Minimum elk caliber for Colorado

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

      Now some may recall that I asked a very similar question some time ago, I rather do like the 270 Win and the 7x57mm, which in modern rifles are very similar regards power and velocity. However as I will be using a Guides service it was pointed out to me that they might not like these small bores on Elk, so I began working with my 7.92mm (8x57) but just in case I cannot resovle it's beding induced accuracy problems to my complete satisfaction I traded into a 30-06.
 
      Now for the 7.92mm I am looking at 196 grn bullets at around 2600-2700 fps the 30-06 I am looking at 180 Grn bullets at 2700-2800 fps. Either of these loads should comfortably do the job even at the slightly longer ranges it seems that may be called upon to secure an Nice Bull. I may yet switch horses depending upon results of testing loads in another rifle/cartride combination which I started playing with a few years ago then it got put in the cabinet and has not been used much since. This to my thinking would be better than either the 8mm or the 30 cal as it has a bigger bullet and more weight to boot however the trajectory may be a little more limiting which is what I intend to test and play with to see how it actually perfoms at say 300 yards:D This on is the 9.3x57mm and I will start with the 235 grn Norma semi pointed bullet and then try the RWS 246 grn Cone Points;) .
 
      In my dreams I would dearly love to use the Old Rigby Mannlicher which is the old 6.5x53R, using the 160 grn bullets it has proven to do an excellent job on Elk just as it did many years ago on Africain game however I cannot see a giude being very pleased with this choice especially with Express iron sights:confused: .

[147 Grain]

Go with the 30-06 and buy Premium / Supreme ammo for heavy game like elk.  If you're hunting elk or moose near the end of a rifle's limit, you can turn the same gun into a 30-06 Magnum by doing three simple things:

1.  Using Premium Bullets with much higher BC's can easily turn a 30-06 into a 300 Win Mag with standard / less Ballistically Efficient ammo.  

Example:  

Winchester's 2005 Ammo Catalog says that at 300 yards, a 30-06 Supreme 180-gr. AccuBond has 102 more ft. lbs of energy (2,004, p. 11) than their 300 Win Mag pushing standard 180-gr. Super X Power Points (1,902 ft. lbs energy at 300 yards - p. 13).  

The above figures are astonishing! especially when you consider the 300 Win Mag's 210 fps MV advantage over the '06.  The Magnum's faster moving Power Point bullets only had a BC of .349 - compared to the slower AccuBonds with a high BC of .509.  A .160 BC can make a big difference in downrange energy.

2.  Consider Federal's High Energy 180-gr. Partitions at 2,890 fps. or Hornady Lite Mag ammo (180-gr. Interlock Spire Points at 3,015 fps) that have a higher MV than a standard 300 Win Mag's Power Point at 2,960 fps.  In this case, 30-06 Supreme / Hornady Lite Magnum ammo beats the 300 Win Mag Super X line.

3.  A 24" barrel provides 100 +/- fps advantage over the standard 22 inchers; further upgrading a 30-06 into a magnum type round.

[147 Grain]

P.S.  Similar comparisons can be deduced with a .270 Win too using Nosler Partition or AccuBond bullets of 150-gr.

[Big Red Trike]

I think I remember a thread on THL regarding barrel length and their effects on velocity......from what I can remember the differences were immaterial at best 20/30 fps on average (?) I think.
 
Anybodyelse remember this?
 
BRT.

[M1Garand]

Go with the 30-06 and buy Premium / Supreme ammo for heavy game like elk. If you're hunting elk or moose near the end of a rifle's limit, you can turn the same gun into a 30-06 Magnum by doing three simple things:
 
1. Using Premium Bullets with much higher BC's can easily turn a 30-06 into a 300 Win Mag with standard / less Ballistically Efficient ammo.
 
Example:
 
Winchester's 2005 Ammo Catalog says that at 300 yards, a 30-06 Supreme 180-gr. AccuBond has 102 more ft. lbs of energy (2,004, p. 11) than their 300 Win Mag pushing standard 180-gr. Super X Power Points (1,902 ft. lbs energy at 300 yards - p. 13).
 
The above figures are astonishing! especially when you consider the 300 Win Mag's 210 fps MV advantage over the '06. The Magnum's faster moving Power Point bullets only had a BC of .349 - compared to the slower AccuBonds with a high BC of .509. A .160 BC can make a big difference in downrange energy.
 
2. Consider Federal's High Energy 180-gr. Partitions at 2,890 fps. or Hornady Lite Mag ammo (180-gr. Interlock Spire Points at 3,015 fps) that have a higher MV than a standard 300 Win Mag's Power Point at 2,960 fps. In this case, 30-06 Supreme / Hornady Lite Magnum ammo beats the 300 Win Mag Super X line.
 
3. A 24" barrel provides 100 +/- fps advantage over the standard 22 inchers; further upgrading a 30-06 into a magnum type round.

With modern powders and bullets, the 30-06 performs better than ever but they do not make it a 300 Win Mag nor does any ammo turn it into one. I know some of the figures you quote are from ammo catalogs but I've found that most of the time when they publish ballistics for rounds/calibers, they tend to be exaggerated. I would suspect the same holds true here. The 30-06 is a fine elk round but not a 300 Win Mag. What you're looking at is marketing which I believe leaves people with the idea that with the light magnum-high energy-supreme rounds, they're essentially shooting a 300 Win Mag or comparable to it, which I don't believe for a second. No offense, I understand your line of thought, I just don't buy it until I see chrony'd results comparing the two.
 

[firebird]

The minimums do seem very low indeed and a clean kill should be the goal of every hunter. Hunting terrain  and your stalking skills in that terrain are key factors in chioce of firearm for any game including elk. Minimum power drops dramatically as range increases and velocity and energy fall off fast at the longer ranges. Bullet construction is is of great importance in the smaller high velocity calibers. Amminition is the cheapest part of your hunt and buy only the best constructed bullets if hunting with smaller calibers. The .243 relies on high velocity and that drops off fast with the heavier  tough bullets needed to kill elk.  Shot placement is more critical with the small calibers due to less penetration than the bigger calibers with thier heavier bullets. I would use a .243 on deer any time but would prefer to go .25 cal. or higher on elk. I would have no problem with the .270 win. and tough 150 GR bullets as long as I stay within my limitations of about 250 yrds. I wouldn't use a .243 for elk even that far do to veocity and energy loss at  that range. I am not a fan of big magnums but they do have thier place if shooting past  300yrds. As always no caliber works well at any range if you can't place your shot  in a vital area of the elk.

Just my opinion.
Firebird

[147 Grain]

Heavier bullets maintain their velocity better than light for caliber projectiles, which at about 200 yards, are going about the same speed (with less mass) than heavy for caliber rounds.

[hunterjosh]

My son is looking to go on his first elk hunt this fall and is looking at the Savage 110GXP3 in the 30-06 Springfield. The Savage is available also in 25-06 Remington, 270 Winchester, 7mm Remington Mag, 300 Winchester Mag and 300 RUM.
 
Curious of minimum centerfire requirements for Colorado, I pulled my Colorado regs to find the minimum is .24 caliber(6mm) and a 70 grain bullet for deer and 85 grain for elk and having impact energy at 100 yards of 1,000 foot pounds. I was actually surprised the minimums were that low.
 
Is there anyone on the forum that has killed an elk with anything close to these minimums?
 
Maynard

I killed two elk's last year with my Savage model 110 308 winchester package gun. I used cheap winchester wal mart 150 grain super x power point bullets!  
 
As for a minimum elk caliber for colorado, I cannot say, but as for me, I might use the 6.5x55mm swedish mauser round in a new bolt action rifle this year for my November elk hunt!
 
I used to think bigger was better, but know I know practice makes perfect!
 
Josh

[147 Grain]

Josh:

Out of curiosity, can you tell us where you hit your elk with the light for caliber 150-gr. Power Points, how the elk reacted, and how far the bullets penetrated?
 
Thanks!

[m gardner]

I got to thinking and the calibers for elk should be easy to determine. There were several that were specifically designed for hunting elk and one became wildly popular. It was the 7mm Remington Magnum. It was designed by some elk guides (Les Bowman was one I believe) who were gun nuts and presented to Remington after some years of experimenting. So it's probably easier to decide if you know the background of the cartridge you intend to use. Gos bless and good hunting.
Mark

[hunterjosh]

Josh:
 
Out of curiosity, can you tell us where you hit your elk with the light for caliber 150-gr. Power Points, how the elk reacted, and how far the bullets penetrated?
 
Thanks!

147 grain
 
The 1st shot was when a big grandma elk was trying to get away from me, about 35 yards away. There was no choosing the ultimate vital zone for the shot. I had to think fast point & shoot. The bullet hit the elk high up on the ribs & part of the spine. The cow instantly dropped. I paralized her then did a follow up shot on the neck to completely put her out.
 
The next shot happened because a wounded elk popped out from the middle of nowhere bleeding at the mouth. I then put one up in the chamber pointed the crosshairs at the arm shoulder heart lung area, & dropped another elk instantly. There was no follow up shot, as I did have a chance to aim properly at the vitals on the second elk.
 
My shooting was at close range, 50 yards & less for both elks. I remember recovering one bullet, it was muchroomed pretty nice. I was also complememted with my shot placements, as no meat was damaged while my elk was being processed.
 
I've used this same ammunition in 30-06 & 300 win mag before. It is the winchester super x power point bullets that are designed to expand repidly.
They seem to do the ultimate job on elk at close range, from what i've experienced.
 
Josh

[Gmoney]

"A wounded elk appeared out of nowhere".....care to elaborate I am intrigued...?  Another hunter, disease, fighting? Could you tell what happened and how you think she happened upon you?

[hunterjosh]

"A wounded elk appeared out of nowhere".....care to elaborate I am intrigued...? Another hunter, disease, fighting? Could you tell what happened and how you think she happened upon you?

It definitly looked like a previous hunters shot gone bad, or mistake.

[MountainMafia]

The .243 works fine on elk if you limit the range that you shoot and go with 100 grain Nosler partition bullets.
 
I started my twin sons with a 243 and they both shot several nice bulls and cows and never need more than two shots. I have pegged a number of elk with the 243 myself. I consider the 243 an excellent deer and antelope rifle, but marginal for elk unless you are a very good shot. It is a sweet rifle to shoot.

[bigblock455skylarkcustom]

i just dont like small calibers for big game. A bigger caliber like a 270 is a lot more forgiving if you get a bad shot.