Your choice of projectile weight

[RatherBHuntin]

22hornet,
 
That's a shame about the logging where you hunt. Lots of folks think an area that has been "clear-cut" logged is like a walk in the park. Nothing could be further from the truth - at least here State-side. What's left behind makes the area almost impenetrable. Here in Alaska, it doesn't run the deer off however because the area logged is restricted in size to leave plenty of surrounding forest. The deer even like it, 'cause they can maneuver in it quite well, and men and wolves simply cannot.
Paul

Aint that the truth.  They are nearly unhuntable EXCEPT in my neck of the woods where you can get up on a ridge over the clear cut and see into it...the problem is in the retrieval.

[gitano]

the problem is in the retrieval

Eggzackly!!!
 
Paul

[Paul Hoskins]

That's much the same case with old clearcuts and overgrown abandoned farms in Maine. You can't see anything ten feet in front of you. Try dragging a 250 pound bear through this stuff when you can't even see your feet. This is what bears like for a bait site. You have to clear out a place for the bait and sit in a stand on the hills beside these thickets where you can look down in them.........Paul H

[recoil junky]

My bullet choice depends on the calibre/cartridge.

35 Whelen, 250 grain Hornady spire pointe. Work well on anything I've pulled the trigger on, from prairie dogs to elk. Yes, the Whelen doubles as a pdog rifle as do all my hunting rilfes. Keeps the snot bubbles to a minimum in the off season.

300RUM, 180 grain Accubonds. They are accurate and seem to hold up to the velocities generated by this big boomer. Scirroco II's work well for pdogs but I quit using them for big game.

30-06 AI, 165 grain Hornady interlock boattails.  These seem to be very potent elk medicine. They hold together well at '06 velocties and penetrate well at all ranges and don't blowup or destroy much meet.

.243 Win, 85 grain Speer boattails. I've only killed one deer with this combination thus far and it was a pass through at 200 yards so I don't know what the bullet looked like.  

gitano, according to the pictures I've seen of cross sections of the Accubond and the Scirroco II's, the plastic tip butts up against the lead core. I'm not sure if that would really be a hollow point or not. Unlike the ballistic tip that has a space between the tip and the lead core. That I consider a hollow point and it shows it's stuff when used for big game. Pretty much disintegrates on impact. Just my thoughts and not those of gunrag writers, PTOOEY!!!

RJ

[gitano]

While I don't particularly agree about the plastic tip touching the lead core rendering a bullet something other than a hollow point, I certainly wouldn't argue about it. The terminal performance is what I'm interested in, and a Ballistic Tip performs like a large-meplatted HP... by design. Justified or not, that's precisely the complaint most-raised against them.
 
My comments should not be taken to mean that I have some bull-headed "allegiance" to hollow points. What I do have bull-headed allegiance to is bullet types that shoot straight, and that have good terminal performance. My 'defense' of HPs - not the same as blind allegiance - is due the the fact that most folks that bad-mouth HPs have not tried them, but are simply parroting some ignorant gunwriter (ptooey), and that some the same people that mean-mouth HPs, sing loudly the praises of Ballistic Tips.
 
If someone wants a 'theme' from me, it is: "Shoot the bullet that works for you, and let me do the same."
 
In my opinion, each of RJ's above listed bullet weights are just about exactly "middle of the road" for the chamberings. In most chamberings I have looked at, the light-weight bullets deliver the most energy to the target at ranges under 200-300 yds; middle-weight bullets deliver the most energy at most realistic hunting ranges; and heavy-weight bullets do poorly at both short ranges AND long ranges unless they are of boat-tail design. My experience is that light-weight bullets - as a class - tend to be better shooters than heavy-weight bullets. That excludes the bench rest category. That's not to say that there aren't very precise heavy-weight bullets or inacccurate light-weight ones.
 
My tendency to use light-for-caliber bullets has a lot to do with my self-imposed max range for big game at 300-ish yds. Any actual (as opposed to "paper") advantage of a heavy bullet just doesn't materialize within that range. The disadvantages however, do. I'll qualify that statement by adding that I don't consider a through-and-through hole an advantage. For those that do, heavy-weight bullets would have an advantage at ranges below 300 yards.
 
Dangerous game is a different matter all together for me. If I was choosing to get after dangerous game, the 'increase' I would seek would NOT be bullet weight, it would be bullet diameter. And, the choice of a hollow-point would have to be very carefully considered. But, as some of you know, I load the lightest-for-caliber bullet I can find in the .44 Mag revolver I use for "bear protection". The reason I do, is that I KNOW that it works for that purpose.
 
And we're back to using what 'works' for "you".
 
Paul

[klallen]

Reading all these posts talking about why folks choose what they do is always interesting.  Amusing, sometimes, but always interesting.  It reinforces the things that I feel are important and how these things lead to an attraction to the heavier Nosler Ballistic Tips for my hunting needs on deer sized animals.  High BC allows the bullet to retain and deliver a higher level of energy on game at any range down field.  This high BC also puts the bullet in a ballistic realm that very few could match, let alone, surpass.  The poly-tip design and thin jacket at the mouth ment for rapid initial expansion coupled with a tapered to heavy jacket designed to slow down that expansion, retaining weight as the bullet penetrates.  As a group of bullets, as easy to achieve accuracy as I've seen in every caliber class that I've worked with.  We've used these things in excess of 1000 yds. varminting so we've seen that accuracy held consistent well beyond accepted big game hunting distances.  It's just a wonderfully designed bullet that offers lots of pluses.  We've used them extensively over the years and have yet to see desintigrate on impact, even at the extremes of impact velocities.  Others tell different stories.  Our satisfaction with the BT's was amped a bit when we heard of the plans for the AccuBond line.  For big game hunting, I honestly couldn't think of anything better     ...     a Ballistic Tip + .  Very few things actually reach what I'd consider "perfection" but as bullets go, these AccuBonds sure come close for my needs.
 
On RJ's ballistic tip / accubond comparison, their nose design is exactly the same.  In both bullets, the poly-tip is nestled into the lead alloy core of both bullets.  The only space or gap that may exists might be on the sides, at the very tip, between the jacket and plastic.
 
Keeping in line with 22HORNET's shot requirements of keeping things close, it does open things up to many bullets that'd work.  If ya don't require a whole heck of a lot from a bullet, lots will do.  Using standard, slow rounds.  Shooting close ranges.  Things that exert very little stress on the bullet and under these conditions, pretty much any basic, run of the mill bullet will certainly function.  And we've used them with good success in our standard stuff.  Self imposed ranges of shooting at big game were discussed above and wonderful things for one to established.  We have considerations of our own with this regard that tend to be dictated by weather conditions and circumstances of a particular hunt more then anything else  Because of the wide open spaces we find ourselves in, we're prepared for the long stuff.  Just makes sense.  As such, heavy, high BC bullets pushed fast are the call of the day.  Later.  >>  klallen

[Brithunter]

Hi All,


Well this is confusing as I use a range of bullet weights for differing reasons. In my 30-30 bolt action I use 125-130 grain spitzers and they work well at about 2700-2800fps in the .308 I have not found an accurate load for the same bullets but it shoots the 165 grain Speers very well so I use them in the 7x57 I normally use a 139 grain bullet but I have been experimenting with the 175 grain bullets. Having used a RWS 173 grain H-Mantle factory load on a Roe buck with outstanding results, of course the H-Mantle bullet is a copper capped hollow point with a solid rear like a partition. I got the 175's originally to replicate teh original factory load in my DWM Mauser 93 but as I have not been able to replace the broken fore sight blade the project got shelved for a while and now the Police have put that rifle on the for collection only and not shooting list . In the .270 win the 130 grain seems to shoot best but the 150's shoot well having three .270 rifles complicates matters of course.
 

In .303 I have used the Hornady 150 grain bullet to good effect on deer however trhe most accurate bullet found so far has been the 174 grain Round nose and in 8x57 the Hornady 150 grain shoots well but so does the S&B 196 grain SPCE. Recoil is of course more noticable using the 196 grain bullet especially in my light weight P-H 1200 Super :undecided: .

In my 6.5x55's one shoots the 120 grain Speer very well the other prefers the 140 grain bullets neither of them have I found the right load with the 129 grain Hornady to equal the accuracy of the other bullets and both shoot the Hornady 160 grain Round Nose very well.

On our light Roe Deer I discovered that the 160 Grn 0.264 bullet loaded near max is just too much and results in lots of blood shot meat but it hits like a hammer. Likewise using high velocity, say over about 2800 fps can also have this effect but on the larger Fallow, Sika and Red Deer it does nto seem to have as much effect.


Due to Gitano's praise of the 115 (whoops what a typo) Grain Speer in 7mm I wil try to get some and try them in my rifle and if they are nice and accurate try them on Deer when I get the chance. So I actually have no real preference for bullet weights.

Edit:- Just goes to show that proof reading is required. I was disturbed and had to rush as Mum wanted something doing Sorry!

[gitano]

Just a little clarification there BH... It's the Speer 115 HP in 7mms.
 
I think it would be fine from the 7x57 for roe, especially given the ranges that you usually take them. I would be a bit more careful in its use out of a 7x57 case for sika and red deer at longer ranges. It works fine on caribou and moose out of a 7mm Magnum, with the 7x300 pushing that bullet at about 3500 f/s at the muzzle. It therefore maintains sufficient impact velocity to work as expected. Honestly, I wouldn't recommend its use unless it shot 'like a laser' - which it does in my large-cased magnums.
 
If you can get your hands on the Speer 130 HP in .308, I do suggest you give that one a try. (Of course, if what you're shooting "ain't broke" why fix it?) It shoots well out of my .308 Wins and has always done well for me on caribou. RBH is having good success with it on Georgia white-tails.
 
I have by the way, tried the 100 and 110 grain HPs in my 7mm Mags. While they shoot almost the same precision-wise, easily sub-MOA, their BCs are worse yet than the 115, and more importantly, their meplats are smaller. I don't recall having ever used either one on game.
 
Since I've talked so much about the 115 Speer HP in 7mm, and I'm sure very few have even seen one other than a picture in a reloading manual, I've attached a picture of one I sectioned.
 
Paul

[recoil junky]

gitano, here's a querry for your number crunching skills. (I have none, the missus won't even let me balance the check book)

OK, a bullet weighing 180 grains, sectional density of .271, BC of .507 leaves the barrel at 3270 fps.

A. What is the muzzle energy

B. What is the velocity and retained enrgy at 450 yards.

Thanks, oh most eminent number crunching guru

RJ

[gitano]

It'll be doing 2512 f/s and be carrying 2521 ft-lbs of energy.
 
Paul

[klallen]

With this talk about retained energy, it reminded me of a comment made earlier about delivered energy down range of the light bullets that had caught my attention and I've been tinkering with some numbers since, just to refresh the memory and do some comparisons with some of my larger rounds. Generating results from my knowns with the 160 (.284) and 180 (.308) AccuBond in the 7RUM & 7.82Warbird it's been interesting to compare how fast I'd have to get the light bullets going just to meet muzzle energy levels.  Course, we know meeting at the muzzle wouldn't keep things equal at any point down range but that's not any sort of eye opener as it's basic common sense stuff, but certainly interesting to see these types of comparisons and what would really have to happen. And it's always fun tinkering with numbers. >> klallen

[Brithunter]

Hi Gitano,

   I have edited my previous post to correct my typo why the heck I put 122 when I meant 115 grain I just don't know!

   I wonder if the 130 HP in .308 would work in the 30-30 Medwell at around 2750fps?

   As for shooting Roe Deer most shots are about 75 yards rarely are they over 150 yards not to say longer shots are not offered in some places, Scotland comes to mind and yes Roe are hunted in Scotland as they are very adaptable, but further down south like I am it's mainly woodland stalking and finding the Roe out of the field margins so the ranges are shorter, or you stalk closer, with practice it's possible to stalk quite close to Roe. Not easy but doable  of course High seats or Towers are used a lot with Roe especially in young plantations where it's damage control.

 My .308 does not seem to like the lighter bullets, or should I rather say that so far I have not found any loads that shoot well with bullets lighter than 150 grains. I brought the 165 grain bullets when I had the 300 Win Mag as that weight seemed to worked very well according to the loading manuals and as it turned out on paper too. Never got to hunt with the .300 Win mag as a lot of the guides here don't like magnums and let's face it Roe Deer don't require one.

  Now Klallen,

      Your type of shooting is so different from what I do you might as well be living on the Moon. Only is a few places in the UK are long shots a possiblity, I suppose in just the right circumstances here on the Fens that might happen but the chances of a building or the possiblity of a farm worker being in the line of fire of the shot fall out would be too great to make it safe.

[sakorick]

I trend to pick bullets with the higher BC's but not always as the twist has allot to do with long range accuracy. My current deer loads is as follows:

220 Swift = 50 gr Sierra
.243 = 95gr Nosler
257 AI = 120gr Nosler
6.5-'06AI =120gr Nosler
270 = 130 grain Combined Tech
7MM = 140 gr Nosler
7MM STW = ?
308 = 150 gr Sierra Pro Hunter
'06&AI = 150gr Pro Hunter/ 165gr Nosler
300WM = 180gr Nosler
8mm Mauser = 150 gr Sierra Pro Hunter
35 Whelen AI = 225 gr Nosler

[gitano]

As for shooting Roe Deer most shots are about 75 yards rarely are they over 150 yards not to say longer shots are not offered in some places, Scotland comes to mind and yes Roe are hunted in Scotland as they are very adaptable, but further down south like I am it's mainly woodland stalking and finding the Roe out of the field margins so the ranges are shorter, or you stalk closer, with practice it's possible to stalk quite close to Roe. Not easy but doable of course High seats or Towers are used a lot with Roe especially in young plantations where it's damage control

[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Pretty much what I was talking about. As for the 130 in the .308 Win, it was just a thought. As I said, if it ain't broke, there's no need to fix it.

Rick,

I think except for the 150 in the 8x57, I'd call your choices pretty much middle-weights for caliber. High BCs, heavy-for-caliber, light-for-caliber, hollow point, "bonded" core, "ballistic tip", "partition", boat-tailed, flat-based, cast or jacketed... it really doesn't matter. The one that "works for you" is the "right" bullet.

Paul

[kombi1976]

We have Klallen's situation here in Oz, although the difference is few of the game we hunt would require a big cal.
Sambar deer, the size of elk, are usually hunted in close cover as are other deer and for the most part it's only roos, foxes, hares and bunnies which stretch to 200 or 300 yards.
Perhaps the odd pig or goat too but they tend to stick to cover.
Mind you, if you were in central Australia in search of camels or donkeys I can perhaps imagine a 7mm STW or 300 WM being at asset.