Bison!

[gitano]

More to follow.

Paul

[gitano]

Story in a day or two. He was a beaut! Estimated weight - 1500 lb!







Paul

[Jamie.270]

Wooo-Hooo!


Can't wait for the "Paul Harvey!"

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Cool! Looking forward to Bison jerky!

[gitano]

Cool! Looking forward to Bison jerky!

That's precisely what my grandson said!

Paul

[Paul Hoskins]

Well, congratulations,  pal.   .....I've been sitting on the edge of my seat leaning forward watching the screen ever since you left for the hunt. Now we all want  to hear the details & see more pictures before I go completely blind. .......Paul H

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

680kg, thought they were much bigger than that. Friends Charolais bullocks were approx 900kg  - 2000lb ish. Then again looking at pics the rear end is not same as domestic beast!

[Paul Hoskins]

I have always been very good at judging weight of beef & best I can judge from the pictures, I am inclined to think 1400 to 1600 pounds on the hoof. Since bison have small hind quarters I cannot get a good picture in my mind like domestic beef on the hoof. That's a good beast at any rate. I'm curious about how it would taste if canned. I don't like bison meat any better than domestic beef but all I've ever eaten was farm raised. I think wild bison would be much better. ......Anxious to hear how the 416 performed.   .......Paul H

[Hunterbug]

WOW! Very nice, Paul. I look forward to the whole story. Now you need to make room for the shoulder mount.

[gitano]

Thanks!

No shoulder mount on this one, HB. To me, wall mounts should highlight the individual animal and the variety within the species. It's my opinion that if you've seen one bison mount, you've seen them all. I WILL, however, be getting the hide tanned.

By the way, hung from the front loader, he was 144 inches (12 feet) long from hind hoof to nose.

Paul

[gitano]

I'm waiting for my son-in-law to come help me get the head and hide out  of my truck. I can't lift the head (still attached to the hide), by  myself! I'm certain that the head and hide weigh no less than 200 lb;  maybe 300.

Attached are two pictures that I am REALLY glad Rick  got! They are actually of my bull when we first saw him! The first was  taken with Rick's telephoto (focal length 300mm I think), and the second  with the "standard" focal length, I think 28 or 35mm. He is 2 miles  away. (We know that, because the field he is at the end of is 2 miles  long, and we were back from "this end" of the field about 100 yd. I spotted him as he emerged from the woods on the right.






I'll start writing the story up this evening.

Paul

PS - For those wondering, I shot him with the .416x.348 Win with the 500-grain Hawk bullets.

Paul

[gitano]

I will not shoot another bison unless it is in the processor's yard.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

LOL,....


Funniest "stuff" I've read all damned day!

[gitano]

Just got the official age of the bull from the Department of Fish and Game biologist: 8.5 years.

Paul

[sakorick]

OK so here I was. Paul and I worked the Scheme to end all schemes. WOW! what a stalk. We had everything going for us on the last day....it snowed and silenced the foot noise. Paul shot the bruiser with with less than 10 minutes before total darkness. The animal was 12 feet tall from the front hooves to the nose. This was a dream come true and with less than 30 seconds left in the game! Here are some pics with more to come and later.

[Jamie.270]

Holeee Mackerel but that's a lotta animal!


Brisket for days!
Hmmmm, I wonder how good a Texas BBQed Bison brisket would be.

[gitano]

Since I have already chronicled the load development and other matters associated with this hunt in other threads (http://www.thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20372, and http://www.thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20287), I’ll spare you by not recapitulating that and instead, start with sakorick’s arrival in AK.

Rick came in at 1:05pm on Wednesday, October 2. I met him at the airport in Anchorage but we didn’t head straight back to my house in Wasilla. Instead, we stopped at a friend of mine’s house to look at a 4-wheeler (“you guys” call them ATVs), and a trailer (to tow it) that he was lending me. I hadn’t yet really decided that I needed a 4-wheeler. Ultimately, I decided that I wouldn’t take it. That proved to be a good decision. (Actually, the fellow offering me his 4-wheeler was a THL member – KnotHead.) After leaving KnotHead’s house, we went straight to my house across the valley. We got Rick settled in, shot the breeze for a few hours, then hit the sack.
 
 
 We were headed for Delta Junction the next morning, but there was one last task to attend to. It was early October in the Interior, and I would be driving my little 1986 Nissan 4-wheel-drive pick-up “off road”. Experience with Hunterbug hunting elk in northern Colorado lead me to believe I would be better off having chains for it and not needing them, than needing chains and not having them. (This little pick-up is a REAL 4-wheel drive vehicle, not the “all-wheel” type hyped today.)  It was a 7 hour drive but we didn’t need to get an early start as there was no pressing issue to attend to in Delta Junction  except check into the hotel we were staying.

The tire chains had been a small ‘issue’. First, CarQuest didn’t have any that fit the tires on the Nissan: second, then NAPA didn’t have any ‘in store’, but there were some in the store in Palmer. Since Palmer was on the way to Delta Junction, I just paid ($300) for the chains in Wasilla, and had them hold them for me so that I could pick them up in Palmer on our way to Delta. We got to the Palmer Napa a little after 9am as I recall. They had my chains. Sorta. They only had one pair. GRRRrrr, However, the NAPA store in Glennallen, half way to Delta, had a pair, so I had them tell the Glennallen store to hold them for me. We picked them up when we stopped in Glennallen for gas and a snack.

The road to Delta Junction is one of the prettiest drives in Alaska in my opinion. (I think Rick would agree.) Rick took ‘a ton’ of pictures on the way up, (and half a ton on the way back), so I’ll let him share those. I took a few, and I have attached the ones from Wasilla to Glennallen, below.










I don’t recall exactly when we got into Delta, but I think it was around 6pm. We saw a moose and a fox just on the outskirts of town.









We checked in to the hotel, and had dinner.

The next morning (Friday) bright and early, we drove out to the “hunting fields”. I had been told by the guy whose land I wanted to hunt that “the first guy that shows up with $400 get the first shot”. Since Rick and I only had two days to hunt – Saturday the 5th, and Sunday the 6th – we needed to be the first to show up with $400, and we were. We spoke with Steve Helkenn for a while to get a clear explanation of the boundaries to his propery, and to get clear instructions on what he wanted us TO do, and what he wanted us NOT to do. He was a pleasant fellow, that in conversation revealed that he had 5 sons. (I’ll come back to that.)

We took a look around his property to familiarize ourselves with the ‘lay of the land’ then went over to another land-owner that was pleasant on the phone, and allowed people to hunt his land FOR FREE. On the phone with him, he had already revealed that some of ‘his’ hunters had been successful. However, he ran his operation on a ‘first come, first served’ format, and while Rick and I were “on the list”, there were too many people ahead of us for us to have ANY chance to hunt his property while Rick was with me. Still, I wanted to ‘press the flesh’, and have a face-to-face conversation with him to ‘seal the deal’ of getting my name on his list for later. He was just as pleasant in person as he was on the phone, and Rick and I spent about an hour chatting with him. He assured me I was “on the list” and that he had my phone number.

From Randy Speckles house, we went to the “Delta Bison Range”. A large area on the south side of the Alaska Highway developed by the Department of Fish and Game for the purpose of attracting bison off of the agricultural fields on the north side of the highway. Within the larger area were two fields that were roughly 2 miles by 5-6 miles. They had been cleared like barley fields, and various grains and forage crops planted. (Much like Rick’s forage plots on his farm.) The idea was to attract the bison off of the farmers fields and prevent or reduce the harm they did to the farmer’s crops. Good idea, but they didn’t get the bison’s input before implementing it. The bison just decided to have their cake (the farmer’s barley and hay), and eat it too (the Delta Bison Range). They ate what they wanted from the farmer’s fields, THEN went over to the Bison Range. Nevertheless, it was a great place for bison. Of course, it was FREE, and therefore, competition between hunters was significant. I paid the $400 to avoid that competition/conflict as well as be able to hunt a place KNOWN to have bison on it.

That afternoon at 2pm, (Friday, the day before I was legal to hunt), the Department was offering an “Orientation” briefing. This briefing was mandatory, but you could take it on-line OR in person. I had already taken it on-line and had the certificate, but felt that “being there” in person, in Delta might help with the hunt. Both Rick and I attended. It was a good presentation, and while there was nothing ‘new’ presented, the questions asked by the other hunters in Group 2 (the group I was in and that could start hunting on Saturday the 5th), helped clarify some things. I asked the biologist giving the briefing if there were any “Annual Reports” for this project. He said “yes”, but they weren’t “annual”. The reporting requirements were “every 5 years, and I’m working on the latest one”. I said “Fine. Could I have a copy of the most recent one?” Before he could answer, I asked, “Is it available on-line?” To which he replied “Yes”. He had mentioned Delta Bison Management Plan in his briefing. I asked if I could read that on-line too. He said “Yes”, and then offered to print out a copy for me right then. I said “Please”, and he did so. Rick and I took the Management Plan and headed back to the hotel where we had prime rib for dinner. We discussed The Plan for the next morning, and then hit the sack.

Finally! It was ‘Opening Day’! (For Group 2 hunters.) Only 30+ years in the making. We got our war-suits on, and headed for the Helkenn's place. We got ‘on scene’ at 0701. It was an elevated place between some of his barns overlooking a field right in front of his house. I shut the engine off and Rick stepped out of the truck to relieve himself. I turned my head to the field. YIKES! There were 5 buffalo about half way down the field! (A mile off.) I hissed to Rick “BUFFALO!” and motioned for him to get in the truck. He motioned back that he couldn’t do that right at that moment. :D I grabbed my binos and had a closer look. Every one was a bull! Rick climbed back in the truck and had a look with his binos. There were two more! YEE HAA! First day. First light. Buffalo in sight!

We watched them for a few minutes, then came up with a Plan based on the cover we had. The buffalo were about a mile away and right in the middle of the field. On the right was a windbreak of trees about  20 or so yards deep. On the left was a similar windbreak a little narrower and not as thick. (See the picture below.)


There was essentially no wind. The Plan was for Rick to get behind the windbreak on the right and head up the field toward the buffalo. I would get behind the windbreak to the left and do the same. Rick went on the right in case he spooked them I would get a shot as they broke out of the woods in front of me. If they didn’t spook, I would break out of the woods into the field and start blazing. “The best laid plans of mice and men, oft go astray”. About half way down the field I hear a vehicle. Hmm… Pretty soon, I can see it through the trees. It’s driving right down the road on the side of the field the buffalo are on! It comes to the top of the field near the Helkenn’s house, turns right, and drives across the tops of all of Helkenn’s fields. I have no idea what the status of the buffalo are. I creep out to the edge of the field they were in. They’re gone. “Drat!” Is sort of what I said. I walked back to the top of the field, across it, and over to the field Rick was walking up. I cut his tracks in the VERY crunchy snow. (I forgot to mention that it snowed a very wet snow over-night, and then froze. It was VERY LOUD walking.) I followed his tracks for a bit, then cut back across the woods to the in-field road. I found him in a couple of hundred yards. He hadn’t heard or seen the truck that spooked the animals.

We got back in the truck and started scouting the other fields that belonged to Helkenn. No more bison, but we saw several fresh sets of tracks. All of them crossing the fields about a mile to a mile-and-a-half down the field. We decided to come back that evening and see what might show up in the first field. The bison hadn’t been shot at and we figured they might come back in the evening.

We got back to Helkenn’s place about 7pm. Right out there about a mile and a half were the bulls! And there were a couple more. (I forgot to mention that Fish and Game had said that the bull:cow ratio was about 90:100! So the odds of seeing a bull were very good.) We watched them for a few minutes weighing two strategies: 1) Get after them. Go now and try to get within shooting range before 7:30 (dark). Or 2) Leave them and come back in the morning hoping they are there over night and we can put a stalk on them. After consulting Steve, we chose option 2.

We were back earlier next morning. On scene well before daylight. Right away, I saw two bulls MUCH closer! Lasered, they were about 450yd from the truck. Too far for my tastes, and no way to get closer by going directly at them. The Plan was for me to take off on foot and head due west toward the windbreak trees to the left (west) of the field and bison. Then, sheltered from view, I would descend to the level of the field and, using the trees for cover and try to get within range – 200 or less. Rick would stay in the truck and watch.

The Plan proceeded as planned. I stepped out of the windbreak at about where I thought the bulls would be about 200 yd away. No bulls. Dang! I headed back to the truck. When I got there, Rick was hopping mad! The SAME truck that had busted the stalk the day before HAD DONE IT AGAIN! It had driven up, spooked the bulls, and turned around and driven away. Now EYE was @#$%^&*ed. We took off after the interloper, and if we didn’t find him, we were going to visit Speckle and find out for certain if it was one of his hunters. If it was, Steve could file trespassing charges, and I could file hunter harassment charges. We didn’t find him, and it wasn’t one of Speckle’s. We chatted a bit with Steve, and put together another Plan. Since the bulls hadn’t been shot at, we figured that they might come back for an evening browse. We would come back in mid-afternoon, and I would set up on the west side of the field, midway down (about a mile), just inside the trees. If they came out ‘above’ me, Rick would honk the horn (from between a couple of Steve’s barns), twice. If they were ‘below’ me, he would honk once. (I forgot my walkie-talkies. )

We thought we might buy some walkie-talkies in Delta Junction, but we both forgot it was Sunday. Then Rick remembered that there was a military base nearby, and the Post Exchange might have some. It was closed too. We went back to the hotel and took a nap. :D

About 3pm, we got up, had some coffee, and headed for Helkenn’s. When we got there, we saw three people with rifles, walking on the road on the east side of the field we were hunting! AGAIN! I went and got Steve, and he said “Is it three people?” I said “Yes”. He said, “With a kid?” I said, “I don’t know. Why?” He said he had taken another $400 from a threesome and told them they could hunt, but not until tomorrow, as we would be gone by then. Grrr… We went out to meet them.

It was a little ‘dicey’ at first, but the damage was done, and after getting things cleared up, they left and said they wouldn’t come back until tomorrow after we had left. They weren’t much as ‘stalkers’, but… the wind had come up out of the west, and they had walked the full length of the field, TWICE. We were certain that the bison had winded them, and the chances of them coming out before dark were slim. Nevertheless, I told Rick “You can’t hit home runs if you don’t go to bat”, and decided to stay until it was too dark to shoot, in the off chance the bulls would come back. We sat for a couple of hours. Then, WAY down at the very end of the field, I see a bull come out of the trees on the east side of the field!



He’s two miles off.



It’s pretty late to get the two miles to him, and he seems to be walking with a ‘purpose’. Meaning he wasn’t stopping to graze. I figured he’d just keep on walking. However, when he got to the west side of the field, he started grazing. Hmm… We watched. Probably 10 or 15 minutes went by. It was VERY difficult to see him in the fading light. I decided we should get after him. We had nothing to lose.

The Plan was to drive about a mile down the west side of the windbreak located the west side of the field. I would get out, cut through the woods and head straight at him. There was a little ‘indentation’ in the treeline, and I could stay hidden until I was within 200yd. I told Rick that I could walk a mile in 20 minutes, so he would stay in the truck, give me 20 minutes to get to the bull and shoot him. If he didn’t hear any shots in 20 minutes, he was to come get me. We executed the Plan.

Once in the field, I hustled as fast as I could. Light was fading fast. As you can see in the pictures, there were many ‘ditches’ that crossed the field transversely. They were 3 to 5 feet deep and about 50 or so feet wide. I was coming up out of one of the deeper ones when I saw him. He was about 80 yards off, and looking right at me. However, in the very dim light, I could see NO details. I couldn’t see his head or his horns or any detail – just a bison-shaped black hulk. I threw the Ruger No.2 to my shoulder to see if I could see any more detail through the scope. Nope. I could have “center-massed” the point of aim and had it be a very good shot, but, I KNEW that if I did that the bullet would go straight to a horn as if laser-guided. I aimed slightly to the left and let fire.

I didn’t hear the “whack”, and that bothered me a bit, BUT, he didn’t run. If I had missed, he would have bolted like a bullet. He turned to his left, exposing his right side broadside. I shot him right in the heart. The “No.2” is a No. 3 that has been converted to ‘something else’. Being a falling block action, it was of course a single-shot. I had had the second shot in my hand ready for the follow-on, but all subsequent rounds would  have to be dug out of my pocket. By the time I had reloaded, he had gone about 40 yards due east, back towards the woods from whence he came. He was limping a bit, but not the typical leg-lifted limp of an animal with a broken leg/shoulder. He stopped, and I shot him again. Right in the heart. He started running in a circle. Not the one-leg-on-the-ground pivoting circle, but running around in a circle about 30 feet in diameter. When he stopped, I shot him AGAIN. Another shot in the chest. He STILL DIDN’T FALL! SUNNY BEACHES IN CALIFORNIA! I stopped shooting. He clearly was mortally wounded, and not running away, so shooting him some more would just waste meat. He stood for about A MINUTE! Then, he didn’t fall over, he LAID DOWN! With his HEAD UP! SHIITE MUSLIMS! I walked up  behind him and stopped about 10 yards away. I tried to see if he was blowing blood, and he wasn’t. That concerned me a bit, but still, he was certainly mortally wounded. After about another minute, he laid over and shortly thereafter expired. I approached VERY cautiously, and tried to poke him in the eye with the muzzle of the rifle. Trouble was, it was so dark, I couldn’t see where his eye was! Nevertheless, he was dead.



HE WAS A BEAST! And gorgeous. I can JUST get my index finger and middle finger of each hand ringed around his bases – barely. I measured his tip-to-tip distance at 21”. I haven’t yet made any other horn measurements. I took a couple of pictures with my cellphone, and began to look for Rick. In a couple of minutes, I could see the headlights of the truck heading slowly down the west side of the field next to the trees. In a minute, Rick stopped to call out. I said “Over here” as I walked toward him and pointed to The Beast.

As you can imagine, there were plenty of big smiles.

I’ll save the rest of the story for the next post.

Paul

[sakorick]

When Paul headed out, I remained in the truck for about 15 minutes and headed out to watch from the swale. There are about seven of these spread out down the field. It was about 7:40 and getting dark fast. I couldn't see much through my Zeiss binos as I knew Paul and the beastie were about 1200 yards down the field. Then I heard the first report and was smiling with joy until seconds later off went #2.......not good. Then a pause for 15 seconds or so and Ka Boom, #3. I could just picture a Buffalo running at 40 MPH and Paul trying to load the Alaskan one shot at a time in the dark! Then number four and waited for a minute or so and went back to the truck. I got to about what I thought was the spot and got out and hollered Paul...... He said over here about 2/3 of the way across the field and the reality set in....Bison Down!! As soon as I turned towards him, I could see the big black hump and it was a monster. There was no way that we could do anything with the animal so we went to get Steve and the 4WD John Deer. More later.

[Paul Hoskins]

Good story & good job. Congratulations again. I was right there with you guys while reading your story. I didn't even feel the cold. ......If some ignoramus had intruded while I was hunting bison, it would have been extremely difficult for me to be civil. .......Great  job & a great story. Thanks for taking me along on your bison hunt of s lifetime.   ......Paul H

[Paul Hoskins]

Paul, I'm curious about your 1986 Nissan PU. That's an old truck. I bought a new 1986 1/2 Nissan PU in 1986 called a HARDBODY. It didn't have 4WD but I never really needed it. It was a strange vehicle & was "bare" when I bought it. No bumpers, power steering, no AC , no radio, Nothing. It had the customary 4 cylinder engine  but looked "different." It had 8 spark plugs one distributor and two coils. The distributor had 8 lobes like an 8 cylinder distributor. A few months later the Nissan factory in Tennessee wanted it back. They claimed it was an expeirmental truck that wasn't supposed to be out of the factory & for sale to the public. Best vehicle I ever owned even after I put 409,000 miles on it. ......Just curious. Haven't seen one like it since.   ......Paul H

[gitano]

Thanks, Paul.

My Dad bought this truck at auction in Kalifornia. It originally belonged to the State of Kalifornia Department of Parks. I drove it to Alaska in January back in about 2005 while towing a Volkswagon Golf my Dad gave to my daughters for their first car. At the moment, it only has 114,000 miles reading on the odometer. I assume it has not 'rolled over', but it may have. It of course had all the Kalifornia 'smog' krap on it, but that has been disconnected as much as possible. It doesn't get great mileage - about 17 mpg when in 2WD on the highway doing 55 or so. We put 450 miles on it while in Delta Junction. (Plus 350 to DJ, then 350 back.) I haven't yet calculated the total trip mpg, but I suspect it will be less than 17, as we spent a lot of time in 4WD low range while in Delta. Also, we were doing around 65mph most of the way to and from DJ. It's been a workhorse for me. I don't use it a lot, but it's a REAL 4WD with both high and low range plus of course 2WD. I'm pretty sure I could climb a tree with it if I needed to.

Paul

[gitano]

Here's what the Richardson highway looked like between Delta Junction and Paxon, (about half way to Glennallen) as we drove back. Once we got past Paxon, the sky cleared and the road was dry. We were able to make good time from there back to Wasilla.

Paul

[sakorick]

Comms. Since we had our cell phones communications was not going to be a problem until I got off the plane and tried to call Paul. My phone said no service!!!! and I didn't bring any walkie talkies. Then in Glennallen it was working fine....whew! When we stopped at the summit, I tried my cell and ptoey, no service....my cell phone was useless. It was Sunday when the reality set in....we needed walkies but the sporting goods store was closed on Sunday. Ft Greely is just a few miles out of town and Army PX's are open on Sunday. The gate guard was admiring my 34 year old ID card and I asked him directions to the PX. He said the PX is closed on Sundays! So we came up with the horn plan. One toot close and 2 toots far. Thank God we didn't have to honk! 2 miles is a long walk in the snow with darkness fast approaching. Our plan worked and all's well that ends well. That truck was amazing with a fan belt screaming and a shot driveshaft hangar bearing! Paul is a good driver but does nor slow down in "Rocks on the Road" areas. Dodging cinder block rocks is not easy with  1500 pounds in the bed!!

Food: Our motel had an excellent restaurant which was very reasonable. Pictures to follow.

[sakorick]

Rick Day 1. For me the first leg involved getting the dogs to the Vet Clinic then switching cars and driving to Kansas City. I spent the night at Eric's and he drove me to the airport at 0400(day 2). Rick's, Eric's Plane, Paul's. Left on Tuesday arrived at Paul's on Thursday.

[gitano]

First shot broke shoulder and lodged against the outside of the chest.

Second shot center-punched the heart.
Entrance:



Exit
 

Third shot just barely scraped the heart, but hit it. I could trace the path from entrance to exit and across the heart.


Shot through the heart was approximately 4 minutes before he died.


They're beasts.

The trimmed heart weighed 7lb 6oz.

Paul

[gitano]

Backstraps ("prime rib") weighed 12 and 13 lbs.

Tenderloins weighed 4lb 14oz and 5lb 5oz.

I haven't weighed the quarters yet.

I haven't weighed the guts - lungs, liver, 4 stomachs, intestines, kidneys - but I am quite confident in saying that they were at least 200 lbs. The rumen had at least 100 lb of grass in it. The liver was, as you would expect, humongous. I could weigh it, but I probably won't.

I still have the ribs and neck to 'process'. I'll let you know what they weigh.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

First shot broke shoulder and went into chest.

Second shot center-punched the heart.
Entrance:



Exit
 

Third shot just barely scraped the heart, but hit it. I could trace the path from entrance to exit and across the heart.


Shot through the heart was approximately 4 minutes before he died.


They're beasts.

The trimmed heart weighed 7lb 6oz.

 Paul

OMG,...  That looks GOOD!


Nice shootin' too!

[gitano]

"Good" to eat, or "good" to die?

I just revisited the load development thread and the average muzzle velocity for the 500-grain bullet was 1812 f/s. So at 80 yards, the impact velocity should have been about 1730 f/s, and the impact energy should have been a little over 3300 ft-lb. At a hundred, the IV should have been about 1700 f/s and the IE just over 3200 ft-lb.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

"Good" to eat, or "good" to die?


Paul

Good to EAT!
7lbs of stuffed heart!
A little sage, a little crumbled sausage, some diced apple and chopped onion.
A bacon strip or two over the top, roasted with some broth in the bottom of a dutch oven at about 300* for a couple hours,...


7+ lbs of Heaven on a Plate!

[gitano]

Already pressure cooked. :D It will be sliced thin for sandwiches.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

Already pressure cooked. :D It will be sliced thin for sandwiches.

 Paul

Got any horseradish?

[Paul Hoskins]

Excellent shooting and excellent bullet placement under any circumstances, Paul. I would think the meat would be excellent canned. It could possibly be canned with seasonings too. Saves on freezer space. Canning would cut down on cooking time. That alone makes preparing dinner faster. .......I love canned goat meat & planning on canning some venison this fall if I can come up with one. One of my 'girlfriends' was visiting yesterday & asked if I wanted a deer if she killed more than she can use.  My next door neighbor asked the same question. I'm thinking it would be great after canning.        ......Paul H

[gitano]

All meat eaten so far has been excellent. In fact, I would say it's second only to wild sheep, and equal to elk.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

All meat eaten so far has been excellent. In fact, I would say it's second only to wild sheep, and equal to elk.

 Paul

And just think, there's a 3-5 year supply of it!
LOL

[gitano]

I can assure you that it won't last that long. I have already had several requests from children and grandchildren for various pieces! BUT... I suspect it will last for the year at least. I'm going to take Paul Hoskins' advice and can a mess of it. Much will be jerked.

Paul

[Hunterbug]

and equal to elk.

Paul

Don't get carried away now!

[Jamie.270]

I can assure you that it won't last that long. I have already had several requests from children and grandchildren for various pieces! BUT... I suspect it will last for the year at least. I'm going to take Paul Hoskins' advice and can a mess of it. Much will be jerked.

 Paul

I'm curious to hear what your best estimate (or documented) of weight of boned out meat is from this critter.
We should have started a pool and had members guess!


Guess the weight of vittles from Paul's beastie bison!


I would think it has to be somewhere near, and maybe even north of 600lbs.


Do you plan to keep at least a couple of shank bone sections for soups too?

[gitano]

When you have to do things by yourself. Put hindquarter on plastic sheet. Drug ~50yd to deck. Drilled holes in deck for hanging rope. Attached block and tackle and hung HQ like I knew what I was doing.



The head and hide are in a big plastic container. There is NO DOUBT they weigh AT LEAST 200 lb. I can't even budge the plastic container to slide it. Hooked come-along to front of rack on PU, backed truck up to container, put a jerry-rigged ramp on bumper and pulled it into the bed like I knew what I was doing. (No pictures of that.)

As for "total meat weight", I can't promise anything. This thing is a real beast to deal with. I've been runnin' and gunnin' for the past three days trying to stay ahead of pouring rain and "the beast". Like being between a rock and a hard place. I've already eaten the tail and some "hump". The heart's cooked, but I got a weight on that before I cooked it. As for the rest, I'll do the best I can to record it, but as I said, no promises. I think something near 600 might be close.

Paul

[branxhunter]

Terrific story Paul. Fantastic to see it all come together after the months of cipherin' and testing.

Fantastic shooting too when the pressure was on - must be very satisfying to have made those shots with a single shot.

That is a whole lot of meat - the photo of the skinned and hung carcass certainly shows just how big that beastie is.

Marcus

[Jamie.270]

How long do you expect to hang those HQ?
And are you expecting any visitation of the ursa variety because of it?

[Paul Hoskins]

Paul, I've been around a bit of skunt out beef hides & beef heads & I can assure you the bison hide & head are considerably  north of 200 pounds. .......Usually after the hunt & kill the real WORK begins with large animals. Few people realize just how much work is involved. The average deer hung up by the head, I can skin in 10 minutes. Lower legs removed with the head tied to a post & laid on a  tarp on the ground, I can skin one in around 6-7 minutes by pulling the hide off  with a 4 wheeler or tractor. It's nothing like skinning a big beast. That's WORK from start to finish. .......Paul H

[sakorick]

Terrific story Paul. Fantastic to see it all come together after the months of cipherin' and testing.

Fantastic shooting too when the pressure was on - must be very satisfying to have made those shots with a single shot.

That is a whole lot of meat - the photo of the skinned and hung carcass certainly shows just how big that beastie is.

Marcus

It was the "perfect storm". The wind, darkness, snow and most importantly the Beastie was a loner. I was impressed with Paul and his concentration, not sure I would have held up under the pressure, shooting off hand, at the trophy of a lifetime!

[gitano]

The front quarters weigh about 80 each, the hinds, about 100 each. With caribou quarters, I prefer to hang for 10 days at these temps - high 30s. With these, and as the temps lower, I'll go at least that long. I'll be checking them every day. While I did have a big brown bear cruising through here at one point, I have neither seen nor heard of one in at least 10 years. I'm not concerned about bears.

Paul

[gitano]

I got the hide to a tannery today. Here are some pictures of the skull without the lower jaw, and some measurements.

Widest spread: 24.5"
Tip-to-tip Spread: 20.25"
Right Horn Length: 16.5"
Left Horn Length: 16.375"
Right Horn Base circumference: 13.5"
Left Horn Base circumference: 13.375"

The whole head from the front. I didn't notice the eye. :o





Just the horns from the front.

 




Just the horns from the rear.

 



Various pictures of the horns.

 









Minimum Boone & Crockett score is 115. This bison scores, (unofficially of course), 105 and 5/8ths. Sounds about right to me. Boone & Crockett doesn't accept bison from Alaska. Go figure. We have four WILD, FREE RANGING herds. I never did like B&C.

Paul

[sakorick]

Gosh, What a trophy!!

[gitano]

Along with the whitetail, a classic American game animal.

Paul

[gitano]

With the addition of this bison, I wuz thinking about "classic American game animals". I have been fortunate enough to collect most of them. One glaringly missing is the ELK!

Here's the list:
Bison - :D
Moose
Caribou
Black bear
Coastal Brown Bear
Grizzly Bear
Rocky Mountain Goat
Dall Sheep
Whitetail Deer
Mule Deer
Blacktail Deer
Pronghorned Antelope
Wolf (trapped)
Turkey
Wolverine (trapped)

"Missing"
Bighorn Sheep - Very unlikely that is going to happen.
ELK! - Can't say I haven't tried!
Polar Bear - Couldn't  happen since 1972. :frown
Musk Ox - Not likely
Alligator - Not likely, but possible.

The bison was a 'bucket list' sort of animal as it is so difficult to get access/permission. I suppose the only one left within reason is the elk. Gonna hafta get one of those one of these days.


Paul

[Jamie.270]

I will not shoot another bison unless it is in the processor's yard.

 Paul

Thinking more about this,....


It's almost epitaph worthy.
It would certainly make a good sig line.

[gitano]

I think the "right" way to take a wild, free-ranging bison is to have 'transportation' from the kill site worked out before the hunt. We were very fortunate to have had the front-loader available. Second, you should have 'disassembly' planned a priori. We were very rushed by the late hour and the need to be on the road early. Third, you need a place to butcher and process. I think we could have taken this bull straight to a meat processor in Delta Junction, but I shudder to think what the cost would have been, plus the requirement to return to DJ to get the meat.

Knowing what I know now is useless, (except the marginal value to another hunter), as I won't be able to even apply again for 10 years.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

I think the "right" way to take a wild, free-ranging bison is to have 'transportation' from the kill site worked out before the hunt. We were very fortunate to have had the front-loader available. Second, you should have 'disassembly' planned a priori. We were very rushed by the late hour and the need to be on the road early. Third, you need a place to butcher and process. I think we could have taken this bull straight to a meat processor in Delta Junction, but I shudder to think what the cost would have been, plus the requirement to return to DJ to get the meat.

Knowing what I know now is useless, (except the marginal value to another hunter), as I won't be able to even apply again for 10 years.

Paul

I'm really kind of surprised the ADF&G don't make a point of letting hunters know about this in the orientation process, so that tag holders would be a little more aware/prepared.

Would they have allowed you to leave the gutpile if you had wanted to process it in the field and dismember it there?

Or would the landowner have?

[gitano]

F&G does as good a job expressing the 'seriousness' of the task as one could expect. However, there are two wrinkles in that 'solution':
1) F&G exaggerates the severity of EVERYTHING. In fact, EVERY gov't agency does. The sky is going to fall; civilization as we know it is going to end; etc. So that when it's actually TRUE, few of us believe them.
2) Those of us that have killed and carried and processed 1200lb moose aren't 'impressed' with the thought of a 1200lb or so, bison. "Meh. I've done that." Trouble is, 1200lb and four guys isn't 1500 lb and one guy. (Once I got it home.)

The front-loader was a God-send. Having his shop to skin and de-head the beast was a God-send. The farmer's boys said we could have gutted it in his shop, but I REALLY didn't feel comfortable doing that. We took the head and both front quarters off in the shop so it would fit in the back of my truck. It was essentially 'live weight' when it got in my driveway. I had to "deal with it" at that point. Off and on, it poured rain. I had to work around the guts until I could get the weight down to something remotely manageable. When it would start raining, I had to cover with a tarp and wait for it to stop. I couldn't carry the front quarters more than about 10 feet. The hind quarters were too much to move without jerry-rigging something. The head and hide were immovable and required considerable machinations to move. Had he been gut-shot, I'd have lost a lot of meat.

The only requirement by the farmer was that we leave no bones in the field. We could have gutted the beast in the field BUT... At the time of the kill, I wasn't absolutely certain it wasn't shot in the gut at least once, and 1) I wanted the bullets if they were in there, and 2) I wanted the liver. (I didn't get the liver anyway because it stayed with the guts for too long.) My job would have been considerably easier had we gotten one earlier than the last night at dark. Also, I assume those that are willing to pay $2000 for a trespass fee aren't too concerned about forking over the cash to drop the animal off at the meat processor in DJ. (Also not concerned with the waste those guys perpetrate!)

So.... I would not accuse F&G of failing to attempt to impress people with the magnitude of the job. I would greatly thank the farmer for all he DID do! We had no agreement with him beyond trespass. (He did get $400 for his efforts though.) F&G has no requirements regarding gutpiles unless you are cleaning up a road-kill in which you have to remove the carcass and all remnants of it "from public view". None of which applies to any hunt.

I haven't had a chance to 'wand' the shoulder or the lungs for bullets. Those 500-grainers expanded, but they also 'plowed'. The only one I'm expecting to find is the one in the shoulder. It will be great if I find one in the lungs. As I said, no shots behind the diaphragm so I don't need to wand the guts.

In the end, a bison just isn't an animal a single person should take on without a plan for obtaining some form of help including taking it to a processor.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

Hmmm, okay.
Not gutting it ASAP after the kill is something I wouldn't have thought of.
That was always rule #1 among the "hard and fast" rules I was taught from Day1.


Get the animal gutted and the meat cooling as quickly as possible, and salvage the heart & liver immediately.



I know gutting an elk makes a huge difference in one's ability to move the animal, as does skinning it.  But they're only about half that weight, or a little more.

Fortunately my elk have always been in the snow, so I had that going for me as far as moving them after the kill.
But an elk, gutted, skinned and sectioned will fit back in the hide and the bundle can be dragged/towed over snow more easily than most would believe.  Especially downhill. (Just try and keep up!)

The hide isn't as pristine when it's over with, but the hide isn't what I was after.

[gitano]

In my opinion, people worry way too much about "getting the guts out". The guts are in the animal for its whole life and yet they don't 'stink up the meat'. A few more hours won't matter. As soon as I say that, people say "it's about the heat". OK. The body has been "hot" all the animal's life too, and yet... If the ambient temperature is above 50F, getting the guts out fairly quickly is my goal too.

Gut shot is another matter. There isn't "fast enough" if the animal is gutshot. Also, we hung the beast from the front-loader from 0230 until we dropped it in the back of the truck the next morning. Then it was in the back of the truck 'til it got to my place, and you saw the road we drove. My driveway  has been freezing or near-freezing since we returned from DJ.

People care for their meat in myriad ways. If you can eat it, it's 'OK'. It is my opinion, that most meat is ruined in the kitchen, (and wasted at the butcher), not in the field.

Paul

[gitano]

I got my daughter to take a picture of me holding the skull.



Paul

[Jamie.270]

I got my daughter to take a picture of me holding the skull.



Paul

There ya go.
That's just awesome!

[gitano]

Thanks!

Paul

[Jamie.270]

So, are you having the skull beetled?
Or boiled/bleached?

[gitano]

I will be boiling and bleaching it for a wall mount. But... It will be one that can/will come off the wall to be handled.

Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

hmmm, can feel an Anglo-Alaskan self levelling easy detach mount coming on...

[Bill Thibeault]

Paul, GREAT story and pics!  Pulling the trigger is the easy part!  I can't imagine trying to handle an animal that big after it is down.  A New Mexico Oryx (shot on the US Army's White Sands Missile Range) is the largest animal I ever shot. Its live weight was estimated at 300-350 pounds.  I took it straight to a processor, as I've never butchered a large animal.

Again, WELL DONE!!!

[gitano]

Thanks, Bill!

As for the "Anglo-American Self-leveling Hanger" - may be.

Paul

[Paul Hoskins]

Self levelling hanger. .......Coat hanger. They work.     .......Paul H

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Forgot the 'earthquake-proof' bit

[gitano]

It's all in pieces and hanging. What a chore. An amazing amount of meat on the ribs, and the hump is all "backstrap"! I was tempted to take the neck bones for soup, but I'll get good soup bones from the legs without the hassle of messing with neck vertebra. My GUESS at total meat is between 5 an 6 hundred. I don't think the live weight was over 1400. He had VERY little fat on him. None over the tops of the haunches which is where deer, (moose, caribou, and 'deer') usually have a big slab, and the "net" around the stomach was almost not there at all.

So far no bullets. I can't find my metal-detecting wand so I can't wand the lungs/etc. The heart shots were pass-throughs and I'm pretty sure  the lung shot was a pass-through. The shoulder is the only hope I have of recovering a bullet at this point.

Tomorrow, ribs for dinner, and I start canning. I intend to can A LOT.

Paul

[Paul Hoskins]

Paul, I've been wondering how canned meat would taste if canned with a good pickling spice added. Yesterday my neighbor gave me around 10 pounds of fresh venison. Today or tomorrow I'm gonna can it & add pickling spice. Should be interesting. Most likely can it in pint jars. Muffin doesn't like venison & I'm the only one to eat it. ........Paul H

[gitano]

I'm keenly interested in how that turns out, Paul.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

Paul, I've been wondering how canned meat would taste if canned with a good pickling spice added. Yesterday my neighbor gave me around 10 pounds of fresh venison. Today or tomorrow I'm gonna can it & add pickling spice. Should be interesting. Most likely can it in pint jars. Muffin doesn't like venison & I'm the only one to eat it. ........Paul H

Very similar to corned beef, just more lean and less fat.
Depending on the balance of spices of course.

Much like corned beef round, rather than corned beef brisket.

[Paul Hoskins]

I canned the venison today. I just cut it into small chunks & put it in pint jars & added half a teaspoon of canning salt & a teaspoon of Amish pickling spice and added water. This Shipshewana pickling spice is the best I ever used. It's not sold in stores to my knowledge. That's also what the owner of the company told me. ......The venison my neighbor gave me was just two huge backstraps. I didn't pre cook it. Got six pints but didn't pack it down in the jars. Might open a jar tomorrow & fry it but I'm thinking it will be better after sitting a couple weeks. .......Paul H

[gitano]

I canned 7 quarts yesterday. I know hearing me say how big this thing is, is getting 'old', but this thing continues to impress me with it's mass. That 7 quarts didn't even dent the "pieces" (hind quarters, front quarters, backstraps, tenderloins, neck, and "pieces") sackS. I'm going to have to get a LOT of "Texas Brisket Rub" for jerky. I attached an image of the TRIMMED backstrap. Cut off short of the hump.

Paul

[Paul Hoskins]

I opened a jar of the venison back straps this afternoon & smelled it. First thing that came to my mind was spam with a spicy smell. It didn't have any "deer" smell at all. I decided to make a veggie stir fry & put the venison in it. I started by frying the meat in the pan with butter & garlic powder. Mistake. The meat turned out tough. It was so tender coming out of the jar a fork just tore it up. I used the tongs to get the rest out. I added carrots, onion & broccoli. The meat was tough. TOO TOUGH. There was little venison taste at all but more like spam with a spicy flavor. Now I'm thinking next time I can venison, I'll add half a teaspoon of seasoned meat tenderizer per pint. Maybe I should have cooked it in the pressure cooker before canning. That's more work. .......The canning book recommends adding tomato juice but I seldom do anything by the book. .......Paul, I know what you're going thru. That's a heap of meat. Jerky is work too but delicious for snacks.   ......Paul H

[Jamie.270]

I canned 7 quarts yesterday. I know hearing me say how big this thing is, is getting 'old', but this thing continues to impress me with it's mass. That 7 quarts didn't even dent the "pieces" (hind quarters, front quarters, backstraps, tenderloins, neck, and "pieces") sackS. I'm going to have to get a LOT of "Texas Brisket Rub" for jerky. I attached an image of the TRIMMED backstrap. Cut off short of the hump.

Paul

Have you found a good butcher that can/will grind you some burger?
(Not for the backstraps obviously, but for some of the rest of it)

[gitano]

I grind my own burger on an 'as needed' basis. Sausage is another matter. I like what the pros do there. (I don't like their prices - $2.75 to $5.00 per pound finished - though.) I'm sure I'll have some Summer sausage made. I think the going rate for that is $4.50/lb finished weight.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

I grind my own burger on an 'as needed' basis. Sausage is another matter. I like what the pros do there. (I don't like their prices - $2.75 to $5.00 per pound finished - though.) I'm sure I'll have some Summer sausage made. I think the going rate for that is $4.50/lb finished weight.

Paul

We used to do that.
Until we came home with 5 elk one year.  We'd have been grinding for three days (evenings) straight after spending 1/3rd the price of processing just buying fat, spices/cure for the sausage and that much more butcher paper.

So we took it in to someone with a commercial grinder and picked it up packaged into 1lb & 2lb packages, and already frozen, 3 days later.  Mostly burger with some breakfast sausage.

It was worth every penny considering how much there was of it, how much freezer space it was going to take up, and how many people would end up involved.



That much meat requires huge amounts of space in the initial freezing process.

Just something to think about,...

[gitano]

This is the "chronicle" thread, so I'll post some pictures of taking the quarters apart:


Here's the whole left front quarter "inside".






And here's the "outside".


Total weight with bones - 76.5 lb (I trimmed more off of this quarter when I removed it.) The other is pushing 100.





Here are all the joints exposed. From the left: wrist, elbow, and shoulder.





Here's a shoulder joint for ya!





The shoulder joint exposed.






The elbow.






All of the bones once the meat was off. The scapula (shoulder blade) is 23.5" long, the humerus (upper arm) is 14", and the radius/ulna pair (lower arm above the wrist), 16".




Took two hours and 15 minutes to bone this front quarter. It's been 'hanging' for 12 days (since the bull was killed). Honestly, I could EASILY leave it another 14 in this weather. It's perfect for hanging. Overnight temperatures down to about 28F, daytime temps up to about 41-43, constant slight breeze. PERFECT. However, the "experts" at the butcher where I will be taking the meat for sausage-making are too stupid to understand what properly aged meat is and I'm afraid they would either refuse to take it, or WASTE A WHOLE BUNCH OF IT by "trimming" off the "bad stuff", if I wait any longer. The last time I took 138 lb of BONED caribou to a local butcher that was supposedly "trained by Germans", I got back FORTY POUNDS! When I expressed my displeasure, he told me he had to trim off all of the "skin"! It was a good thing for him that I'm not a violent person. SO... I won't age this meat as long as I KNOW it SHOULD be aged, in these perfect conditions, because - once again - I am forced to deal with "experts" that are IN FACT, stupid, arrogant, morons.



Paul

[Jamie.270]

However, the "experts" at the butcher where I will be taking the meat for sausage-making are too stupid to understand what properly aged meat is and I'm afraid they would either refuse to take it, or WASTE A WHOLE BUNCH OF IT by "trimming" off the "bad stuff", if I wait any longer. The last time I took 138 lb of BONED caribou to a local butcher that was supposedly "trained by Germans", I got back FORTY POUNDS! When I expressed my displeasure, he told me he had to trim off all of the "skin"! It was a good thing for him that I'm not a violent person. SO... I won't age this meat as long as I KNOW it SHOULD be aged, in these perfect conditions, because - once again - I am forced to deal with "experts" that are IN FACT, stupid, arrogant, morons.

Paul

Ah, now I understand your reluctance to use a butcher for the grinding process.
I'd be P-O'ed too!  

Every time we took meat to Eddie-the-butcher we got back more weight than we took in, because of the fat he added.
We always took it in trimmed and chunked and ready to be ground, and he approved of our trimming jobs.

He added about 8-12% beef fat to the burger grind, and about 15% pork fat to the sausage grind.

[gitano]

I'm tired of buffalo. I'm tired of eating it. I'm tired of cleaning it. I'm tired of smelling it. I'm tired of cooking/canning it. Sheesh. Probably shooda just dropped it off at a processor before I ever brought it home! I think I could have 'handled' the waste by the butcher! I have 21 quarts of 'stew' canned, and I still have 3 quarters to process!

I appreciate that whining about having excess food is 'wrong', but MAN! My nose and stomach cannot be swayed by 'philosophy'.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

I wish I was closer pal, I'd be there with apron on and knives in-hand and saw on my hip.
Oddly enough, it's a part of the process I've always really enjoyed.


But I can see how dealing with that much of it could wear on someone.

Keep at it, even if it means being a vegetarian/piscatarian for a month or so until your sense of taste/smell returns to normal.

[gitano]

I appreciate the sentiment, Jamie.270.

 As a rule, I don't 'mind' the butchering, and I'm very meticulous (making it extra tedious), but it's been two full weeks since I shot this thing, and I still have 3 quarters hanging, one sack of ribs, and one "pieces" bag to trim. (We - wife, son-in-law, daughter, and I - had HALF a rack of the ribs for dinner tonight.) Tomorrow, I'm thinking of taking one hindquarter and 50# of 'scrap' to the butcher. The 'scrap' will become summer sausage, and the hindquarter will be 'dressed' at $1.35 x incoming weight. (I haven't weighed them yet, but they are more than 100 lbs a piece.) That is if they make sure to return MY bones to me. If they do a satisfactory job on that hindquarter, I'll give them the other hindquarter to do and I'll do the other front quarter, as it has the only potential for having a bullet in it, and I wouldn't trust them to save it for me. I'm still eating heart sandwiches for lunch!

Paul

[Paul Hoskins]

Too much of a good thing unless you own a meat processing plant. ......When the boys from Maine came down deer hunting several years ago they brought a 2 horsepower meat grinder. Good thing too because we had 14 deer to take care of. My little 1/2 HP grinder would have burned up. We had 6 men & a boy working & had a system. Everyone has a job  & it worked out really good. We were done in two days. Skunt out, quartered, cut & packaged & ground and frozen. A deer is not a bison. .......Paul H

[gitano]

I'm 'giving in' and taking a hindquarter plus about 100 pounds of neck meat to the local meat processor this morning. According to his web page, he will take in a hindquarter, bone it, trim it, make steaks, roasts, and burger for $1.20/pound intake weight. I'll have 70# of summer sausage ($3.29/lb finished weight) and 62# of burger ($1.29/lb finished weight) made from the 100# of neck meat. (40% increase for sausage, 20% increase for burger) The burger will be bagged in 2# bags, and the steaks and roasts vacuum packed. I'm figuring about 80# of meat off of the hindquarter, plus the 130+ pounds from the neck for a total of 210 pounds delivered for about $300 or about $1.45/lb.

Provided they do at minimum a "satisfactory" job, that's not a bad deal. And, as I said, if I like the end product, I'll give them the other hindquarter.

Rounding the weights, between the neck and four quarters, there was about 500 lbs of meat. The ribs, backstraps and tenderloins account for about another 100, (there was an amazing amount of rib meat), for a total of about 600. Assuming a 40% "recovery" rate, that puts the live weight at about 1500 lb. That's pretty much exactly what we figured when we looked at him hanging from the front loader.

40% 'recovery' is less than I get from caribou and young moose. I get pretty close to 50% with them. (I've never shot a really big bull moose.) Departments of Fish and Game around the country say most people get on average about 35% recovery from whitetails and mule deer. (That's because most people take them to butchers - an appropriate term for what those "experts" do!) I have been thinking about the relative weights of the bison head and hide, as well as their slightly denser bones. I haven't yet figured out if the proportions are different, although I suspect they are. I can tell you that the wall thickness on this bison's leg bones is thicker than the wall thickness on the leg bones of moose and other deer I have looked at. In other words, there's more percentage of marrow in a "deer" leg bone than there is in a bull bison's leg bones. I have always read that the skin on a bison's back was as thick as 1". Again because of my experience with "deer", I never believed that. I was wrong. "Bos" (cattle) are different than cervidae ("deer"). The skin on the neck and down most of the shoulders is every bit of 1 inch thick on a big bull bison!

Paul

[Jamie.270]

Wow, no wonder the hide was so heavy.  I'm curious to know how much shrinkage there will be after drying/tanning!
I take it this tanning job will be "hair on?"
And will you be getting the leg bones back, and/or have them sawn into soup bones?  Or will you get them back whole and do that yourself?
I've never tried marrow from a cervid, but bison/buffalo marrow should be close if not identical to beef.

[gitano]

Tanning is "life-size", hair on, without hooves. Full "face". (The bison's face was GORGEOUS! 3 to 4 inch-long VERY curly black and brown hair.) I don't expect too much shrinkage in the skin, as it will be thinned significantly before tanning. I can stretch it (with a 'ring' of nails), soon after tanning (like what would be done if it was going to be made into a wall-hanging rug), oil it, and it will be purt' near "original" size when dry.

I will be getting the leg bones back. I emphasized that to the butcher, TWICE. I will be making "soup bones" from some of them, but not as many as I might have because I had a bit of a windfall when I went back to the butcher to take the second hindquarter to him. :D

This is why I took the second hindquarter to him before getting the "results" back from the first hindquarter/pieces batch:
I was able to speak with THE person that was doing the butchering, and I told him I didn't want the shanks cut off the bone, "I will take care of that."
He said, "Do you want me to cut it in chunks?"
I said, "No. Just leave it on the bone. I'LL GET IT WHEN I GET THE BONES." That way I am more assured of getting my bones back.
I also said, "DO NOT TRIM THE DRIED "SKIN" off of the hindquarter!"
He responded, "You want me just to leave it on the steaks and roasts?"
I said, "Yes."
He said, "You can trim it off when you prepare the steaks and just throw it in the pressure cooker and re-hydrate it."
I said "EXACTLY!"

So he illustrated that he actually UNDERSTOOD what I wanted. By doing that, and the fact that I'm feeling a little 'pressed', I decided to take the other hindquarter to him today. Plus, I wanted to RE-emphasize that I wanted MY BONES BACK!

Here's the weight info:
First hindquarter - 94 lb
Second hindquarter - 95lb
First bag of "stuff" - 50.2lb
Bag of neck meat - 56.3lb

Total weight 295.5 lb. I estimated about 50lb each for the "bags", and "over" 100lb each for the hindquarters for a total of 300 lb. I was off by 4.5lb (if you don't count the "over 100" estimate"). I'm 'good' with a 5 pound out of 300 error (1.5%). That lends a bit more credence to the live-weight estimate of 1500.


I should net about 80 lb from each hindquarter plus 79lb of sausage and 66lb of burger for a total of 305lb "out" for 295lb "in". That's assuming they don't get 'carried away' while processing my meat.

The "windfall" I got was...
There were probably 20 "legs" (scapula-humorus-radius/ulna [the front leg bones], and femur-tibia/fibula-metatarsals [hind leg bones]) from moose and caribou in bins, waiting to be picked up by dog mushers. I asked if I could have some of them. "Take as many as you want" was the reply! :D I only took two front legs at this time. When I go back to pick up my meat, I'm going to get several femurs.


So, God willin' and the creek don't rise, I'll get a good outcome from taking the hindquarters and "pieces" to a local butcher. I REALLY hope I haven't made ANOTHER mistake trusting a butcher...

Paul

[sakorick]

My bet would be that you found a good to go butcher!

[Jamie.270]

My bet would be that you found a good to go butcher!

It certainly sounds that way!


I've got my fingers crossed for this being the case Paul.


PS: We always referred to that dried "skin" meat as the rind.
And the only reason to EVER trim it off is if a stray hair or two found it's way on some.  Even then the trimming of it was always carefully done.

[gitano]

First -

Because:
1) I have MY bison leg bones back, and
2) I have four legs each from a big bull moose and a bull caribou. :D:D:D:D:D

Now then... I have also heard the dried outer layer of a quarter called the "rind". Because I learned it first, the word that comes to mind for me is "fell", which is German for "skin". I may have heard "fleischfell" or "meat skin", but the most common word I heard used is "fell". AND... I have heard American butchers call it "fell", without knowing the origin or meaning. Whatever it's called by whomever, I am pretty sure my meat will have the rind/fell still on it when I get it.

Secundo - Some of you MAY have heard of Akutaq AKA - "Eskimo Icecream". For a VERY long while, even the natives argued VIGOROUSLY that it's ORIGINAL ingredients were Crisco and berries, meaning that it couldn't have shown up on the gustatory landscape until at least 1911 when it was first produced commercially by Proctor and Gamble. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisco) It is only recently that the native Yupik community (and I), have prevailed in getting the REAL ingredients - the ingredients I was given as a kid - back into the 'real world'. What I had as a kid was moose and caribou (whichever was available) bone marrow mixed vigorously with whatever berries were at hand. For me that was always highbush cranberry (Viburnum edule), lingon berry or "lowbush" cranberry (Vaccinium vitis-idaea), or salmon berry (Rubus spectabilus), or blueberry (Vaccinium alaskaense), or Kinnikinnik AKA bearberry (Arctostaphylos uva-ursi), or any combination thereof. Honestly, I'm not sure there is a "modern" icecream I like better. I can't remember the last time I had it. I will be having it this evening if I can get my hands on some berries!:jumpingsmiley:

So... I AM a 'happy camper'! Here's hoping they don't 'butcher' my meat to badly!

Paul

[Jamie.270]

[sakorick]

Bring some south!

First -

Because:
1) I have MY bison leg bones back, and
2) I have four legs each from a big bull moose and a bull caribou. :D:D:D:D:D

Now then... I have also heard the dried outer layer of a quarter called the "rind". Because I learned it first, the word that comes to mind for me is "fell", which is German for "skin". I may have heard "fleischfell" or "meat skin", but the most common word I heard used is "fell". AND... I have heard American butchers call it "fell", without knowing the origin or meaning. Whatever it's called by whomever, I am pretty sure my meat will have the rind/fell still on it when I get it.

Secundo - Some of you MAY have heard of Akutaq AKA - "Eskimo Icecream". For a VERY long while, even the natives argued VIGOROUSLY that it's ORIGINAL ingredients were Crisco and berries, meaning that it couldn't have shown up on the gustatory landscape until at least 1911 when it was first produced commercially by Proctor and Gamble. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisco) It is only recently that the native Yupik community (and I), have prevailed in getting the REAL ingredients - the ingredients I was given as a kid - back into the 'real world'. What I had as a kid was moose and caribou (whichever was available) bone marrow mixed vigorously with whatever berries were at hand. For me that was always highbush cranberry (Viburnum edule), lingon berry or "lowbush" cranberry (Vaccinium vitis-idaea), or salmon berry (Rubus spectabilus), or blueberry (Vaccinium alaskaense), or Kinnikinnik AKA bearberry (Arctostaphylos uva-ursi), or any combination thereof. Honestly, I'm not sure there is a "modern" icecream I like better. I can't remember the last time I had it. I will be having it this evening if I can get my hands on some berries!:jumpingsmiley:

So... I AM a 'happy camper'! Here's hoping they don't 'butcher' my meat to badly!

Paul

[gitano]

I don't suppose you mean akutaq. :)

I WILL be bringing sausage, steaks, and maybe jerky if I get it made in time.

Paul

[gitano]

For those interested: https://www.thebutchersguild.org/meat-glossary

"Fell" - The fell is the paper-thin covering of outer fat on a roast. It is  usually removed for small cuts, like chops, but kept in place for roasts  and legs because it helps retain the shape and juiciness when cooking.


Never heard it used that way, but then I'm not a butcher. I have heard American butchers use the term "fell" though. Maybe it was in the above context. Nevertheless, in German butchery, "fell" means skin or ... "rind", :grin: among other things of course!



Paul

[Jamie.270]

Let's try the German word "Rinde."


https://www.dict.cc/german-english/Rinde.html



 

Rinde {f}
bark
 crust
rind [of cheese]gastr.
cortexanat.
peeling
outer layer

That works for me.

[gitano]

Certainly "works" for me, I just never heard anything but the word "fell" in the context of hanging meat.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

Certainly "works" for me, I just never heard anything but the word "fell" in the context of hanging meat.

 Paul

I have no quarrel with the use of the word "fell" as applied in the definition you cited.
But "fell" strikes me as something that grows on the meat within the animal and is retained in the butchering and aging processes.


Whereas "rind" is something that forms on the meat as it dries from dry-age hanging, because it wasn't there to start with.





And actually, I think at this stage we're gettin' kinda nit-picky!  :D
Dear Mr butcher,...
Call it whatever you like, just don't trim it off!

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Never heard fell apart from fell over when it was shot, rind is the common expression regarding the dried meat layer here.

[gitano]

I got the meat back from the butcher today. (Earlier than I thought.) I gave him 300lb including hind leg bones and got 280lb back. Very pleased with that ratio alone. Got 102lb of 'burger', 74lb of summer sausage, and the balance (104lb) in "steaks and roasts". Total cost was $641.49 or $2.29/lb of finished meat. I tasted the summer sausage :D, and we had burger for dinner. I am VERY happy with this! I momentarily thought "Dang! I shoulda given him the whole thing!" However, on further reflection, I did it just about right. I processed the parts that I could do in a timely fashion AND the way I wanted. Had I dropped off the whole animal at the butcher, I probably would have paid at least $1000, and still would have had to do all the canning. Nevertheless, future animals will go to this butcher, with small exceptions.
 
 Paul


PS - Now that I think about it, I recall that I "took back" my leg bones with the gastrocnemius (hocks) attached. They were every bit of 10lb each. Therefore, I gave him about 280lb, about what I got back. Given that ratio 1:1, the cost per pound was about $2.14. Not a big difference, but more accurate.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

Really glad it worked out for ya Paul.
And the really good news is, you've found a processor you can trust to not rake you over the coals in the future.

[Jamie.270]

And just in case I forget, or it doesn't get said enough, Thank You (and Rick too!) for taking us along on this little adventure of yours.


It's just one more thing to love about this place.

[gitano]

Thanks! Like I said, future animals will go to this place. Game processing at $1.29/lb incoming is a great deal. Considering what you get back - packaged burger, vacuumed steaks and roasts, and "stew meat" if you want - it's a great deal. Most importantly, they do a good job!

Tomorrow the other front quarter and smoked ribs, and I'll finally be finished with "the beast"!

Thanks again.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

Just curious,...
Did they freeze that burger for you?  Or would they have if you had asked/paid?

[gitano]

Yes. Sort of. They will store your stuff for three days without cost. Stored, it will freeze. However, I picked it up as soon as they called me.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

Sounds like you found your own version of our "Eddie-the-butcher."
Good ones like that are worth every penny.

[Paul Hoskins]

Paul & Rick. thanks  for taking us along on the bison hunt of s lifetime. It was rough at times but we made it. All is well that ends well. I never had any doubt's about being successful but was a bit concerned about getting the beast out & processed without losing some meat. Fortunately, the weather was about perfect. Thanks to the meat processor, the ordeal is about over. For that I'm thankful. I was getting tired from all the work. Now we  can all sit back & talk about the hunt & decide what to do with the  skull and hide.That's all minor worries now. ........Paul H

[gitano]

The hide's taken care of, (money the simple solution of course), but the skull remains an open issue. I checked around, and the cheapest I can find for simple cleaning and bleaching is $400. That, frankly, is absurd. In the past, I have maintained a dermestid beetle colony for cleaning bones/skulls, but I don't (didn't) fancy starting up a new colony for this effort. (There's a bit of danger associated with maintaining dermestid beetle colonies.) However, I'm thinking about doing just that. Boiling is a bit problematic due to the size of the skull and the season-winter. I THINK I'm going to get the beetles after it, pressure-wash it, and then bleach it. At the moment, given the season, it's a relatively low priority.

I'm taking the right front quarter apart this morning. Maybe I'll find a bullet. Keep your fingers crossed.

Paul

[gitano]

We're getting down near the end of this saga. There will be some later posts when I get the hide back from the tannery and when I get the skull taken care of, but this is going to be close to the last "meat" post for sure.

As I mentioned, I took the last quarter apart today. It was the one that took the first shot. (The front right.) The front quarters came off the carcass while it was hanging in Helkenn's shop that first night. Therefore, it's been "hanging" for 18 days. It is perfectly aged. PERFECTLY! It has a smell that is impossible for me to describe other than "sweet". If you've ever smelled a properly aged piece of game meat, you'll know what I'm talking about. Otherwise, it defies description. (As most smells do.) I'll tell the story with the pictures.

Here are two pictures of the whole quarter: "Inside" and "Outside".









Next are pictures of the wound. These first ones are just generally looking at the wound from the "inside", before I start the dissection.





And a little closer.

The above  pictures are essentially looking "back out" through the wound channel.

Once dissected, here's what the humerus and scapula looked like. First the whole joint exposed.





Now a couple of the head of the humerus:






Notice that the head of the humerus is broken into at least three pieces.

Here's the "socket" end of the shoulder blade (scapula):








And he didn't really even flinch. He just turned sideways so I could shoot him in the heart. He didn't flinch then either, just took off running.

Now here are some interesting pictures that, I think, will clear up the "fell" vs "rind" issue. "Fell" is most often used (when not discussing butchery), as "fur". In the following pictures, you will see some white "fur". This is EXACTLY what I STRIVE to achieve with my hanging/aging, and I am fairly certain this is the "fell"  or "fur" that I so often heard used in Bavaria when describing PROPERLY aged game meat. I always assumed they were referring to the "skin" or "rind", when in fact, they were most likely being more specific and referring to the mold that forms on the outside of the "rinde".


































99% of Americans are so obsessed with "cleanliness" that the thought of allowing a mold to grow on your meat before you eat it is inconceivable. It isn't until this 'fur' gets growing that the meat is actually PROPERLY aged! MAN! The meat from this shoulder is SWEET!

Oh by they way... I found the bullet.:D

The jacket had separated from the core. "Failure!" NOT! I found MANY tiny pieces of lead around the joint mixed in with all the tiny pieces of bone shrapnel, the vast majority of which were not larger than about 2 or 3 millimeters. (You can see them in the above pictures if you look closely.) There was only one piece of lead worth saving. It weighed 31.6 grains. The remaining jacket weighed 131.05 grains, or ~26% of original weight. Max diameter was 0.856" or 206% of caliber.









Here's what the bullet's final resting place looked like:





I am REALLY happy about finding the bullet. It is THE "trophy" for me. The head and hide are a big deal, but I would have been VERY disappointed if I hadn't retrieved at least one of the bullets.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

If I had a dollar for every time I mixed up a batch of cold water with a little white vinegar in it to wipe down a carcass from that mold growth, I could get good'n drunk.
That always told me it was time.
Wipe it down, take it down, section it and cut it up.  (whole deer or elk qtrs)



That was another tip I got from Eddie.  I still remember calling him the first time it happened.  I was in a panic and thought I'd let it hang too long.
 He never mentioned "fell" though, that I can recall.
He just said the mold meant it was time to cut, and to wipe it down first and stop worrying.

[gitano]

Eddie was right!

Paul

PS - Was Eddie, German?

Paul

[Jamie.270]

Eddie was right!

Paul

PS - Was Eddie, German?

Paul

His last name was Richardson which should indicate Scandinavian, but I have no idea what his heritage was.


Found his Obit:
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/heraldandnews/obituary.aspx?n=eddie-richardson&pid=187150923

[gitano]

Then I don't know why he would have used the term "fell". Although, the "Butcher's Guild (American) uses the term:

fell – The fell is the paper-thin covering of outer fat  on a roast. It is usually removed for small cuts, like chops, but kept  in place for roasts and legs because it helps retain the shape and  juiciness when cooking.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

Then I don't know why he would have used the term "fell". Although, the "Butcher's Guid (American) uses the term:

fell – The fell is the paper-thin covering of outer fat  on a roast. It is usually removed for small cuts, like chops, but kept  in place for roasts and legs because it helps retain the shape and  juiciness when cooking.

 Paul

It really doesn't matter, but he was a butcher by trade most of his life, whether German or not, if indeed the American Butcher's guild recognizes the term I'm sure he'd have been at least familiar with it.


But again, used the way it's explained there indicates a layer of fat is required to truly be "fell."




Wow, what a trip down memory lane this has turned out to be.

[gitano]

I was talking with j0e_bl0ggs today, and he asked if I had posted any  google earth photos of the hunt, to which I responded "No". It would  probably make the story a little easier to visualize, so here are some  google earth photos of the 'lay of the land'.
 
 
 To give some scale, here is all of Alaska. You can see both Delta Junction and Wasilla, clearly labeled. From my back door to the intersection of the Richardson Hwy with the AlCan Hwy, (the "junction" in Delta Junction), is 350 miles.
]

 
 
 Zooming in a bit, here is an image that just fits Wasilla in the lower left, and Delta Junction in the upper right.
 
 


Here is an aerial view of Delta Junction. Rick and I stayed in a motel just about under the "e" in the second "Delta" in the image. Note the "Bison Range" (about 20 miles outside of DJ), and the Helkenn's farm
 



Here's a close-up of the Bison Range with its proximity to the Helkenn's farm. The Range was plowed and planted with "bison forage" in an effort to draw the bison off the barley/hay farms and onto the Range. Even the kindest review could only say it has seen 'limited' success.




Here's a close-up of the Bison Range.




Here's the total of the Helkenn's farm. The dark vertical lines are stands of trees (windbreaks) between the fields. They are about 20-25 yd wide. The fields are about 100 yd wide. The light green stripes running the length of the fields are areas Steve Helkenn left "fallow" in each field. You can see the house, shop and hay barn in the bottom of the picture. This image was taken in 2004, and since then there was another building erected. I'd call it a tractor barn.




I turned this image sideways and enlarged it to show the orientation of the various buildings, and where we parked the truck (the white "x") and looked over the field. I have added the "tractor barn" in blue.




In this last picture, (also turned sideways), you can see all of the relevant features.
"A" is where the bull came out of the woods from the "top" of the picture, right at the end of the field.
"B" is where we were parked when we spotted him.
"C" is where we drove the truck, I got out, and Rick got in the driver's seat. Just ahead of the "C" is an opening through the windbreak. That's where I crossed the windbreak and headed up the field hugging the treeline to my left.
"D" is the swale I was coming out of when I spotted the bull at "E".
"E" is where the bull was standing (roughly) when I took the first and second shots.
"F" is where the bull died, and roughly where he was standing when I took the third and fourth shots.
The yahoo that scared the bison off the first and second mornings drove down the west side of the field (the side opposite where I walked). The three people that were walking the field when we came back Sunday afternoon, were walking that same side. The bison ALWAYS went into the woods to that side of the field because there were several hundred acres of "woods" that hadn't been planted in MANY years. There was PLENTY of woods for them to hide in. That's why the bull I shot didn't run towards the windbreak that was only 20 feet from where he was standing when I first shot him. He knew there was only 20 yards of woods in which to hide. If he ran to the woods on the other side of the field, there were hundreds of acres of woods to get lost in. What he didn't figure was that I couldn't have shot him or really even chased him through that thin windbreak. If he hadn't been shot in the heart, he could have easily escaped going that direction.


Paul

[Paul Hoskins]

Paul, that is really putting detail in a great hunt & story. It's like I was right there with you & Rick. .......It's difficult to imagine an animal of any sort moving around after being shot thru the heart. Especially one on the American continent. I know  African big game animals hang onto life even after being fatally shot multiple times. Again, thanks for you & Rick taking me along on this hunt.    .......Paul H

[sakorick]

It was a frustrating event until the last 45 minutes!

[gitano]

Thanks, Paul. Like Rick said, it was one frustration after another right up to the end. It was truly the 'eleventh hour', and that's no gunwriter (ptooey) dramatization. At least as far as the part Rick would have been involved with. I would have of course gone back as many times as necessary, right through February or until I was successful, but each time would have been harder, and, almost certainly I would have been alone.


In "all of it", (especially the work every day for three weeks afterword), the significance of using the .416 kind of faded into the background. However, now, as all the post-shooting effort begins to fade and the story-tellin' phase begins, the importance of having been able to use the .416 returns to my mind.

I was telling j0e_bl0ggs that I was pleasantly surprised that the rifle didn't beat me up. I had a "in the back of my mind" thought about 'scope-eye', and was prepared to be 'beaten brutally about the head and shoulders' by the recoil, but in fact neither happened. The truth is, I had not shot the rifle from my shoulder with a scope mounted. All shots at the range had been with the rifle in a 'lead sled', (which the rifle's recoil broke!), and when I was just checking muzzle velocities, I held the rifle 'at the hip' because of the MagnetoSpeed. The broken lead sled and attendant bruises on my shoulder had put a little niggle in the back of my mind. It wasn't anything that caused a flinch or any such 'anticipation' reaction, but it was something I would 'think about' while sitting and glassing and thinking about "the act". I didn't really expect to notice the recoil much in the 'heat of battle', but i DID expect to get bruised. Didn't happen. Of course shooting off-hand helped that, but even so, I did expect some bruising - especially since I'm taking blood thinners. Just didn't happen. And I did actually look that morning (2am) before climbing in bed. Four shots, and no bruises. I'm liking that rifle even more. :D

I'm not sure "why" - other than I don't like not knowing - but I would like to figure out what's 'wrong' with the 400-grain bullets. Also, I would like to get a reasonable load worked up for the 350-grainer too. (And maybe the Hornady and Speer bullets as well.) Now that the bison 'box' has been checked off, I don't have any good reason why to worry about how those other bullets shoot, but it bugs me not to know. It doesn't make sense that they won't shoot any better than they do.



Paul

[gitano]

I was cutting up a piece of meat from the shoulder - making stew - when I hit something 'hard'. Turned out to be another chunk of the lead core of the bullet that hit the shoulder joint: 50 grains worth. This piece wasn't too far from the joint. I just missed it until I started making little ones out of big ones. I really don't expect to find any more, but I suppose we won't know until all the shoulder meat is gone.

Paul

[Paul Hoskins]

Paul, it was good the velocity wasn't higher. It "might" have been a bit better if it had been a bit slower. Slower would have likely given more penetration & not fragmented the bullet as bad. Regardless,  it  killed so it didn't fail. That's all that matters. All these "experts" that claim a bullet failed because it came  apart are full of .... . One bear I shot with the 22 Newton was quartering toward me  & I shot it in the neck at the front edge of the  left shoulder. The  bullet went through  everything between the shoulders destroying  jugular veins, windpipe & everything else. The bullet was a 71 grain homemade double jacket affair. We found the outer jacket with the  rifling marks just under the skin on  the opposite side in the rib area. We never found the inner jacket & core. I was disappointed with the bullet performance but it did a great job. ......Paul H .....

[gitano]

Paul, if you look here http://www.thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20287&page=8 at post #72 with the trajectory tables, you will see that the 500-grain bullet with a MV of ~1825 was likely only doing about 1735 f/s at a range of 80 yd. (The range I estimated for the first shot: The one we're discussing that hit the shoulder.) Assuming it was only 50 yd instead of 80, the impact velocity would have been ~1760 f/s. (I know it wasn't closer than 50 yd at the first shot.) Mid 1700's is not exactly 'fast' for an impact velocity.


I'm pretty happy with the performance of the bullet. I shot a caribou in essentially the exact same point of impact, (shoulder joint), using the 7x300 Weatherby with the 115-grain HP bullet, and the devastation was worse than for this 500-grain bullet on this bison, BUT... The damage done to the bison's shoulder was seriously impressive! I simply have no complaints about bullet performance. Zero. They did what I expected and went where I aimed. Bison are just beasts. I would expect any other North American big game animal - including coastal brown bears - to have collapsed at that first shot. Big bull bison are beasts!




The top of the humerus is broken into 4 pieces and the head of the scapula is almost pulverized. I don't know how the thing stayed on its feet! Impact energy was somewhere between 3300 and 3500 foot-lbs! That's pushing a ton-and-three quarters! Then he took three more hits with essentially the same impact energy, one of which center-punched the heart. And he never FELL DOWN! When he finally went down, he LAID DOWN. Nope. I have no complaints about bullet performance.

Maybe, a faster bullet like the 2600+ f/s .338 would have 'shocked' the bull's central nervous system sufficiently to have knocked him off his feet. We'll never know. Nevertheless, I would have no compunction whatsoever about using these 500-grain Hawk .416 bullets in the future.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

I would expect any other North American big game animal - including coastal brown bears - to have collapsed at that first shot. Big bull bison are beasts!


Paul

Unless of course the "fluffy cow" is no longer moving/breathing.

[gitano]

I'm not sure I like that sign. I think people that can't figure that out on their own need to be removed from the gene pool by their own actions.


Paul

[Jamie.270]

I'm not sure I like that sign. I think people that can't figure that out on their own need to be removed from the gene pool by their own actions.


Paul

As true as that may be, and as much as I agree, you know how the media will spin it.


We'll have to endure yet another diatribe about how violence is always wrong,...
While they excuse stupidity.

[gitano]

Got the bison hide back from the tannery today. Very disappointing. They didn't take care of it, and major hair slippage on the face around the eyes. They tried to blame it on "whoever took the skull out of the hide", but I reminded them that THEY took the skull out of the hide. They must have asked me 15 times if I was "sure". Finally, I took out my camera and showed them a picture I took of them "in the act". Nothing can be done. What's done is done. Honestly, I'm not surprised. "Once in a lifetime" trophies just seem to find a way to get ruined/lost/damaged. Fortunately, I wasn't having it mounted, AND the hair on the nose and head and the rest of the hide was very good. They just didn't take care of the 'mask'.

It smells of the tannery, so I had it outside hanging over the rail of my deck to air out - until it started to rain.



Paul

[Paul Hoskins]

Sheesh!!!!  Incompetent, uncaring idiots. I had about the same thing happen to my first bear skin back in the 1980's. The taxidermist said they forgot it was in the tumbler & it beat holes in it & destroyed all the claws. Must have had it in a rock crusher with rocks and scrap metal. Disgusting.  ......Paul H.....

[Bill Thibeault]

I shot a nice bull oryx on the White Sands Missile Range in NM (a once-in-a-lifetime trophy) in 1988.  Sent the hide off to be tanned; they lost it, never to be seen again. An oryx is a very rare trophy; I'm convinced someone at the taxidermist stole it.

[gitano]

Bill - Yeah, my dad shot a 42" oryx in Ethiopia. Got a 36-incher back from the taxidermist. In my dad's case, (and I suspect yours, too), they just found a 'client' willing to pay big money for a "trophy". Nowadays, if you have a 'special' trophy, (one someone would pay to steal), you're best served by keeping the horns/antlers with you until the cape gets back from the taxidermist, and they call you and tell you they're ready to mount. You can then bring the horns/antlers to them.

Paul - Like I said, "Once in a lifetime" things seem to find a way to getting lost, stolen, damaged, destroyed, etxc.

With tanneries, there's not a dam thing you can do about it. If they hadn't charged me a dime, it wouldn't change the fact that the hide is 'ruined'. That said, the hide is for the most part,  in great shape. Had I been wanting a life-sized mount, it would be a more tragic story.

Paul

[gitano]

So the final piece of this hunt is, if not "in place" yet, at least "in hand". I got the skull back from the "Euro Mount" fellow. It, unlike the hide, is 'as expected'.









When taken with a flash, in low ambient light.


I'll make a "mounting plate" for it so it can be hung on the wall, but it will be low enough that it can be taken down and handled. I think that's important for people that don't get to touch wild animals.

Paul