Gew 98

sakorick · October 27, 2007, 05:00:05 AM

I took a chance on Gunrunner's last online auction and bid on a 1915 Danzig. The bolt doesn't match the rifle but almost all the other numbers match. The real good news is that the bore is sensational. Most of the GEW's I've seen have real dark bores from nearly 100 years of abuse and improper storage. This one was saved by someone along the line and the bore is like new. Now I've got to figure out a load for the rifle and get some 7.92 bullets. Any suggestions? Regards, Rick.

LLANOJOHN (deceased) · October 27, 2007, 05:21:18 AM

Rick,

Looks mighty good to this ol' feller!:jumpingsmiley: You done good.

Are you gonna keep it original or do your usually good work?

Ol' John:end:

sakorick · October 27, 2007, 05:32:58 AM

Hello John. This one stays all original. Too nice to monkey with...the cartouches are very vivid. Regards, Rick.

sakorick · October 27, 2007, 05:48:18 AM

Here is a pic of the crests.....

gitano · October 27, 2007, 07:13:15 AM

Rick,

Congratulations! Looks like a great find.

As for bullets, I've been paper-whipping the Hornady 195-grain International, and I am seriously impressed. I have loaded some up, but haven't been to the range with them yet. They are quite amazing on paper.

As you know, I like to shoot light-for-caliber bullets if they will perform. Consequently, I have worked the 125 and 150 grain 8mm bullets over. However, none of the rifles I own shoot those two weights worth a hoot. I think the reason is that being milsurps, or derived from milsurps, they all have very long throats, and consequently don't handle short bullets well. I would expect your GEW to be the same, but you never know 'til you try.

As for me, I am bulding one 8mm Steyr specifically to shoot the 195 Hornady... and another with a throat suitable for the 125 :D. The 125 ahead of the Steyr case is a very interesting projectile.

Paul

sakorick · October 27, 2007, 01:40:13 PM

Hello all. From my feeble memory weren't all the German Mausers converted to the .323 bullet in the early 1900's? I wonder if that's what the S in the top of the barrel denotes???
I would suppose the action was built to sustain pressures of upwards of 50,000 CUP's.

That being the case, I suppose my regular load data will work for the GEW. I have a wide variety of 8mm bullets. I also notice the rear sight lowest setting is for 400 meters. They sure wanted to shoot at long ranges back in those days. Regards, Rick.

gitano · October 27, 2007, 06:44:40 PM

Yes, the "S" does denote the rebarrel to .323", and yes, your rifle can handle "normal" (50,000+ PSI) 8mm loads.

"Back in those days" it was still "volley" firing under command of the platoon leader, and 400m was good enough for the regular foot soldier... or so I read.

Paul

Brithunter · October 28, 2007, 01:30:56 AM

Hi All,

Yep nice rifle Sakorick

. Here we can get Privi Partisen bullets as componants and of course they do a 196 grain spitzer however the standard bullet used by the Germans after 1905 was a 154 grain spitzer so try so 150's after all that's what it was sighted for. beofre that it was a 220 grain round nose bullet and later the went to 196 fgrain bulelts for better use with MG's.

Have fun

.

PS... Of course S&B doe a 196 grain load and bullet, the SPCE one which might work.

kombi1976 · October 29, 2007, 05:01:44 AM

It never ceases to amaze me that rifles which are that old are still working so superbly.
But then the rifles they built then were hand matched and finished, not drop in jobs.
A great buy, Rick.

sakorick · October 29, 2007, 02:37:30 PM

Quote from: kombi1976;68154It never ceases to amaze me that rifles which are that old are still working so superbly.
But then the rifles they built then were hand matched and finished, not drop in jobs.
A great buy, Rick.

How true and you would think that the quality would go down as the War was on.....not so. This old GEW is simply superb. Kombi, you are very correct in your assessment......ever fired one? Just holding this rifle and working the bolt is a joy....it's like glass. For $300 bucks I purchased a hand made rifle that reeks in history....oh, the stories it could tell. I lucked out on this one! :) Stay tuned for range results. Regards, Rick.

mozark · November 09, 2007, 05:46:57 AM

I'll jump on the Hornady 195 bandwagon. Between 46 and 47 grains of Varget yields 2350 to 2500 fps. Clean burnung and superb accuracy in the 8x57.

WRT to the .318/.323 issue. The "S" mark on the barrel shank is for "Sprtzgeschoss," (spitzer bullet) and usually indicates that a good .318 barrel was re-throated for the new .323 bullet, and that the new ammunition could be fired in that rifle. Having enough diameter in the throat or leade to release the bullet from the neck is the issue, not firing a .323 bullet in a rifle with a .318 groove diameter.

Brief history:

The 8x57 cartridge was designed for the 88 Komission rifle, with a 220 grain Roundnosed bullet, of .318 diameter, at about 2200 fps. Bore was .311. Around 1900 a new round for the 8x57 was introduced. This was the 8mm IS (Infantrie Spitzgeschoss,) with a 154 grain, .323 diameter spitzer bullet at about 2900 fps. As this round was being developed it had been determined that barrel life was not long enough with the .0035 lands of the original .318 round so the new round was designed with the same .311 bore, but a .323 groove diameter for .006 lands. Older rifles that were re-throated for the larger neck diameter of the new round were marked with an S. The imperial Germans didn't have a problem firing a .323 bullet through a .318 groove diameter barrel. The added pressure of swaging .323 to .318 is predictable and doesn't seem to have concerned the Imperial ballisticians.

It's a bit of a myth with an internet life of it's own that the .323 bullets are the problem, rather than throat diameter. I shoot .318's in my Komission rifle in spite of it's "S" mark, because it's prudent and they're available, not because I'm really worried about pressure with .323's. Full pressure .323 loads were shot in GeW 88's and 98's with .318 groove dia's through the end of WWI. Still doesn't mean that it's not prudent to shoot .318 bullets in a .318 rifle.

Slug your bore.

MM

mozark · November 09, 2007, 05:48:11 AM

I'll jump on the Hornady 195 bandwagon. Between 46 and 47 grains of Varget yields 2350 to 2500 fps. Clean burnung and superb accuracy in the 8x57.

WRT to the .318/.323 issue. The "S" mark on the barrel shank is for "Sprtzgeschoss," (spitzer bullet) and usually indicates that a good .318 barrel was re-throated for the new .323 bullet, and that the new ammunition could be fired in that rifle. Having enough diameter in the throat or leade to release the bullet from the neck is the issue, not firing a .323 bullet in a rifle with a .318 groove diameter.

Brief history:

The 8x57 cartridge was designed for the 88 Komission rifle, with a 220 grain Roundnosed bullet, of .318 diameter, at about 2200 fps. Bore was .311. Around 1900 a new round for the 8x57 was introduced. This was the 8mm IS (Infantrie Spitzgeschoss,) with a 154 grain, .323 diameter spitzer bullet at about 2900 fps. As this round was being developed it had been determined that barrel life was not long enough with the .0035 lands of the original .318 round so the new round was designed with the same .311 bore, but a .323 groove diameter for .006 lands. Older rifles that were re-throated for the larger neck diameter of the new round were marked with an S. The imperial Germans didn't have a problem firing a .323 bullet through a .318 groove diameter barrel. The added pressure of swaging .323 to .318 is predictable and doesn't seem to have concerned the Imperial ballisticians.

It's a bit of a myth with an internet life of it's own that the .323 bullets are the problem, rather than throat diameter. I shoot .318's in my Komission rifle in spite of it's "S" mark, because it's prudent and they're available, not because I'm really worried about pressure with .323's. Full pressure .323 loads were shot in GeW 88's and 98's with .318 groove dia's through the end of WWI. Still doesn't mean that it's not prudent to shoot .318 bullets in a .318 rifle.

Slug your bore.

MM

BTW, this IS the internet, take everything above with a grain of salt. Just my understanding from many years of sifting through information on the extraordinary 8x57.

gitano · November 09, 2007, 06:04:13 AM

Good post Mozark.... especially since it cooroborates something I've been trying to get people to appreciate for decades :). Specifically, one does not need to be concerned with a thousandth or two of bullet diameter as long as handloads aren't at the upper end of chamber pressure to start with. Personally, I go considerably beyond "a thousandth or two".

As for shooting .318s in a .323, I think the reason this "works" in the 8x57 as far as accuracy goes, is precisely because of the relatively small bore of the 8x57 regardless of whether it's an "18" or a "23". Applying that to other milsurps does not "work". .308 bullets in .311" - .313" bores produce horrible precision, and I make that staement based on considerable experience with several rifles. Out of one 7.62x54R rifle I was unable to consistently hit a 3-foot x 4-foot board at 40 yards with .308" bullets. Changing to .311s, I could get 12" groups at 100 yds with open sights. Increasing the diameter to .314" reduced the group size to 6".

In the various 8mm-bored rifles I own and have slugged, I have never found a bore larger than .315" and many are at .312". I haven't a single milsurp rifle with a groove diameter smaler than .323".

Paul

Paul

mozark · November 09, 2007, 01:48:09 PM

True, true. I shoot 170 grain .318 RN's in in a particularly loose No.4 Enfield which has a .315 Groove dia. I just don't tell anyone. I'm sure that I should have been maimed (or worse) many times over for shooting oversized bullets in such a weak action.

MM

Paul Hoskins · December 08, 2007, 06:31:51 PM

Oversize bullets in the smaller bore aren't the problem that many believe it to be. I don't know about the accuracy but years ago when I was much younger and foolish, I rechambered a 7mm '98 Mauser for the 8mm cartridge and made a short taper cone throat. I fired the thing using a long string with the barrelled action stuck in an old automobile tire and tied down with a bungee cord. There was NO sign of excess pressure whatsoever. After firing it like this several times with no side effects, I replaced it in the stock and fired it from the shoulder many times. When I related this to P O Ackley, he told me he had fired the 35 Whelan in a 30 cal. barrel with the same results. This is something one should NOT do if they don't understand it completely. I would surmise accuracy is dismal at best tho. The bullet will size to the bore and the lead core being dead material will stay the same size after exiting the barrel but the jacket will spring back out some causing the core and jacket to have a space between them. Where there is little diffrence in bullet and bore size this won't be a big problem in my opinion............Paul H