I only got a Marlin 45/70 and a card
Happy Birthday!

[Brithunter]

Thank you for the birthday wishes. The rifle was made in 1968.

[cowboy]

Thanks Brithunter,
 
I was a bit surprised to learn it was a 1968 model, it's in very good condition. I was a bit confused about your discription of the circle around the marks.
 
Thanks again,
 
cowboy

[Brithunter]

Hmm OK I will try to take a photo of the Circle mark but ti means taking a stock off a rifle and getting it out of the cabinet. Hmm time is the problem right now as I have lots to do here. Sigh.

[cowboy]

Brithunter,
 
Absolutly no rush at all, whenever you get round to it is OK by me.
 
Or as the Aussies say, No worries mate! :)
 
cowboy

[Big Banger]

Hi Rick,
Here are a few pictures of the PH 1200 Super Clip 7mm Mag that I received in the mail today :D .
Mat

[sakorick]

First one I've ever seen. Looks really nice....is the front sight cover missing? If it is. Brithunter may be able to locate one for you. Regards, Rick.

[Big Banger]

Hi Rick,
Yes the front sight hood is missing, I would like to put one back on. I will have to take it apart now to get the date code.
Mat

[Big Banger]

The date code on this 7mm Mag does not have the crossed lances like the other 1200's posted here. This date code has a circle with the letter "E" at 9 O'clock, the letter "B" at 3 O'clock and the number "3" at 6 O'clock. Maybe if Brithunter has the time he can let us know what year it was made.
Mat

[cowboy]

Nice rifle Big Banger! And in a great caliber too.
 
How does the clip release?
 
I too have been checking the date codes on mine. from the last 2 I have one with T - B and one with W - B.
 
TB = 1968
 
WB= 1971
 
Working backward yours would be 1953??? I don't think so, we need Brithunter for sure.
I think that having the circle means something else as oposed to those without the circle.
Both of the ones I checked don't have the circle.
 
 
Cowboy

[Big Banger]

Hello Cowboy,
The clip releases the same way you would open the floor plate with the button in the trigger guard.
 
I don't about the circle either. If I remember correctly I think Brithunter said the BSA rifles used a circle? This rifle has Parker Hale stamped everywhere. My two other 1200's have the crossed lances.
 
The checkering on this rifle seems to be cut deeper and is sharper, it has a much better grip.
 
Mat

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

Ahh so there is some confusion . Well the circle marks was used by the Birmingham Proof house from 1975-1984. EB in a circle is 1979. The Birmingham View mark dates back only to 1921 so rifles older than that we are stuck on .

Sorry but the only P-H fore sights hoods I have are the two that came on rifles, the 1100M has one as does the 1200 Super in 7.92 because that was NIB. I have removed it for use as I don't like them. I would also remove the one off the 1100M but cannot as it locates the fore sight on that model .

I will ask about and se if I cannot locate some however be advised that the design as on the BSA rifles changed slightly over the years. Early P-H and BSA hoods were more shaped and had a squarer profile that the late one which are rounded .


Hi Big Banger,
 
Hmm Air Mail to BC seems slow you should ave recieved that pad by now I would have thought. Perhaps it's the tightened security measures slowing things down. I know letters only take about 3-4 days perhaps a small packet takes longer . Now the BSA confusion is that I said that both BSA & P-H used the Birmingham proof house so can be dated this way . I have seen and actually shot one 1200 SC rifle. It belongs to a guy called Pat who is a member of the club I used to shoot with.

   Oh I just checked both my 1200's and the chequering on them is about the same depth however the 1200V looks shallower but it's just the High Gloss finish which the factory applied, the 1200 Super has an oiled finish.

[Big Banger]

Hello Brithunter,
Thanks for solving this one :D. What is your opinion on the low serial number with the 1979 date code? Maybe the barrel was changed?
 
I expect to receive the pad next week, I will let you as soon as it arrives. Air Mail to Canada then Eskimo and dog sled to B.C. takes awhile you know.
Mat  

[Big Banger]

Here is a picture of my '71 Parker Hale 1200 Super Clip .300 Win Mag for those of you who are interested.
Mat

[Brithunter]

Hi Mat,

    This is only a theory of mine but I suspect that P-H used a different serial number range for the new model (1200C) for example my 1100M has a 4 digit serial number 1699 (notice no prefix) and this rifle was made in 1981. P-H also used  actions from a couple at least of suppliers. Late production seems to be (from my sample of 3 rifles being 1 x 1100 & 2 x 1200 so only a small sample ) from Santa Barbra in Spain but for the model Hussar which I had never heard of but now have a photo of one used a Brno action and rumour has it that some were built on German Actions siezed from the German factories at the close of WW2 and held in storage at  Golden Hillock Road.

   When you have the stocks off some time look closely at the side of the tang of the action this is where Spain is normally stamped. On two of mine it's barely readable being applied before the action was finished and the final polish has all but removed it, on the other it's legible, now how much finishing was left to do again I don't know :o  it's another of those things I would like to find out about .

    Ahhhh looking at the different serial numbers on my rifles I notice that the 1970 made 6mm 1200V has a high serial number P38302 whilst the 1200 7.92mm rifle made in 1988 is B06231 and the 1100 in .30-06 made in 1984 is S17008.

  Looking at them and the date of manufacture it seems logical that they restarted the serial number range  unless and this is the fly in the ointment  that the export special order 7.92mm and other special exports had their own number range and that the model 1100 had a different serial number range to the 1200's . However seeing as the action of the 1200 Super and 1100 is identical it would seem logical to machine and finish them as a "standard" numbering them as they go through production then fitting the barrel, sights & stock etc for each model requirement.

  The 1200C is different due to the drop out magazine and although I have never examined them closely I am assuming that the machining of the action is lightly different. I also believe that the 1200C led to the P-H Scout rifle which has a 10 round drop mag Laminated wood stock and a muzzle break as std and was offered in .243 and .308 only, it was meant to appeal to the Practical crowd after the ban of semi auto rifles in the UK. Hmm that's another model to add to the wish list :o .

[Big Banger]

Hi Brithunter,
Interesting theory, I guess we will never know for sure.

If you want some pictures of the clip assembly I will take it apart and post some.
Thanks again,
Mat

[Brithunter]

Hi Mat,

    Thanks for the offer but it's not necessary as I will one day no doubt aquire one.

    In fact I may even try doing a little official trading in them and other classic Stalking rifles and optics next year once I get the workshop sorted but this requires more legal hoops so will take a little while to get sorted out. Probably go to the lower end auctions with a dealer friend and pick up some reasonable cost  ones then carefully check them over and test them. And finally advertise them at a small profit. Nothing major but hopefully it will suppliment my meagre income and allow me to be at hand at home should I be needed like last week when Mother fell in the garden and could not get up. Which of course in the reason I  moved up here last year but I thought I would have least been able to get a Part time job, however this has not prooved to be the case.

[cowboy]

Hello all,
 
Here are a few photos of a work in progress. It's a 1968 PH 1200 Super.
This is the darkest stock of all the PHs I have. The second darkest is my 1971 1200P.
 
In these photos I am at the point of having the bedding completly done, the stock shortened 3/8" and decelerator pad installed. It still has the factory gloss finish from PH.
 
If you look closely you can see where I have sanded the finish off around the recoil cross bolt as I had to work on the wood around it. In the last photo you can see the bedding and what you won't see is the recoil cross bolt.
 
I replace the original bolt with a regular threaded bolt with the head removed and I just use the 2 "donuts" that are on the ends of the original cross bolt after I polish and reblue them. I then bed the whole thing into the bedding epoxy. I do this so I can lengthen the width to bring the 2 "donuts" out to be more flush with the stock on the outside. It just looks better to me. I also think that it makes the bedding stronger and more consistant as there is now a thicker portion of epoxy over where the top of the original cross bolt used to be.
 
You can also see where I have filled in and squared off the section of stock between the trigger cut out and the magazine cut out. The PH magazine/trigger guard does not have the original military 98 floor plate release, but the stocks are releaved for them. This also adds stength to this area as this is where the stock can sometimes split. This is also where they add a second recoil cross bolt on the big bores for that reason.
 
There you have it. It does take some time but I enjoy the work and the payoff in the end!
 

 
Cowboy

[Brithunter]

Hi Cowboy,

    Why shorten the wood when a thinner recoil pad could be used? then you can always put the original pad back on and have the rifle in it's original configuration . Sorry but I don't understand why you take out the recoil bolt and use a std bolt  the recoil bolt is shaped to take the action and lug and it's top suface sets the height of the action in the stock .

   The stock on my 1200V is a might long with the std thick pad so I have got a thinner pad for it which is waiting to be shaped to fit. As I do not have the required tools to fit it as I would like I will get a local skilled gunsmith to do so for me. It will have to wait for a few weeks as he is really busy sorting out game shooters shotguns for the upcoming Pheasent season.

    And yes P-H did use two recoil bolts on the 1100M African Magnum, could not remember for sure so went and looked :o :D  but I do recall they also added a recoil lug to the barrel and that is glass bedded and there is a screw in the bottom of the fore arm. My rifle has a chequered panel under the fore arm which I had added for a sure grip. My local gunsmith were I brought the rifle from did the panel by hand for me so this rifle is no longer standard :o .

[cowboy]

Hello Brithunter,
 
Well, let's see if I can answer your qustions. I'm not much of a writer so I am just going to type it out and see what comes out. Recoil pad, I like 1" thick pads because they are comfortable to shoot. :) I had to remove the wood to have a 1 inch pad and shorten the LOP at the same time.
 
I have not actually seen a PH with a second recoil lug/bolt so I don't know where they put them. I have seen other manufacturers all put them where I reinforce the stock. I know that on the really large loudenboomer magnums that they put a second recoil lug on the barrel, don't they?
 
I take the original recoil bolt out for 2 reasons. The first is just cosmetic. In the photo of the 1200 below, which by the way is not one of mine. I swiped the photo off of the internet. You can see clearly that the threaded "donut" at the end of the recoil bolt itself is quite recessed into the side of the stock. By using a threaded rod instead of the original recoil bolt, I can adjust the width of the entire assembly to the width of the stock and bring it flush or almost flush with the sides. I just think it looks nicer.
 
On this particular 1200, PH used an original military cross bolt which only has 1 "donut" on one end, the other being just a bolt head. This is the only one like this that I have seen as all the other 1200s used a cross bolt with a "donut" on each end.
 
The second reason is that the only proper way to epoxy bed with the original cross bolt is remove some wood behind and below the cross bolt so that it can be encased on at least 2 sides to fully bed and support the cross bolt itself. I would rather not remove too much wood in this area as it already is pretty thin. The flat of the metal cross bolt would never really mate up to the metal flat of the action any way as the only way 2 pieces of metal match up to each other is to have them paralel ground. So the action is really bedded on the epoxy any way.
 
I use 3 types of epoxy when I bed a PH. Acraglas original which is very thin and runny, acraglas gel which is thick and pro-bed 2000 which is in between. The actual bed is pro-bed 2000.
 
I use the gel because it is soft even when dry and can be easily removed. The runny kind gets to coat the areas that aren't acully bedded to seal the inside of the stock. I paint it on with a brush. I use pro-bed 2000 for the actual bedding. Brownells.
 
If we take a stock and label the forend tip in the barrel channel as A and under the recoil lug as B and under the end of the magazine box, just forward of the tang as C.
 
Setting the height of the action in the stock to match original.
 
Step 1, sand out the rise in the barrel channel at A that sets the forend upward pressure on the barrel until just a thin strip of paper will slide under the barrel completly. At this point the action is only making contact at B and C with the barrel fully free floating.
 
Step 2, put a small pad of bedding with the gel at A to index the barrel with no forend pressure at all. At this point the action is sitting evenly at A,B and C with no pressure.
 
Step 3, again putting only small pads of gel at C on both sides of the stock to index the action from tipping either way. At this point the action is sitting at all 3 points with no pressure but C has 2 pads left and right to keep the action from tipping.
 
Step 4, remove wood under recoil lug area at B to acomadate epoxy to at least 1/8" so its not too thin under the recoil lug area. At this point the action is sitting on just A and C with no pressure. Bed recoil lug area B with Pro-bed 2000 or your choice. I tape the front and sides of the recoil lug so that only the back of the lug is bare.
 
Step 5, remove index pads of gel at C and remove wood to bed C. Bed C with pro-bed.
 
Step 6, remove index pads at A. At this point the action is bedded at B and C at its original height with no pressure or stress and the barrel is again free floating.
 
Step 6, optional, insert shims under barrel at A and using a trigger pull gauge adjust thickness of shims to pull out when trigger pull gayge reads 5# or your choice. Bed with pro-bed at A with shims in place.
 
Aghh! Done........
 
I know that some of what I said was as clear as mud, I'm trying to hurry as I have an appointment, so feel free to ask what the heck I was saying.
 

 
Cowboy

[sakorick]

My Super is a darn nice rifle but pales into insignificance when compared to the Sakos of the same era. I have been working on a Super stock for so long that it makes me ill. The PH's were good and they were also very bad.....I don't know where they got their Walnut but it's clearly inferior in the durability department. Still dollar for dollar a nice piece of hardware. Regards, Rick.

[cowboy]

Hi Sakorick and all,
 
Actually I would agree with you on almost all of it. The PHs they sent here where never a high end gun. But like you said, dollar for dollar they are great.
 
I happen to be a big Model 98 fan which endears me to them. But mausers purists will sometimes look down on the Santa Barbaras as not being as good as say an FN 98.
 
Having owned and handled quite a few PHs I must say that one has to look at each one as an individual piece. I have seen some that I wouldn't buy that the fit and finish were really bad. If the action dosn't cycle smoothly or has a hang up no way. I did buy one that was like this, Once. The other thing that you see is discoloration on the bolt, especially the handle. I had to blue the handle on that one as it would not polish out. And it took a lot of hand filing and polishing to smooth up the action and then it needed to be reblued.
 
I'm pretty choosy now about which ones I'm willing to put the work into. I also never buy one that is not original as I hate to try to fix someone elses mistakes.
 
However having said all that.....
 
It's a model 98 and I really like them. Parker hale barrels are great. Properly bedded they shoot extremely well. I have some that shoot sub MOA. The stock configuration just happens to fit me just right when I shorten the LOP a little which really makes all the differance to me in felt recoil. I also really like the palm swell as it does work to fill your hand. With the aluminum trigger guard/magazine they are lighter which makes carrying them on the hunt easier.
 
It is a lot of work to restore a PH, sometimes. I tend to work in spurts so that I don't get burned out. They are more than worth it in the end.
 
I'm actually glad they aren't more popular because the prices would rise and I wouldn't have as good a selection to buy at reasonable prices. :D
 
Best of luck on finishing yours Sakorick. I think you will like it better when it's done.
 
Cowboy

[sakorick]

Speaking of Mod98 actions, I rate the Oberndorf's as tops. I have never handled one that wasn't like glass. I have no preference with the FN vs Santa Barbra, however, I would give the nod to the older Zastavas over these two. I also like the La Coronas and 1943 and earlier K98's. The Lowe small ring actions made in Berlin were especially nice in the 95's.....many of these went to South America. I have a Turk large ring that is good too.
 
Now, having reread this mumbo jumbo, I guess I like them all!:D Regards, Rick. OBTW, my Mod98 Preduzece is as smooth as the Oberndorfs!:D :D :D
 
Sidebar....Has anyone touched a new Remington 798?????

[Brithunter]

Hi Guys,

   Well P-H quality varied a couple of times during their history, usually during take overs  before Modular industries under the Bremmner banner owned them it was an investment house. Well you can guess .

    Their stocks came from SILE in italy .

  Oh Rick the Turks are Obendorfs as Mauser completed the whole order despite the fact that Lowe was supposed to help make them and got their share of the payment but actually made none of them . For real high end rifles P-H sent them to Rigby's to be finished . I have seen a couple and was told where one was for sale for reasonable money but of course I was flat broke :o  Oh well perhaps another time.

[sakorick]

Hi Guys,

Well P-H quality varied a couple of times during their history, usually during take overs before Modular industries under the Bremmner banner owned them it was an investment house. Well you can guess .

Their stocks came from SILE in italy .

Oh Rick the Turks are Obendorfs as Mauser completed the whole order despite the fact that Lowe was supposed to help make them and got their share of the payment but actually made none of them . For real high end rifles P-H sent them to Rigby's to be finished . I have seen a couple and was told where one was for sale for reasonable money but of course I was flat broke :o Oh well perhaps another time.

Very interesting.....I wonder why the Turks are considered inferior???? If they are indeed Oberndorfs, thet should be the most desireable IMHO. I just love the Oberndorf mark on a Mauser action. The PH's are terrific......but methinks they altered some things! More later and regards, Rick.

[Brithunter]

Hi Rick,

    May I suggest you do yourslf a favor and hunt down this book :-

"Original Obendorf Sporting Rifles"

 Authors Speed, Schmid and Hermann. Published by Collector grade Publications.

ISBN 0-88935-230-5.

  OK it's not cheap but the information about Mauser, the brothers Paul & Wilhelm and the history of the factory including how Lowe got control. Just how badly Mauser was treated by the German (Prussian biased) governmet are real eye openers .

   I traces the history of the Turkish contract and has some very good archive photos from this era including prints from original Mauser drawings and spec sheets .

   I brought the book several years ago after I aquired what was supposed to be an Original Mauser sporter, turns out is was a sporterised mauser but we could not trace the make so it was later sold  whilst a very nice rifle it was not what I wanted. Oh it was in .375 2 1/4" RNE (9.5x57mm) and had a Khales scope in claw mounts on it.

  Did you know that mauser built an entire building to house the Turkish inspection and acceptance team? which they called the Turkbau. They also built another building to make the first shipment of the Swedish Mauser called the Swedebau if memory serves me correctly. These trial runs were the only other production apart for the turkish contract that mauser did all other orders were made by Lowe and Spandau.

[ms96tears]

Hello; I just wanted to share a few photos of a rifle that I obtained from my father a few years ago. I am not sure what year or model it is. The markings on the barrel are....Parker Hale, Birmingham England.....Imported  Jana, Denver Col. and the caliber is 25-06. It has a serial number beginning with R-. and two different markings with BNP under a crown. The action is a little loose and the safety doesn't work, but it has a very tight group at 100 meters or so. If anyone can give me a good guess as to how old it is and the model type, I would appriciate it greatly.

[gitano]

how old it is and the model type,

Brithunter can probably help you there. I just wanted to point out that many Mauser actions appear "loose" with the bolt open. It's neither a sign of wear or weakness.
 
Paul

[Big Banger]

Nice rifle! If you go to page 2 of this thread Brithunter describes how to find the date code.
Mat

[ms96tears]

Thanks Guys

[sakorick]

Hello MS96. Your rifle is a Super Safari made about 1968. I would need the SN....my guess it has 4 or 5 digits. These were made for export to the US and are probably among the nicest PH's ever made. You have a beauty and should have that safety fixed....it's probably something very simple....I wauld start by soaking it in breakfree. As a side bar, I would say that is a rare rifle as most of these came in 30'06, 270 and 7Mag. Yours is the first 25'06 I have ever seen. Regards, Rick.

[ms96tears]

Rick, ( sakorick )  Thanks for that info. I'll try soaking it.  I have been reading all the posts here and it seems that no one else has mentioned a 25-06 cal. I understand that it's not an uncommon caliber over seas. Anyway, I enjoy the rifle and I don't let it sit in the safe. Thanks again........Mike

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

The rifle appears to be a 1200 Super and as SakoRick suggested to date it you need to look at the Private view mark which is part of the proof marks from Birmingham. All the photos of Super Safaris that I have seen the rifle has the mode engraved into the left side wall of the action. For soem reason the 1200 Supers do not have this but one thing they do have is the Gold Plated Triggers.


Also I have never noticed many if any 25-06's but then again I have never really looked for them. I will keep an eye and ear open for them as well as asking about. It's not a very popular cartridge here in the UK.
 

The trigger unit is a P-H one the TM is for trade mark. Who designed the unit I do not know it looks a lot like the Timmney one but who produced them first I have no idea. Does anyone know how long Tmmney have been making them?

 

[Paul Hoskins]

Congrat's. Rick, really pretty outfit and a shooter to boot. Nice find. I never have that kind of luck. Wondering what the scope is? Reminds me of the BSA on my air rifle. ...........Paul H

[sakorick]

Hello PH. The scope is a 4-14-50 Nikon since switched to nothing as I retired the rifle....doomed as a safe Queen. Scope was very heavy....long gone. This thread must be over 2 years old now but people still seem to find it. Parker Hales like Sakos are tough to research. Regards, Rick.

[Big Banger]

Hi Guys,
I thought I would share a few pictures of a couple Parker Hale .303 rifles that I recently purchased. The first one (without a scope) is a converted Lee Enfield No. 1 Mk. III with a 5 round clip. The date code is VB = 1970. The second is a converted No. 4 Mk. 1 that was originally made at the Long Branch factory in Ontario, Canada. This rifle has the Parker Hale A.29 scope mount and RAHS.3 scope rings. The date code is UB = 1969. I believe this rifle should have had a 5 round clip as well but I got it with a 10 round clip. Both rifles have had little use since being converted and are in very nice condition. My dad bought a Parker Hale .303 either a No. 1 or No. 4 (I will probably never know) new in the late sixties or early seventies. It was the only hunting rifle he owned, he sold it in 1980.
Mat

[sakorick]

Hello BB'r. I had no idea PH made sporters out of MILSURP Enfields. They are beautiful. I sure would like to get my hands on one....where did you find them?? Regards, Rick.

[Big Banger]

Hi Rick,
I found the No. 1 on a Canadian website Gunnutz and I found the No. 4 at a huge gunshow in Kamloops, B.C. yesterday. I am very happy to have them. I did find one recently on a USA website, I will try to find it again and I will let you know.  
Regards,
Mat
 

Hello BB'r. I had no idea PH made sporters out of MILSURP Enfields. They are beautiful. I sure would like to get my hands on one....where did you find them?? Regards, Rick.

[Paul Hoskins]

Matt, I never cared for Enfields but those are really nice. I wouldn't mind having one of those sitting in the corner of the gun room............Paul H

[Big Banger]

Hi Paul,
Parker Hale did a very nice job converting these old rifles, I am very happy to have them.
Regards,
Mat

[Big Banger]

I recently found an article called "The Ultimate Lee Enfield" With only changing the barrel and making a custom clip these old .303's can be converted into a 45/70 and the Enfield action is strong enough to handle Full Loads.
Interesting?
Mat

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

    Parker-Hale did a lot of these conversions using both the earlier Smle No1 and the later No4's. Their conversions were available is sevaeral grades with the top being the Custom then there was the Supreme then the Deluxe and then the std. Parker-Hale did these conversions for about 30 years or so and were still doing them well into the 1970's and possibly even later.

    There were another couple of firms in the UK also doing similar work. Collins Bros and London Armoury co were alos active in this field. At least Parker-Hale marked theirs unlike the other firms. The ones I have had shot rather well although the jury is still out on the No4 conversion that I have at present I guess I will have to scope it to really check it out properly.

    Nice rifles :smiley: .

[Big Banger]

Hi Guys,
I bought another Parker Hale rifle last week, this one is a Safari African Magnum .458 Win Mag. Date code ZB = 1974. It is in very nice condition and has had little use. The action is designed to handle .375 H&H length rounds and with a little reaming this could easily shoot .458 Lott. There is a rubber block in the front of the magazine to take up the space not needed for the .458 Win Mag.
 
Remember Rick started all this!
Regards,
Mat

[gitano]

Very Nice!
 
Paul

[sakorick]

Very Nice!
 
Paul

Ditto here. What a canon! Regards, Rick.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

Yep the 1100M is quite a beast. The rifle weighs about 10 1/2lbs as P-H added lead weights to the stock to help reduce felt recoil. Oh it was also available in .375 H&H and I beleive a limited number in .404 Jefferies.

  Here is a look at the business end:-



 
A closer look at thta rear sight:-
 

 
This is mine fitted with a Weaver K3W :-
 
 
 
 

[Big Banger]

Very nice Brithunter! I hope you got %25 off that scope :smiley:
I found another one in .375 H&H that was not as nice as this one. I haven't seen any in .404 yet but I will definitely grab one when I do.
Regards,
Mat

[Brithunter]

Ahhh the scope I found NIB some years back and brought it for what I thought was a good price.

[sakorick]

Hello BH....Well, you won't be needing that one in Missouri:) I have been looking for big bore Sakos but alas, they are hard to find. It seems the big boys sell for at least 30% over book...I should have bought them when nobody wanted them. I have not seen a decent Parker Hale in any caliber for at least whenever this thread was started. I keep looking though. Regards, Rick.

[Canhunter]

Hi all !!!  I have 2 Parker... and same problem finding the model of them, could you please help me out cause I'm badly need it, one is 308 Win. and a 300 Win. Mag. The only info that i can find in these 2 are Parker Hale LTD. Birmingham, England and Cal.... with the letters BNP under the crown for both.  Here're the pic please help.  Thanks to all in advance

[sakorick]

Hello Canhunter. The top on is a PH Super and looks all original. The SN would help....probably made late 60's/early 70's. It should also have an import mark "Jana Denver, Colo". If there is no import mark, then it is Canadian or a GI brought it back from Europe. The lower one has been altered as PH never jewelled the bolt stop bolt or any other pieces. Nice rifles to be sure! Regards, Rick.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

   Sakorick the 1200P model may have had the items jewelled but the photos in the catalogue don't show it clearly :undecided: however it's also possible that a previous owner may have done it or had it done. Hopefully Bigbanger will come along and help as I seem to recall that he alos has a 1200P amongst his little collection of P-H rifles :smiley: . Or I may run into teh one at the range this weekend and take a loof at it to see if that is also jewelled .

 Another thing I have noticed is that in  y catalogue the 1200P has no irons fitted but the one at the range has as does the one in the photos.

[Canhunter]

Thanks all for the comments and info.  I think by now i should have enough detail as needed to fill out my paper work... one thing i know for sure that the 308 Win. (engraving) is the best grouping that i have..  best regard

[Big Banger]

Hi Guys,
Nice rifles Canhunter!

Only the bolt is jewelled on my 1200P and there are no iron sights on it as well.

Canhunter I would like to see some closer pictures of the engraving on the receiver as it looks different than the 1200P. Also it looks like the engraving has been done over the serial number? I am guessing it is a custom rifle or maybe the Canadian Centennial model, I haven't seen one of those yet.

Another mystery,
Mat

[mhanna3]

hello all,
this is my first post on this site and I must say you all have got me hooked on this rifle brand.  I am currently looking for an 30-06,7mm mag, or 300 win mag.  Ive checked some online auctions and was not that lucky.  I did find one on gun broker but I am not sure if it is a real one because it looks like it is missing the recoil lug.  Any chance any of you know where to pick one up at?
thanks,
Matt

[sakorick]

Hello Matt and welcome to THL. I wished I knew. I check Gunbroker, Auction Arms, Steve Barnett, Guns America and the auction sites nearly every day. There hasn't been a nice one sold in a long time. A few of the newer ones but very very few Supers. Most missing the front sight hood and not mint. There was an '06 on GA a few months ago, however, I already have an '06 so I didn't offer. It sold for $550 in 98% condition. The '06 on GB right now looks genuine. I'm not sure why it doesn't have the recoil lug. As the years went by after 1970 they changed little things from time to time. If I were in the market for an '06, I sure would bid on it. I would ask the seller if the front sight was removed or if the barrel has no holes for the sight. 99% of Sako deluxes during the period had no iron sights so PH may have copied them along the way. Good luck and regards, Rick.

[Brithunter]

Hi All if we are talking about this :-
 
Auction # 78239329 on Gunbroker
 
Then having no recoil cross bolt is normal as the model is the 1200V and my 6mm Rem 1200V does not have the cross bolt either, the stocks are glass bedded instead.
 
 



Oh the 1200V had no iron sights and the barrels were not drilled for them however the barrel was drilled and tapped for a scope block so the long target type scopes could be used.
 
Hope that helps

[mhanna3]

thanks for the info! I was just out bidded so I think I am going to take some time and search for some more Ph rifles for sale.  Too bad there is only a handfull to look at

[sakorick]

thanks for the info! I was just out bidded so I think I am going to take some time and search for some more Ph rifles for sale. Too bad there is only a handfull to look at

Good idea, Matt. I always find the rifle I want when not looking. Regards, Rick.

[mhanna3]

well I ended up getting one. Its in 300 win mag. I think I got it for a good price.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=78348244
from the pics of the rifle, can anyone tell me what model they think it is?
The rifle will be going to my gun smith in ohio. This guy builds some snazy mausers most of them shoot about 1/2moa. Im gonna see if there is any work that will be needed before I take it under my wing. once that is done I plan to share the range report with ya all

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

     Looks like it may be a 1200 Super a sit has the basket weave chequering and the gold plated trigger.

[ForneyRider]

Anybody know where I can geta replacement stock for the PH 1200?
Be nice to have a two-tone with checkering. I have Bell & Carlson black composite on their now. Original was destroyed.

[Brithunter]

Hi There Forney Rider,

    Well possibly but as it's here in the UK you might not like the prices :undecided:  as they are much higher than you are used to. As for two tone? the pistol grip cap and fore stock tip are Rosewood on the 1200's. I would ahve to call and check if they have any stocks left as I know they have been building up rifles for the parts and using the P-H stocks. They brought a lot when the factory was cleared out.

[ForneyRider]

Well here is the info on my P-H rifle.
 
BNP with crown all over the place.
 
MAG-68993 on side of action. Also a matching number on the bolt.
 
Bottom of action is purple now.
 
Gold trigger.
 
Formerly 2-tone stock, now a Bell & Carlson fiberglass.
 
7 mm MAG.
PARKER-HALE LTD.
BIRMINGHAM, ENGLAND
 
I really like the safety. Does anyone know what that style is called?
 
The dovetail sights are still installed.
 
Tasco 3-9x32 been on there for decades. I shot Caribou in Alaska at 200 and 300 yards at -35degrees Fahrenheit.
 
Still waiting on the replacement bolt body. May have the 'smith blueprint it, jewel the bolt and re-blue it all. Has quite a bit of surface rust.
 
Is this a 1200?

[sakorick]

Hello Rider. Possibly, some pics would help. Does it have the import mark, Jana, Denver, Colo? Regards, Rick.

[ForneyRider]

I don't see any other marks other than these ones I stated.
 
I may end up taking the rifle apart to get the bolt fixed and replace the scope. I would like to get the gun cleaned up and looking better. It has been abused. But it is accurate, so I am reluctant to touch anything that might detract from that.
 
There have been several rounds put through it all very accurate and safe.

[ForneyRider]

Okay, I took the gun apart.
 
Underneath the barrel:
 
7 M/M MAGNUM 2.50 "
19.5 TONS PER "
 
.. \ /
 
T /\ B
 
. / 2 \
 
 
 
Underneath the action:
 
217 on one side of front screw hole of action, an * on the other side.
 
3 T on bottom.
 
Trigger:
PARKER HALE ENGLAND 98/148
 
Sorry no pics, I can barely see the markings with my eye.
 
I called SARCO. They said the bolt body will be here in a couple of days. I looked at their site, their computer crashed and they lost some orders.

[j4570]

I need help with dating a parker hale also I just picked up,
 
Serial is MAG-246XX
 
300 Win Mag, imported by Jana
 
Picture of Proof:
 


The letters/numbers look like v   3   6   as read from left to right bewteen the crossed area.
 
Gun looks unfired, Still had scope base filler screws in it.  Dealer had a 308 also, trying to think about that, he's having a new recoil pad put on it.  Mine had no pad (was rubber mess) and I bought it as is, I fit the pad and installed it along with Weaver Bases and I scope I had.  Now to go and shoot her.
 
Thanks
 
JW

[Paul Hoskins]

JW, welcome to THL forums. I know little about these guns but would like to see a picture of it. Can you accomodate?.........Paul H

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

   Well they are letters and not numbers so the right one is a B the left could be one of several. Trouble is that B was used on the right from 1950 up to 1984

UB=1969
VB=1970
WB=1971
XB=1972
YB=1973
KB=1984

 So now all you have to do is decide what that left hand letter is .

[j4570]

Brithunter, I think it's a V, so that's a 1970.  thanks for the info.
 
Paul, I'll try and get a pic up.  Should have taken one before I mounted the scope.
 
This looks like it's going to be a nice gun.  I really didn't need it, but for the price, adding a 300 Mag to the collection wasn't a bad idea I thought (and I like Mausers).  I ordered some Prvi-Partisan 165 ammo, since it was fairly cheap, just to try it out.  I'll probably load for it (bought dies too, I have 165 Gr bullets I load for my 7.5 Swiss, either Sierra or Hornady).  Since I'm mostly hunting deer, that will be plenty.  If I go Elk hunting again, I'll take this along with my 375 H&H Rem 700, but depending on how I like it, I might have to choose which one will be the backup!
 
I wish the other one the guy had was a 30-06, I would have bought both!
 
JW

[j4570]

Here are pics:
 




There it is.
 
JW

[Brithunter]

Hey that looks like MY rifle :-



 
 
As you can see same light honey coloured walnut and dark rosewood tip and grip cap. Mine is stamped 7.92mm (8mm Mauser). As you see I took the foresight hood off mine and it's tucked away safely.

[j4570]

Brithunter,
 
are you afraid of losing the ramp sunsheild?  Mine is darn near impossible to get off due to the detents.  Or just hitting it on something?
 
Mine has polished bolt handle and shroud, not blued.  interesting difference.
 
Mine also had the P-H sling swivels but I changed them out for quick change to use my regular slings.  
 
I "tucked" the sling swivels and the scope moutn screw plugs safely away also!
 
8mm Mauser is an excellent round!  I prefer 175gr Sierras and IMR 4320 powder, it's hard to beat in an 8mm.
 
JW

[sakorick]

Brithunter,
 
are you afraid of losing the ramp sunsheild? Mine is darn near impossible to get off due to the detents. Or just hitting it on something?
 
Mine has polished bolt handle and shroud, not blued. interesting difference.
 
Mine also had the P-H sling swivels but I changed them out for quick change to use my regular slings.
 
I "tucked" the sling swivels and the scope moutn screw plugs safely away also!
 
8mm Mauser is an excellent round! I prefer 175gr Sierras and IMR 4320 powder, it's hard to beat in an 8mm.
 
JW

Hello JW. Not that hard to beat......try some IMR4064....faster and more accurate in all my 8MM's. As for your PH, it's a beauty. Mine is a 1968 version('06) and also a Jana import.....They were the finest of the PH's imported. Here are a few pics from a thread that must be 4 years old! Welcome and regards, Rick.

[j4570]

sakorick,
 
nice rifle.  Good to see some 8mm fans here.  My father has a few, I actually don't have any hunting 8mm's.  His recipe was the 175 Sierra with 4320 from the early mid 70's and we have never changed.  Never tried 4064, but an article a few years ago in one of the magazines (when the Remington 700 Classic was offered in 8x57) turned up some disappointing numbers I thought, that our load routinely outperformed, with military barrels I might add.  
 
Anyway, nice P-H, this is my first.  I do want a 30-06 though, probably not an 8mm, I have enough stuff I have to load for already.
 
Did they offer them in 280 Remington?, I might would have to buy that 7mm to give it a try!!! (I can't get used to a "270", it should be a 7mm).
 
JW

[sakorick]

sakorick,
 
nice rifle. Good to see some 8mm fans here. My father has a few, I actually don't have any hunting 8mm's. His recipe was the 175 Sierra with 4320 from the early mid 70's and we have never changed. Never tried 4064, but an article a few years ago in one of the magazines (when the Remington 700 Classic was offered in 8x57) turned up some disappointing numbers I thought, that our load routinely outperformed, with military barrels I might add.
 
Anyway, nice P-H, this is my first. I do want a 30-06 though, probably not an 8mm, I have enough stuff I have to load for already.
 
Did they offer them in 280 Remington?, I might would have to buy that 7mm to give it a try!!! (I can't get used to a "270", it should be a 7mm).
 
JW

Hello JW. Actually there are many 8mm Mauser fans who are members of THL. There is a wealth of information already posted, however, we will be glad to resurface the high points....http://thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9130..... Go here and you can read up on the Ugly Duckling, a recent Mauser project of mine(military barrel, Steyr 1944 action). I have my own range and have done extensive testing on the 7 and 8mm Mauser. 4064 is my "go to" powder hands down.
 

As far as I know, PH never offed a rifle chambered in 280 Remington......Brit Hunter will know for sure as he is a PH affectionado. As a side bar, I don't believe a word the gun writers print. They are paid prostitutes making tons of money on their victims.....not me! I suscribe to Shooting Times, Guns and ammo and the NRA rag, and most articles are untrue with facts omitted. Regards, Rick.

[j4570]

Rick,
 
Great info.  I wasn't implying an article turned me off to 4064.  Actually, the article turned me off because they tested every bullet but my favorite 175 Sierra, because Sierra didn't send them any to try (since they didn't get it for free, it must not be good, huh?).  
 
I agree, I don't read the writers as the "word" either.  It's too political these days.  Never seen a gun absolutely slammed in an article.  
 
Glad to find a bunch of others that like quality craftsmanship.
 
Seems like there are a few Mauser chambering fans (ie, 7x57, 8x57, etc.).
 
JW

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

    Ahh I had forgotten that I had swopped the swivels as well  but yes P-H came with loop swivels which I swopped for the QD studs. I took off the fore sight hood as I am not keen on them for hunting, just a personal thing. The Bolt handle is blacked on this export model, the 7.92mm Chambering was a special order export run, these were soem over-runs offered to the trade here but it was not a normal chambering for P-H. I got it NIB but sorry to say that damp had got into the package and there was some mildew on the butt which I have lessened but it's almost impossible to remove the marks:-



You can see the small black dots nea rthe butt pad.


 
Here you can see the poor inletting, this one was made during the take over and quality dropped I suppose it could be reject?



Straight out of the box.

Now I think it may be possible that York Guns where I got this from may have one left NIB, however it's been soem time since I talked with them and they had a couple left back then. I got mine a few years after they advertised them and they still had a few then. 8mm is not a popular hunting cartridge here, possibly due to the Police who administer the system for some reason they think it's too big to hunt here with.

 Oh my 1200V in 6mm Rem has a polished bolt handle, why the difference? and P-H as far as my catalogues go never offered the .280 but then the 7.92mm chamberign is not listed either  however they did make a fair few in 7x64 which is of course about the same.

 Oh what is wrong with the .270? although I don't have a P-H in .270 I do have four BSA's so chambered.

[j4570]

Nothing is wrong with a 270 per se, I just don't own one, and it would require me to purchase a new diameter bullet, and I have too many already.  7mm has better bullet selection too.
 
7x64?  Brenneke?  If I found one for the right price.
 
Is yours a really recent manufacture gun?
 
JW

[sakorick]

Nothing is wrong with a 270 per se, I just don't own one, and it would require me to purchase a new diameter bullet, and I have too many already. 7mm has better bullet selection too.
 
7x64? Brenneke? If I found one for the right price.
 
Is yours a really recent manufacture gun?
 
JW

If you don't take it please PM me with the details. Regards, Rick.

[j4570]

sakorick,
 
I didn't find one in 270 or 7x64.  The guy does have a 308 though.
 
JW

[Brithunter]

Nothing is wrong with a 270 per se, I just don't own one, and it would require me to purchase a new diameter bullet, and I have too many already. 7mm has better bullet selection too.
 
7x64? Brenneke? If I found one for the right price.
 
Is yours a really recent manufacture gun?
 
JW

Hi There,

    Right the 1200V 6mm is from 1970 (VB) whilst the 1200 Super in 7.92mm (8mm Mauser) is from 1988 (OC) so yes that is a late one. My 1100 deluxe in 30-06 is from 1984 (KB in a circle) and my final P-H is an 1100M in .458 which was made in 1981 (GB in a circle). Si ti would seem I need some earlier ones does it not?

[dino]

Pesonally I like the 270 as I have two of them and they shoot a very tight and accurate pattern. The only game I have not taken w/ my 270 is a red fallow which the BH is lucky to have and able to hunt in his country. I love the antlers they produce!!!!

[Brithunter]

Hi Dino,

Hmmm wonder where the "red fallow" bit came from? as there are just Fallow deer, soem are a reddish colour with spots but lots are dark grey and then some are white and others black. Fallow really do spread the spectrum of colourings. this is ayoungster a Buck and you can see his colour this was taken may 2003 in Hampshire:-
 

 

 
You can see the speckling on his coat which is common. Mature Bucks have to be about 5 years old before they start getting the classic Palmated Antlers.



This you Buck should have still been with his mother but she was killed by a vehicle, I passed the fresh body as I drove to my little hunting spot :o I then came across this little lost soul and watched him for some time to see if he was with his Mother but no Doe appeared and he was too young really to make it on his own so I shot him. He made some fine eating but I would not normally have taken the shot he was too young. As you can see this is basically the same darkish grey and this one was shot in the county of Sus*** near the South Downs and Ashdown forrest.
 

Red Deer are an entirely different genus and are closely related to Elk (Wapiti).

[sakorick]

Hi Dino,
 
Hmmm wonder where the "red fallow" bit came from? as there are just Fallow deer, soem are a reddish colour with spots but lots are dark grey and then some are white and others black. Fallow really do spread the spectrum of colourings. this is ayoungster a Buck and you can see his colour this was taken may 2003 in Hampshire:-
 

 

 
You can see the speckling on his coat which is common. Mature Bucks have to be about 5 years old before they start getting the classic Palmated Antlers.
 

 
This you Buck should have still been with his mother but she was killed by a vehicle, I passed the fresh body as I drove to my little hunting spot :o I then came across this little lost soul and watched him for some time to see if he was with his Mother but no Doe appeared and he was too young really to make it on his own so I shot him. He made some fine eating but I would not normally have taken the shot he was too young. As you can see this is basically the same darkish grey and this one was shot in the county of Sus*** near the South Downs and Ashdown forrest.
 
 
Red Deer are an entirely different genus and are closely related to Elk (Wapiti).

That's why they are once in a lifetime in Germany. They are beautiful creatures and extremely skiddish. I saw 5 of them while hunting in Germany.....they are indeed beantiful. Regards, Rick.

[Mines1]

Hi all
Worked out how to post (not the sharpest knife in the block). Anyone  help with my PH. SN 10642, Birminghouse proof mark, BNP under crown, EB over 2 in a circle.
Thanks.

[sakorick]

Hi all
Worked out how to post (not the sharpest knife in the block). Anyone help with my PH. SN 10642, Birminghouse proof mark, BNP under crown, EB over 2 in a circle.
Thanks.

 
Is it a Jana import? The SN from what I remember, would make it an old one. Can you post some pics? I'm sure Brit Hunter will have this one nailed.....it sounds like a Super made around 1970 to me. If it has a gold trigger and the Jana import with a polished bolt/shroud .....that's my best guess. Does it have a S prefix in the SN????? Regards, Rick. PS a real sharp knife is not required here!:biggthumpup: .

[Mines1]

Hi
I will post some pics, have to get the rifle out of the safe. The bolt shroud is not polished and there is no gold trigger. Don't know regards import as I bought it secondhand and previous owner was not the first. No letter prior to the serial no either. Trigger group has Parker Hale, England, 98/148 on it and Mag (internal 3 or 4 round?) has Parker Hale, England, 98/124 on it. Also next to the view code under breech are the following 2 lines - line 1)  .270" win 2.54" and line 2) 19 tons per Square (symbol) ".

I will go and get pics now.

Thanks
Doug

[Mines1]

Parker Hale pics. Also inside of the breech are the letters "R" at 11 o'clock and "S" at 5 o'clock.
Thanks

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[RatherBHuntin]

Mines1, I do like the look of that rifle.  It's a beauty.

[j4570]

Mines1,
 
The rifle appears in good shape.  This might be a Parker Hale Midland????  Has Parker Hale Mounts?  Hard to find rings over here in the US.
 
I thought those were a different action, maybe 1903 Springfield style???
 
I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I will reply.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

Yep it's a Midland rifle made by Parker-hale and has a Springfield 03 type bolt. Oh the year is 1979.

Now if you let me know what size scope you want to use I will see what I can find mounts wise. Cannot promise anything but I will ask a few places which may be able to help.

   Oh P-H also made a model 1000 std which had a similar styled stock, not sure if they exported that one to the US, and you don't seem to see many of them either. Wouldn't mind one for the collection so will have to keep my eyes and ears open for a good one.

[Mines1]

Thanks all

This .270 was purchased in Australia. Does that make a difference? The scope mounts are genuine Parker Hale and I have scope rings to suit. I forget the numbering but it is something like A30 and A40? They are not mounted at the moment as the Tasco Lumina 6X40 scope that was mounted had the inner tube detach from the crosshairs tube during a hunt. I have repaired it but will now mount it to a .22 and have purchased a new Tasco world class 3-9 X 40 to replace it.

[Mines1]

Mines1, I do like the look of that rifle.  It's a beauty.

Thanks mate, it is definitely a workhorse with a few dings in it. It has taken quite a few feral camels in it's life, with a few more to come yet.

[Mines1]

Hi All,

Yep it's a Midland rifle made by Parker-hale and has a Springfield 03 type bolt. Oh the year is 1979.

Now if you let me know what size scope you want to use I will see what I can find mounts wise. Cannot promise anything but I will ask a few places which may be able to help.
 
   Oh P-H also made a model 1000 std which had a similar styled stock, not sure if they exported that one to the US, and you don't seem to see many of them either. Wouldn't mind one for the collection so will have to keep my eyes and ears open for a good one.

BH

Looked up the models of Parker Hale and couldn't find reference to a Midland rifle? Mainly all numerical models listed. Maybe my rifle is the 1000 std?

Whoops, sorry mate just saw that after the numerical reference was the rifle name - as I said in an earlier post - not the sharpest knife in the block. So it makes it a model 2100 or model 2800?

Thanks
Doug

[sakorick]

Hello Mines. Like the Witworth Zastavas, the Midlands never caught on here in the states and it's a shame. Both were very fine rifles and far superior to the era Winchester and Remingtons. I would guess the 19 tons would correspond to around 60,000 CUP which would indicate the max loads for the 270 would be a piece of cake for the action....which by the way, looks very strong indeed. Perhaps Gitano would know the exact conversion numbers. The Magazine should hold 4 shells and one in the chamber for a total of five rounds. It is a beauty. From time to time they pop up on Guns America and can be purchased for a song.

For BH....Did this Midland have a set screw in the bolt stop? I believe the PH 1000 had this feature??? I think the Mod 1000 and the Midland were very close to the same????? Regards, Rick.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

     I am sorry to say that I am not familar with the Midland and it's action although I have seen a few I never really took notice of them much. The Midland model does not appear in my 1973 catalogue and price list yet it was listed in 1984 as somewhere I have a flier of P-H's with it on from 1984 ( don't ask me where right now). So I wonder exactly when P-H started this Midland model and when they acquired the Midland name.

   Midland was an old company whcih P-H acquired, I believe Midland were more into the shotgun side than rifles originally and the Midland Gun Company was a bread and butter maker making working guns for working people out of Birmingham. The local gun club's shop had a Midland on the rack last year but as I have not been over there this year due to the membership being £140 ($280 US) for the year and more than I could really afford I left the club in January when memberships came up for renewal.

  Now as for proofing well the Rritish use the long Ton and not the metric Ton which the US uses. There are 2240lbs in a ton or 20 Cwt (Hunredweight, 1CWT is 112lbs)

1 Stone =14lbs
8 Stone = 1Cwt (hundredweight)
1 Cwt =112lbs
20 Cwt = 1Ton
1 Ton =2240lbs

1 Tonne =2000lbs = 1 Metric Ton

  Oh and 1 gallon = 8 pints = 4.54 litres. I pint = 20 fl oz.

    I think I have mentioned that the Proof house has altered it's proof of 7.62 Nato from 19 Tons to 20 Tons per square inch due to those idiot handloaders from the long range NRA target shootign crowd who were regularlly over loading the 7.62x51 to keep the 155 grain bullet supersonic at 1200 yards and it doing so they broke and blew up several Enfield No 4 actions with the result the action is now banned for converted rifles in New Zealand. So in NZ a L42 sniper rifle is banned due to soem idiots who refused to follow same loadign practices and keep to the design pressures of a cartridge.

  Now the NRA in England is trying to force all owners of No4 conversion to 7.62x51 to subject ther rifles to the dangers of re-proofing at excessive, more than normal, proof pressures. despite the fact that untill these "so called experts" overlaoded the cartridges and actions the converted Lee Enfield had been used for scores of year in 7.62x51 guise with no problems. If they wanted to push the envalope they should have used stiffer/stronger action like the P-14 which was designed fro a hgigh pressure cartridge namely the .276 Enfield experimental from 1913.

     The Enfield was designed to solely handle the .303 cartridge and has prooved to be very reliable when so treated, but I digress .

[Mines1]

Thanks fellas
I am very conservative in the reload dept so don't reckon I will ever reach close to max breech pressure. I have been using ADI AR2209 powder but can't recall grains (it's in the reload book). I am going to see if I can track down the original owner of my rifle to get some more info, I think he still lives here in Alice Springs.
Catch you later.

[j4570]

You can "preview" part of the Gibbs Rifle Co. Section of the Blue Book of gun values here:
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=eWFt_wO2eK8C&pg=PA4&dq=blue+book+inc&sig=lgea_8Ihc3HZ-oAvbrVntq-SYkc#PRA3-PA751,M1
 
It talks a little about the Midland.  But I'll have to find my Blue Book and look in it and see what it says.  
 
You'll probably need high speed internet.
 
JW

[sakorick]

Here is a picture of a Parker Hale 1000 with the set screw on the bolt stop with a 03 bolt. I have never seen one in this configuration. Regards, Rick.

[Brithunter]

Hi Sakorick,

      As I said I don't know where I have put the 84 flier from P-H which had the Midland rifle on it as it showed a photo of the Bolt. Now the P-H 1000 what what I can see in the 73 catalogue show a mauser 98 action however the writing on the model 1000 page says it's an Improved 98 action. What the improvements are perhaps you will be able to see what the improvements are.

[Big Banger]

Hi Guys,
There is a Parker Hale 1200P Presentation Model 30-06 up for auction at

http://www.gunsstore.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=82748970

Regards,
Mat

[j4570]

That's tempting, though not worth much more to me than the starting bid and it has no iron signts?  Did Presentation Grades not have iron sights?  
 
I'd like a 30-06 Parker Hale or Husqvarna, but I'm a shooter, not a collector.
 
JW

[Big Banger]

No the Presentation Model did not have sights.
Mat

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

     Hmmm the P-H 1200P's I have seen and the photo in the catalogue I have all have the High Glass finish. This one does not seem to have the high gloss finish.

[Mines1]

You can "preview" part of the Gibbs Rifle Co. Section of the Blue Book of gun values here:
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=eWFt_wO2eK8C&pg=PA4&dq=blue+book+inc&sig=lgea_8Ihc3HZ-oAvbrVntq-SYkc#PRA3-PA751,M1
 
It talks a little about the Midland.  But I'll have to find my Blue Book and look in it and see what it says.  
 
You'll probably need high speed internet.
 
JW

Thanks JW, I have been to that site before and it is OK but you are limited to some pages of the book to preview (fair enough) and I couldn't get to the Midland section.

Doug

[sakorick]

You can "preview" part of the Gibbs Rifle Co. Section of the Blue Book of gun values here:
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=eWFt_wO2eK8C&pg=PA4&dq=blue+book+inc&sig=lgea_8Ihc3HZ-oAvbrVntq-SYkc#PRA3-PA751,M1
 
It talks a little about the Midland. But I'll have to find my Blue Book and look in it and see what it says.
 
You'll probably need high speed internet.
 
JW

Hello JW and welcome to the forum. Frankly, the Blue book of gun values means nothing to me. The book is fraught with **** prices and a general lack of facts. There are hundreds of ommissions and errors. My take is to never purchase a firearm using this as a source:Banghead: . The exceptions are Model 70 Winchesters and ADL/BDL Remingtons......and watch out here too! Firearms are worth what someone wants to pay.....not what a book says they are worth.  Regards, Rick.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

       Here in the UK prices and fashions vary widely depending on locality :undecided: in some places you will not see older rifles like Parker-Hale and BSA on the racks as the shops are only interested in selling the new heavily hyped in the media stuff which often has plastic stocks etc. Should heaven forbid something go wrong with a new gun then they can simply pass the buck onto the importer as a lot of modern gunshops do not have any Gunsmiths and in a lot of cases any knowledge about the workings of the very guns that they sell. Shops like this only see me once.

       Some of these places should an older make come in will simply stick it out back out and then send it off to auction as it's not good enough to grace their racks . Some shops do this because regardless of condition of the rifle the uneducated locals would not buy it regardless of conditon and quality and instead buy a rifle which is fashionable and hyped by the shooting press. Seduced if you will by flashy write ups and photos and of course so that they may bask in the glow on envy of their equally shallow friends  for in these circles not having the right brand is a henious crime .

    Now of course this has a beneficial upside for those who like myself apprecieate the older rifles  so may their ignorance continue!

[j4570]

sakorick,
 
I was simply pointing out the page.  I wouldn't rely 100% on the Blue Book Either, but it's a good reference to have around, I buy it every 3-5 years on closeout.  But it should not be a person's ONLY reference.
 
The pricing is really hit or miss these days, if something is hot, it's way off.  The internet can stir up a lot of stuff.  Take a Smith 696 44 Special, it's like $200-400 low on what they are going for.  That's nuts!!!  But I have seen other guns they claim are gold mines to simply not bring the money in the condition stated (including Model 70 Winchesters).
 
I think we should be happy the Parker-Hale, along with the likes of Husqvarna FN's, J.C. Higgin's FN's, and other Mauser type actions are relatively good bargains right now.  Particularly, in the US, European calibers uncommon in the US can be had at a discounted price (a 7x57 or 8x57 will not be worth as much to the average hunter as a 30-06, but a collector might pay a premium if it's rare).
 
I'm enjoying discussing Parker-Hale's here as there seems very little information about them on the net.
 
JW

[Mines1]

Here is a picture of a Parker Hale 1000 with the set screw on the bolt stop with a 03 bolt. I have never seen one in this configuration. Regards, Rick.

Hi all

Here is a picture of my PH 1979 .270 midland as discussed earlier in posts with a set screw, but has a different method to remove the bolt.

Doug

[sakorick]

sakorick,
 
I was simply pointing out the page. I wouldn't rely 100% on the Blue Book Either, but it's a good reference to have around, I buy it every 3-5 years on closeout. But it should not be a person's ONLY reference.
 
The pricing is really hit or miss these days, if something is hot, it's way off. The internet can stir up a lot of stuff. Take a Smith 696 44 Special, it's like $200-400 low on what they are going for. That's nuts!!! But I have seen other guns they claim are gold mines to simply not bring the money in the condition stated (including Model 70 Winchesters).
 
I think we should be happy the Parker-Hale, along with the likes of Husqvarna FN's, J.C. Higgin's FN's, and other Mauser type actions are relatively good bargains right now. Particularly, in the US, European calibers uncommon in the US can be had at a discounted price (a 7x57 or 8x57 will not be worth as much to the average hunter as a 30-06, but a collector might pay a premium if it's rare).
 
I'm enjoying discussing Parker-Hale's here as there seems very little information about them on the net.
 
JW

Hello JW. Good. I sure would like to be able to find a NIB Sako Deluxe pre Garcia with the Bofors mark for 800 dollars! That is but one example. Speaking of FN Mausers, there was a number of companies including Wards, Western Auto and many others that marketed FN Mausers back in the very early 60's. They are sensational shooters....most were chambered in 30'06. I good friend of mine has one that he paid $30 for at Western Auto in Boulder Colo back in the late 50's that is a one holer. That rifle should be worth at least 600 dollars but they sell for 1/2....shoot, the action is worth 500 bucks!
Regards, Rick.

[hunt4ever]

I have the exact same rifle you have pictured - my father purchased years ago & I'm starting to use it now - awesome!  What model is this rifle?

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

    The last rifle pictured is a Midland by Parker-Hale and yes Sakorick I looked at one at the Bisley show it also had the screw in the bolt release but the screw was a cheese headed one not a hex socket screw. I am thinking that the earlier one may have had the straight slotted cheese head screw and the socket screwss are later. It's only a theory of mine and would require careful examination of the view marks to date them to proove or dis proove my theory. One day I hope to get a nice Midland for my collection.

[Crowe73]

Hello everyone.  I am looking for info on a Parker Hale rifle I inherited from my grandfather.  It is a .308 and apparently was made for JC Penney.  I believe my grandfather purchased it sometime in the late 60's or early 70's.  It doesn't have a model name on it, only a serial # (p77635).  I have searched the net to try and cross reference the serial, but it appears you guys are the only people on the planet mildly interested in the Parker Hales.  I have shot the gun several times over the years and love it.  Thanks for any help.

[sakorick]

Hello everyone. I am looking for info on a Parker Hale rifle I inherited from my grandfather. It is a .308 and apparently was made for JC Penney. I believe my grandfather purchased it sometime in the late 60's or early 70's. It doesn't have a model name on it, only a serial # (p77635). I have searched the net to try and cross reference the serial, but it appears you guys are the only people on the planet mildly interested in the Parker Hales. I have shot the gun several times over the years and love it. Thanks for any help.

 
Hello Crowe. I'm afraid without pictures none of us can be much help. Both PH and FN made rifles for Mr. JC. We would need pics of the trigger and guard, both sides of the stock, detail of bolt, safety and shroud, Buttpad, and front sight.

Does it have rosewood caps with white spacers? does it have a gold trigger? Have you taken it out of the stock and checked for markings on the lower part of the action? Does it have skipline checkering? Get back to us with pics and I'm sure we can help you out. Regards, Rick.

[gitano]

it appears you guys are the only people on the planet mildly interested in the Parker Hales

20 pages of posts in this thread - maybe it should be "stickied" to the top of the Firearms & Optics. No?
 
Paul

[Big Banger]

This thread hasn't had much action lately so here check out this PH Safari .375 I bought today. Made in 1967 it has a Weaver 2.5 scope on it.
Mat

[sakorick]

Wow!!! Mat, that's a beauty. Someone did a beautiful job refinishing it and installing the decelerator pad....am I right? That mauser has a 3 digit SN too....BH will be along soon to drool. He may be able to find you a sight cover too. You rifle reeks with class. Regards, Rick.

[Big Banger]

Thanks Rick, the rifle actually looks better in the pictures. The stock has been refinished and the decelerator installed but the rest is original. I have a new old stock recoil pad that I will put on it. I would like to get a sight cover for it.
Mat

[R70Mach1]

I had posted these in another thread but this one obviously has more action. I have had several Parker Hales over the years and have never bothered to research them. I found this forum while searching the internet last week. Here are my four 30-06's.  I have a .308 also that I will photograph.  I will try to take some better pictures if you would like.  I have a presentation grade 1200. A plain wood 30-06.  A rounded fore end 30-06 and then my son's P-H that the stock broke and my uncle made a new stock for him.

[Big Banger]

Another Parker Hale fan!
Nice rifles!
Mat

[dragon66]

Hi,

  I'm new to Hunter's Life and I realize that this thread has about run it's course, but I thought I'd add my $.02.

  I have 2 Parker Hale 1200's, a .308 that I bought new in '70 and a .300 Win Mag that I bought on an online auction last year.  The .300 needs some stock work and I'm looking for a gunsmith I can trust to do it right.  I'm happy with both mine and think that they're good rifles for a reasonable price.

  Lots of info on P-H here, glad I found this.

Regards,

Joe

[gitano]

Most of the time here are THL, anybody's $0.02 is welcome, and that's certainly true in this case. Welcome to THL, Joe.
 
Paul

[rkg]

Hey everyone,
I cannot believe I found so many people who appreciate parker hales. What a great place. Still new to the whole sport, but as with everything in my life I prefer the less travelled path. So when it came to purchasing a rifle, all my buddies are telling me to go mainstream and go with the flashy pictured and well written brands, but I can't. I live in Alberta and found in a very obscure little gunshop a Parker Hale Midland in 270 Win. It is very clean, hardly any markings or scratches. Comes mounted with a Simmons 3-9x40mm scope on Weaver mounts. Bolt has no movement and inside of barrel seems ok. From what i have read over the last several pages this seems like a deal at $499, but i will try to post some pics for further info.

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

 The Midland rifle used hte same barrels as the other P-H rifles but had a different action. The bolt on the Midland is like the Springfield 03 bolt. The Midland rifle was made as a more basic model to the P-H 1100 and 1200 Super. Sorry cannot help on price comparisons.

[gitano]

Maybe this thread should be "stickied".
 
Paul

[Steveb]

Hi all. Im new to the forum and would like to ask a question. Has anyone heard of a parker hale model 1500 safari deluxe? The rifle has a m98 action and the big mauser saftey,( not the saftey's that are "push foward" types in all the pics on this thread). Any input would be appreciated.

Regards from South Africa

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

   You sure it's a 1500 and not 1100? I have an 1100 which has trhe normal Mauser flag safety, well did have until I swopped it for the P-H low Scope safety that they kindly sent me when still in operation.

[Steveb]

Hi. Im 99% sure. It was given to me by my dad who bought it in the early 70's. It came with a .243 barrel and a spare 270 barrel. The action is long. (enough to fit a 30-06 catrige in it). Unfortunatly il only be able to post a photo  and the exact details on monday as the rifle is at another place at the moment. I was really just curious as mine looks different to the others shown in this forum  :)

[sakorick]

Hi. Im 99% sure. It was given to me by my dad who bought it in the early 70's. It came with a .243 barrel and a spare 270 barrel. The action is long. (enough to fit a 30-06 catrige in it). Unfortunatly il only be able to post a photo and the exact details on monday as the rifle is at another place at the moment. I was really just curious as mine looks different to the others shown in this forum :)

To the best of my knowledge Parker Hale imported the M1000, M1200 Super, 1100 Light and Magnum series to the US. If it has 2 barrels perhaps it is a 1200 varient. If so, it would be imported by Jana, Denver, Colo and have a gold adjustible trigger and a side safety. I have never heard of the M1500 therefore they are certain to exist. Regards, Rick.

[Steveb]

Let me first of all apologise for gettin everybody thinking. Was thinking long and hard last night with a couple of cold ones and relized that it is a model 1200! i managed to get it confused with my Howa wich is a model 1500. Anyways il post a picture(if i figure out how to) on monday of it!

Thanks for the replies

[Brithunter]

Hmmm this will interesting as the flag safety puts a lot of models out fo the running including the 1200 as far as I am aware.

[Steveb]

Patients. My rifle is at my farm and im in the city till friday. Im getting anxious  as its really nice to see so many people interested in rifles especially the P-H as here where im from alot of guys tend to knock them down. even though i think it is one of the staights shooters iv come across!

Anyway ur comments are greatly appreciated

regards

[gitano]

... its really nice to see so many people interested in rifles especially the P-H as here where im from alot of guys tend to knock them down.

Is that "knock down" P-Hs, or rifles in general?
 
Paul

[Steveb]

Alot of people tend to think of them as inferior -especially the midlands version.

[sakorick]

Alot of people tend to think of them as inferior -especially the midlands version.

Well, actually they are inferior.....nice rifles but far far removed from a Sako at the same price. The really nice PH's IMHO were the late 60's Supers with the gold trigger. They started downhill soon there after. Parker Hale just couldn't compete with Sako, Weatherby and Browning try as they might. Regards, Rick.


Sidebar: This thread really needs to be stickied.

[Steveb]

You wont believe it but i took the photos and forgot the camera behind! Anyway after a long chat with my old man last week he said the rifle was a model 1200. Anyway i had a look again and all i can come up with is Safari deluxe on receiver, parker hale ltd birmingham on barrel and the number G ***( 3 digits)M near receiver.There is no number stating model that i can find.Will try get the pics on this week.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

    Ahhh the 1200 Super had the Gold plated triggers right up to the end as my 7.92mm one does. Now if this has Super Safari on the side of the action I do not believe it's a 1200 Super. The Safari was another model but this is not set in stone. Finding out the truth is difficult in the murky waters that was the Parker-Hale model line up. We need some catalogues for the 1960s and then later 1970's and then later still for the early 1980's

The Midland was a more budget model aimed at the budget minded, the barrels are the same as the p-H line up it was the stocking with plainer Walnut and a different action.

Now some of the Parker-Hales that I have seen and handled are equal to the Sako's I have seen, sorry Rick , but P-H did suffer quality dips several times usually when a take over was happening it seems. The quality of my 1200V and the 1100 Deluxe is very good indeed.

I was unlucky to see a poorly maintained P-H when first looking at them and so put off and for some reason the BSA line grabbed my attention :smiley: .

[Steveb]

It has no super safari on the reciever, just safari deluxe and a normal double pull blued trigger( no gold trigger).

[Steveb]

Ive finally got some pics and hope someone can identify my P-H.
 
Thanks

[sakorick]

Hello Steve. It looks to be one of the older versions and it's obviously a Mauser action with the original saftey. Probably one of the K98 German Mausers Parker Hale acquired back in the 50's and sporterized. If you take it apart and take some close up pictures of the markings on the underside of the action we can guess the approximate year. What is the serial number and is there an import mark on the barrel? The early ones were imported by Jana, Denver, Colo. Caliber? Nice rifle. Regards, Rick.

[Steveb]

Thanks. Dont think il be taking it apart soon but just really wanted to know where the rifle fitted in(year wise). Other than p-h birmingham, england on the barrel there is 243 win stamped on top of the barrel chamber. The serial number is G ***M cant remeber exactly but it is like 867 or somthing like that. I actually came across a pic of a P-H for sale in australia which also has the serial number G***M. It looks very similar as well.

Thanks for your thoughts

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

I would say it's an early 1960's Safari, it has a Safari Standard stock according to the Cat #67 but is marked Safari De Luxe? By 1966 the De Lux had a Snobble Fore end and an adjustable single stage trigger with hinged floor plate magazine. Yours has the std Mauser floor plate and trigger by the looks of it features which by 1966 were those of the Safari Standard rifle.

Reading the front of the #67 catalogue I discovered that P-H moved to new works in Sparkbrook in 1963 and I quote:-
 

In 1963, Paker-Hale moved to their streamlined new headquarters at Sparkbrook, a suburb of Birmingham, where a major aspect of production at the new factory has been Parker-Hale's own phenominally successful range of "Safari" Mauser Sporting Rifles developed from re-building and conversion of military rifles to sporting pattern.

[/COLOR][/SIZE]


It would appear to me at least that Parker-Hale were only really getting into sporting rifle production in 1963, before this they were mainly converting Military rifles so those early rifles had German (most likely) actions with new P-H made barrels the catalogue shows a new CFM vertical rifling machine. By 1973 the production quantities had outstripped this production capabilty and a newly British built horizontal hammer forging machine was built and installed to add to the capacity of the CFM machine.

Let's hope I am successful in obtaining catalogue No 68 as it might add a bit more to the knowledge of P-H models. keep an eye out for earlier 1960's catalogues a 63 one would be very useful as would a 1970 and a 1978 or there abouts .

[Big Banger]

Here is another Parker Hale 1200P 30-06 that I just acquired. Made in 1974. The previous owner had the receiver, bolt, trigger guard, floor plate, scope mounts and rings electrollosis nickled. The barrel has been bead blast blued and magnaported. The bolt handle replaced with one that fits closer to the stock allowing more room near the scope when open.
I don't think many of you would modify a rifle like this but I am interested in your thoughts anyway. I have an original 1200P already and although I wouldn't modify one as they seem to be kind of rare this one is done and I do like it.
Mat

[R70Mach1]

Big Banger,  I like the look.  I also have a presentation grade and you are right, I probably will never do this.  But I kind of like the look. The detail stands out more. Nice purchase!  I just sold my first Parker Hale. I have never sold one of out of my collection before, but a friend was going to purchase a cheap $280 Marlin with a synthetic stock from Bass Pro Shop and I couldn't let him do it. So I sold him a 30-06 with a Simmons scope on it. He was cradling it like a baby when he left.  I just love these rifles.

[Big Banger]

I find it hard to part with them too but there is nothing wrong with steering a buddy in the right direction. Now if he really likes that 30-06 he will probably tell you about every PH rifle he finds .
Mat

[Brithunter]

Hmmm looking at it my thoughts are that the bolt handle has been quite heavily altered or even changed as it does not look like any I have or seen in the P-H catalogues. Not sure on the look  :undecided:  need more time to think on that.

However it's in very nice condition .

[Big Banger]

I think this 'Parker Hale Rifles A concentrated archive of threads' was a great idea!!
 
Thanks to everyone that made it happen,
Big Banger

[Carbine]

Hello all, just wanted to post a picture of a Parker Hale Safari Sporter I just picked up. It has the solid floor plate and the cut out in the left rail. Stock is oil finished walnut. Blued inserts have been placed where the iron sights were. Came from the same family who has owned it since new. It was purchased around 1965. .270 Win
 

[Big Banger]

Very nice!!

[Carbine]

Thanks Mat! It was sold new in Edmonton, AB. I'm looking for an old school Weaver K-6 to get period glass onboard.

There are quite a few Parker Hales here in western Canada.  Some are well used, but just as many are minters.

The big gun show is in Calgary this weekend. I'll check out whats there for PH stuff. There are always a few.

Thanks to this thread I'll know better what I'm looking at.

Cheers,  Peter

[Big Banger]

I like those vintage Weavers, I put a K6 on my 30-06. I bought it from a guy in Edmonton, he a couple of them on ebay.
Good luck at the show,
Mat

[dennism]

Hi All,
 
I just picked up a Parker Hale 243 from a friend. It had been in storage for nearly 10 years. The bolt does not have matching number and is a bit tight locking down at the very end, so I will take it to gunsmith for a look.
 
I am wondering if you could help me identify it.
 

 

 
It has EB2 stamped in a circle on the bottom of the barrel, has PARKER HALE LTD. BIRMINGHAM ENGLAND stamped on top of barrel forward of rear sight, serial number is D07759, has the embossed floor plate, and black trigger. The trigger assembly has Parker Hale in raised lettering.
 
Any help would be much appreciated!
 
Dennis

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

Right you have a Model 1100 De Luxe made in 1979 and it sounds like the bolt needs adjusting as it should not be tight. The headspace it too tight as it is.

In fact that is not a P-H bolt at all but from another Mauser rifle. The bolt handle is the wrong profile but the photo of it is of the underside however I am pretty confident that I am right on this.
 
 

 
This is the profile fo the P-H bolt handle and that does not look the one in yours.

[dennism]

Hi Brithunter,
 
Thanks very much for that.  Yours is in very nice condition.  I have taken a couple of photos with a setup more like yours.  I think maybe the bolt is a Parker Hale.  What do you think with the different angle.
 

 

 

 
Once again, thanks for your help. I am now off to wash the tablecloth before the mrs finds the oil stains I have made on it!
 
Dennis

[Brithunter]

Hmmm the shape is not right and I cannot see any Birmingham, prrofs on it so I still think it's not the right bolt. P-H electro etched the last 3 digits of the serial number on the bolt body and I don't see that either add to that the fact that the flat on the bolt knob is missing. All mine except the 1100 Lwt have this flat the Lwt has a hollowed bolt knob.

The only one with out these features is the 1100M which is a different action being of magnum length.

No that's not the correct bolt .................... hence the problem with it being too tight. I'd lay odds it's been stored with the bolt out AND they have got switched around .

[dennism]

Thanks very much for your help Brithunter. I shall see how it goes with the gunsmith today.

[Brithunter]

OK please keep us informed.

Now since you first posted this another P-H has appeared with a full round bolt knob :undecided: just goes to show how much we have to learn. However I still think that unless you find the last three digits of the serial number on the underside of the bolt abd a Brimingham Proof mark then it's unlikely to be the original and correct bolt.

[Big Banger]

Hi Guys,
I just found the correct magazine for my Parker Hale Custom No.4, it took a long time to find. The picture below shows the three different mags I have for the Parker Hale No.4 rifles.
From left to right:
5 round mag for the De Luxe No.4
5 round mag for the Custom and Supreme No.4
10 round mag for the Standard No.4

 
The next picture shows the bottom of the mags.
Notice the the flat bottom of the mag for the De Luxe No.4. It is a 10 round mag cut down with a flat piece of steel welded on it.
The 5 round mag for the Custom and Supreme has a nicely finished bottom like the 10 round mag, this mag was Made in Japan Expressly for Parker Hale.


The 5 round mag for the De Luxe No.4 actually holds 6 rounds. The 5 round mag for the Custom and Supreme No.4 holds 7 rounds.

[dkota4103]

hi, i finally found a site where they know something about parker-hale rifles. i finally found one for sale. the owner got it from his father and does not know when it was made. it looks like the pics brithunter had on post back in 2007 of his 1200v super. it has the gold trigger. on the of the barrell is parker- hale birmingham, eng. importer jana denver, col. it has the bnp under crown mark. also has (ab) with number 5 under ab. parker- hale england 98/148 on trigger. if brithunter can help. thank you.

[Brithunter]

If the AB is inside a circle or oval then it dates from 1975 without photos I cannot help much.

[dkota4103]

thanks for the info.  yes  the ab is inside of an oval with the number  5  in the bottom of an underside down y

[Brithunter]

Glad to be able to help :) in few days hopefully I can put up some photos of the 1200 Super Clip.


Is it tomorrow yet?

[dkota4103]

thank you again. i will try to post some pics of the rifle.

[dkota4103]

hope brithunter can answer this. is the barrel free floating or not. i tried sliding a one dollar between the barrel an the stock and it will not fit. thank you.

[Brithunter]

The only P-H rifles that I am aware of that were free floated from the factory are:-

1200V (Heavy barreled varmint rifle)
1200TX ( Single Shot heavy barreled target rifle)
M85 (heavy barreled sniper rifle)

The std 1200 supers did not have a floated barrel so not being able to slide anything between the barrel and forestock is correct :) .

[dkota4103]

what is a good bore cleaner for the parkers.

[Brithunter]

There are many good bore cleaners out there. I use Parker-Hale 009 and have done so since I started shooting. I also have some Hoppes 009 but have not used it for a long time as I started using the Forrest Foaming Bore cleaner to remove copper fouling.

I always clean the powder fouling out first with the P-H 009 then wipe it out and spray the foam in and leave it to work. I have found that standing the rifle muzzle down on a cloth helps keep the foam in contact at the muzzle othewise the foam disappears at the muzzle and does not remove the last bit of fouling.

See what cleaners the shooters in your area use and what you can get easily. I alos scrub the bore with bronze brushed dipped in the solvent, yes it does wear the brushes, but I would rathe replace the brushes every so often and get the bores clean.

[Blackjack]

Hello SakoRick,
A very nice tool. The Parker/Hale history is complex and highly interesting. Typical though P/H was full of managers who had their heads up their rear ends and did not see the storm of asset stripping and recession coming. P/H's demise is a true tragedy. I have a friend who worked in the P/H stores and he was witness to catalogues, all sorts of paper/work, and thousands of gun & rifle parts including many wooden gun & rifle stocks being dumped into garbage skips!!!! during P/H's dying days. The P/H "Hussar" is a fabulous rifle, built on a Brno ZG 47 action [receiver]. Strange thing though out of all my P/H catalogues from 1939 to the early 1980's their is not one mention or picture of the P/H "Hussar"!

Regards Blackjack AKA Mike [The limey]

[mattyj]

Hi Everyone ,( I'm new to the forums ) I have been given a PH rifle in .243
I believe it is a PH 1100 Safari Deluxe and the action is an original Military Mauser 98 Action as it has the thumb slot and the stripper clip slot ( correct me if I'm wrong) I really want to find out more about this action if it was maybe a re-used war action ??

The rifle has an aftermarket barrel and has not been run in as yet . The action has been bedded and the rigger worked ( Also another point of interest is the trigger shape ) and Also the Bolt handle differs from other Parker Hales ( I have not seen one like this before ) If any PH experts can shed some more light regarding this rifle that would be great ....

[mattyj]

Here are a couple more photos :
Also is not clear in the photos but the stock has that bulge at the for end ( Schnabel )

[gitano]

Welcome mattyj - There will be some PH gurus around before long.

Paul

[mattyj]

Yes that would be good if someone could have a look at the pics.
Does Brithunter still post here , he seems to be pretty clued up on Parker Hales

[branxhunter]

Interesting rifle there mattyj.

The schnabnel fore-end sounds like the one on my first PH .243, since sold:

[ATTACH]13062[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]13063[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]13064[/ATTACH]

Mine had the original two-stage trigger, and a similar safety as yours. It too was a Safari Deluxe. Yours seems to have a more modern shape around the cheekpiece, and has the Obernhorf-style floorplate latch. Mine had a floorplate but no latch to open it.

Marcus

[mattyj]

Yes , the floor plate is aftermarket aswel Im going to take the action out of the stock and take a few more photos to post

[mattyj]

I am thinking about getting a synthetic stock for this rifle , I had a look at a ramline one but dont like the finish of it . I know many people dont like the plastic stocks but this rifle will be used on a dirt bike so I want to keep the timber stock in good condition .
Also the barrel being 26" will get shortened . I will post some pics when I get it back from the smiths

Cheers

[sakorick]

I am thinking about getting a synthetic stock for this rifle , I had a look at a ramline one but dont like the finish of it . I know many people dont like the plastic stocks but this rifle will be used on a dirt bike so I want to keep the timber stock in good condition .
Also the barrel being 26" will get shortened . I will post some pics when I get it back from the smiths

Cheers

Don't buy a Ramline.....junk! Have you thought about a laminate? Boyds make some real nice one that are very close to drop in for Mauser actions. Here are pics of some of my customs.  Regards, Rick.

[gitano]

I'm tempted to lock this thread so new ones will start. When a thread gets too long and covers EIGHT YEARS, good information can get lost because no one will want to read through 260+ posts to find some tidbit of information. I would suggest that all y'all PH owners/shooters start new threads so the information can be easier to find.

Paul

[mattyj]

Probably a good Idea , In future I will start a new thread

[Brithunter]

There is stampings on the left wall of the action or looks to be. What does it say?

I am wondering if it's a Hussar but they are so marked on the action.  If not then it seems to be a sporterised Mauser 98 with a couple of P-H bits fitted. Parker-Hale brought their stocks from Sile of Italy as did BSA in later years.

I have never seen that bolt handle treatment on a P-H and cannot access the photos I did have of the Hussar... never seen on in the flesh so to speak.

[mattyj]

Its a Parker Hale action , see photos of the action .... and was a complete parker hale rifle at one stage . old barrel has long gone ...