The .17 Predator on a Savage Axis Action

[gitano]

Just for information's sake:

The barrel blank weighed 8 pounds 8 ounces. The finished barrel - at least almost finished - weighs 4 pounds 12 ounces. A decrease of 60 ounces or 3 pounds 12 ounces. It will lose another 2 or 3 ounces as I take the 1/2" off of the muzzle, dress the breech, and make the final profile. Might possibly end up at 4 lb 8 oz, for a loss of 4 pounds even. A Boyd's laminated, thumbhole stock weighs between 2.3 and 2.5 lbs (according to Boyd's) and add a pound for the scope and mounts, and the total should end up around 8 to 8.5 lbs. That's not bad for a rifle with a laminated thumbhole stock and a "heavy-profiled", 26.5" barrel. Should tame some of that nasty .17 caliber recoil anyway.

Paul

[gitano]

So I decided not to use my normal fireforming procedures of charging with 12 grains of Blue Dot, filling with Ceam of Wheat (CoW), and topping with a small piece of toilet tissue. I was a little concerned that a large mass of CoW might find it difficult to get out of the small neck and down the bore, so I decided to just use bullets and 'modest' charges. I decided that 35,000 PSI was a reasonable pressure to work up a load for. Ran that spec through QuickLOAD for a 20-grain bullet. GADZOOKS! There is a whole armload of powders that give MVs in excess of 3800 f/s AT A MAX CHAMBER PRESSURE OF 35,000!!! IMR-3031 is supposed to yield 4009 f/s at that same 35,000 PSI!

I haven't shot them yet, so I'll be back later to let you know.

News at 11.

Paul

[farmboy]

Was in Sportsman's Warehouse yesterday, and bought all of the .17 caliber bullets they had in stock: 300 of them. Two boxes of 20s and one of 25s. All three Hornady.

It APPEARS to me that the .17 caliber is falling by the wayside. (No other manufacturer's .17s were in stock.) I'd have to say that the growth in .223 Remington as a result of the AR "craze" is part of the reason, but I think a greater cause is the .204 Ruger. I don't really care too much. Good cartridges have fallen to better ones and the fickle nature of the shooting community before. I am quite certain that the .17 caliber centerfire cartridges will 'last' me for the rest of my time 'here'.

Paul

Let me know if you need more I know where there are a bunch likely more money we pay lots for everything in canada
a
.

[gitano]

Thanks, farmboy, I appreciate the offer, but I have between 900 and 1000 bullets now, and that should do me for a while. Plus I have probably another 60 to 100 loaded .17 Rem cartridges.

I didn't realize you were a Canuck. What state in Canada are you located?

Paul

[gitano]

So I fire-formed 5 cases. Sure ends up with short necks! About 0.150". Less than a caliber. Average case capacity for 5 cases was 31.37 grains of water. That's a little over 18% more than the .17 Rem case capacity of 26.5 grains of water. It's really just an Ackley'd .17 Rem, without the 40 degree Ackley shoulder. The Predator's shoulder is 30 degrees.

Making cases is more time consuming and involved than Clements or the "greatest predator hunter in the world" (Dave Affleck) would have people believe. It will get a little easier once I get the dies all "set". j0e_bl0ggs and I have been discussing making a separate fire-forming "jig". It will consist of a .17 caliber reloading die blank with a "chamber" cut in it using the same reamer used to chamber the barrel. That die will be screwed into a "breech" and the firing pin will simply be struck with a hammer. Once I get 50 to 100 cases formed, I THINK the general resizing between shots should be fairly straight-forward and not too many intermediate steps.

"Film at 11."

Paul

[farmboy]

Thanks, farmboy, I appreciate the offer, but I have between 900 and 1000 bullets now, and that should do me for a while. Plus I have probably another 60 to 100 loaded .17 Rem cartridges.

I didn't realize you were a Canuck. What state in Canada are you located?

Paul

Alberta. I have read I  think it was on Hornadays web page that some of the less popular bullet sizes they were not going to worry about till the back log of orders on the popular  bullets was filled . They could do more total bullets that way. Our local store has about ten boxes of the 25 grain hollow points they are about 24 dollars a box ! ouch and a couple of boxes of the 20 grain v max about the same money. They also have a few boxes of 25 grain bergers.  It will look forward to hearing how you 20 grain v max works. I cannot get them to hold together though my 17 rem. i have not a bad supply personally as well but i have not bought any for a few years the last of them i bought were around 14 dollars a box. What did you have to pay?

[gitano]

I paid $22 per 100 for them.

I'm curious about your comment regarding "hold together" with respect to the 20-grainers. I've not had that problem, but I've not shot a LOT of them. I use mostly 25 grain Hornady spire points. It could be an issue in this rifle not only because of the high speed, but also because this barrel has a twist rate of 1 revolution in 8 inches. That's pretty fast. Assuming I CAN get 4600+ f/s out of this cartridge, that means a rotational velocity of 6900 revolutions per SECOND or 414,000 revolutions per minute. Can you tell me what let you know they were coming apart?

Paul

[farmboy]

I paid $22 per 100 for them.

I'm curious about your comment regarding "hold together" with respect to the 20-grainers. I've not had that problem, but I've not shot a LOT of them. I use mostly 25 grain Hornady spire points. It could be an issue in this rifle not only because of the high speed, but also because this barrel has a twist rate of 1 revolution in 8 inches. That's pretty fast. Assuming I CAN get 4600+ f/s out of this cartridge, that means a rotational velocity of 6900 revolutions per SECOND or 414,000 revolutions per minute. Can you tell me what let you know they were coming apart?

Paul

well with the difference in money they are about the same price! that does not happen very often most times we are 35 percent more.  When i was trying to sight my loads with the 20 grain bullet i could not hit the paper i finnally got close enough around twenty five feet that i put about fifty hole through the paper with each shot.

[farmboy]

I never have had a bit of trouble with the 25 grain hollow points. I have not shot any of the bergers i have although the gunsmith that made the rifle did and had no problems. nor have i shot any of the 25 grain v  max they are really hard to find in my neck of the woods.it is built on a number one with a 28 inch pipe.

[gitano]

I did an experiment on trying to get some bullets to come apart due to excessive angular momentum and was unsuccessful. Your experience - no holes at 100, many holes at 25 - is what it takes to demonstrate that it happens.

I would like to try some of the South African GS Custom bullets in 19 grains. They are solids, and have a very high BC for such a light bullet. They don't look like they'd be very good for game though, and they cost $64 plus shipping for 100 of them.

Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Oh man, no pitchers....

[gitano]

I'd be posting them now, but Photobucket is "down for maintenance".

Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

sheeesh...

[farmboy]

I did an experiment on trying to get some bullets to come apart due to excessive angular momentum and was unsuccessful. Your experience - no holes at 100, many holes at 25 - is what it takes to demonstrate that it happens.

I would like to try some of the South African GS Custom bullets in 19 grains. They are solids, and have a very high BC for such a light bullet. They don't look like they'd be very good for game though, and they cost $64 plus shipping for 100 of them.

Paul

ouch! but would be fun to try. Did you ever try any of the fifteen grain bergers?

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Not had any blowups myself even with those 17 grain bullets, if I recall they were motoring around 4400fps.