Modern Smokeless 577/450 loads

[kombi1976]

Hmmm not so sure on that it would depend wholly on the overall style of the rifle. Classically styled well yes there is that possibilty but with modern styling I would only be mildly curios .

Are you accusing my of building a Martini that was.........MODERN!!!!
Wash your mouth out!! :D

[gitano]

Incidentally, I gather you mean AR2214 and AR2209 when you wrote AP2214 and AP 2209.

Nope, I meant "AP". Because I am unfamiliar with these powders, I copied directly from QuickLoad. However, I suppose the "AR" refers to ADI Rifle, and the "AP" to ADI Pistol, and that QL has a typo.
 
I didn't quite follow if you were giving numbers for the Remington bullet as those I posted, or ones you calculated. I wanted to make it clear that I didn't post any numbers for the Remington bullet. Using that bullet (BC = .213), a 2400 f/s MV, ADI powders only, a 26" bbl, and 37 degree C ambient temperature as constraints, I get the following numbers:
 
Remington 300-grain HP
ADI AR2213 - 104.1 grains - 99.9% of case capacity
MV = 2400 f/s
ME = 3836 ft-lbs
Chamber Pressure = 31,000 PSI

Sighted in for a 6" target:
 
100 yds - +3.0" and 2817 ft-lbs
190 yds - zero and 2094 ft-lbs
200 yds - -0.8" and 2025 ft-lbs
220 yds - -3.0" and 1886 ft-lbs (MPBR)
250 yds - -7" and 1708 ft-lbs
300 yds - -16" and 1436 ft-lbs
 
Based on

Are you accusing my of building a Martini that was.........MODERN!!!!
Wash your mouth out!!

I'm assuming you'll be using open sights. Sighted in for a 6" target, the trajectory changes to the below with open sights:
 
(I'll put these in metric units since you apparently prefer those.)
100m - +7.7cm and 3706 joules
168m - zero and 2898 joules
196m - -7.7cm (MPBR) and 2614 joules
200m - -8.9cm and 2576 joules
250m - -30.5cm and 2134 joules
300m - -62.8cm and 1766 joules
 
For those wanting to convert, a meter is approximately 1.09 yds; there are approximately 2.54cm in an inch; and there are approximately 1.3565 joules in a ft-lb.
 
Paul

[Brithunter]

Are you accusing my of building a Martini that was.........MODERN!!!!
Wash your mouth out!! :D

Hi Kombi,

Well there is modern and there is modern. There are thos who consider a pre 64 Winchester Model 70 modern and those who don't. Hmmm I really wish I had some phots of the Swinburns patent Martini sporter I had years ago but I don't have photos of it all only bits like the sights and the cocking lever on the right of teh action. Yep I traded it off as it had been re-finished intending to get another in original condition. then of course the market took a hike and I have not been able to afford one since . Oh it was of course a 577/450 and had batteau (spelling?) sights, ones design for running game. The Martini is on the left:-


 

[kombi1976]

Nope, I meant "AP". Because I am unfamiliar with these powders, I copied directly from QuickLoad. However, I suppose the "AR" refers to ADI Rifle, and the "AP" to ADI Pistol, and that QL has a typo.

I'd say QL does have a typo.
Your assumption on the initials in front of the powders numbers is correct.
AR is rifle, AP is pistol and AS is shotgun.
 

I didn't quite follow if you were giving numbers for the Remington bullet as those I posted, or ones you calculated. I wanted to make it clear that I didn't post any numbers for the Remington bullet. Using that bullet (BC = .213), a 2400 f/s MV, ADI powders only, a 26" bbl, and 37 degree C ambient temperature as constraints, I get the following numbers:
 
Remington 300-grain HP
ADI AR2213 - 104.1 grains - 99.9% of case capacity
MV = 2400 f/s
ME = 3836 ft-lbs
Chamber Pressure = 31,000 PSI
 
Sighted in for a 6" target:
 
100 yds - +3.0" and 2817 ft-lbs
190 yds - zero and 2094 ft-lbs
200 yds - -0.8" and 2025 ft-lbs
220 yds - -3.0" and 1886 ft-lbs (MPBR)
250 yds - -7" and 1708 ft-lbs
300 yds - -16" and 1436 ft-lbs

See, those are quite respectable figures in my book.
It's 45-70 performance for that weight and at 31,000 psi is a lot kinda on the rifle with plenty of room for more muscle should I feel adventurous.
 

I'm assuming you'll be using open sights. Sighted in for a 6" target, the trajectory changes to the below with open sights:
 
(I'll put these in metric units since you apparently prefer those.)
100m - +7.7cm and 3706 joules
168m - zero and 2898 joules
196m - -7.7cm (MPBR) and 2614 joules
200m - -8.9cm and 2576 joules
250m - -30.5cm and 2134 joules
300m - -62.8cm and 1766 joules

Y'know, despite the fact we measure almost everything else in metric the shooting fraternity tends to stick to Imperial.
For that reason and for ease of reference we use feet and inches.
Gee, I have enough trouble getting my head around the difference between Kilowatts and Break Horse Power and Horse Power with engines than worrying about joules.
MPBR is much easier when calculating on inches anyway.

[country boy]

I was just wondering how the smokeless loads for the martini turned out

[kombi1976]

It was all a bit of a hypothetical in the long run, country boy.
I may still build that rifle, I may not.

[country boy]

I originally found this page looking for smokeless loads for 577-450.  I am working on a martini enfield in that chamber.  I have a variety of rifles but always like the historical ones and the martini's are definately historical.  My great grandfather carried one in Africa
Of course I love to shoot
I have to go now but will be back later and hopefully talk to you all later

[kombi1976]

CB, you came to the right place if you like chatting about this sort of stuff but if you have an original Martini Henry in this chambering then there are specific smokeless loads for such things.
There is actually a Martini Henry forum somewhere on the Net:

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/forums/1/t/Martini-Henry-Forum.html

They can definitely advise you on anything you need, from bullet moulds and paper patching to Smokeless For Black Powder loads.
If, on the otherhand, you are building a custom rifle in 577/450 we'd love to hear about it.
That was the original context of this thread.