>> 6.5 mm -- is this the "perfect" caliber ?

[kombi1976]

Is 6.5 the perfect cal? Mmmm, I'm not sure I'd say yes, but then I like 7mm rounds and am about to start loading for 8mm Mauser.
 
The question you're almost asking, and I say almost, is "is 6.5 the only cal we need?"
 
Remember it's a short step from there to the one-gun-for-all-occasions and we shouldn't encourage our wives on that one. :D
 
So everyone seems to admire & respect the Swede if not love it. What about those other shorter 6.5mm rounds......the Schoenauer, the Carcano or the 6.5x50 Jap?

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

The question you're almost asking, and I say almost, is "is 6.5 the only cal we need?"
 
Remember it's a short step from there to the one-gun-for-all-occasions and we shouldn't encourage our wives on that one. :D
 

No, the point I am pressing forward is that the 6.5 caliber is a very good place to begin building your battery of personal firearms. Being a person of a somewhat "frugal" nature by having different rifles for different purposes using the same caliber (not cartridge) seems to me to be economically reasonable.
My personal 6.5 battery "ready to go" at this time includes 3 in 6.5x55 and a 6.5/06. Within the next 2 days or so, my "RED-DAWG" will be completed, a 6.5-08(260) Ackley Improved. I also have a Savage 10FP chambered for the 260 Rem. The 6.5BR referred to in another thread is nearing completion. On the drawing board to be completed if I live long enough are the 6.5x55 BJAI, a .260 AAR and the 6.5/06 Ackley Improved. Each have an intended purpose except for the .260 AAR(I just want one in this cartridge!) All can be built on the readily available '98 Mauser actions except for the 6.5/06 AI(I have a Remington 78 action and a '03 Springfield action set aside for that one.)
 
It has been rumored by some that I am a bit of a "fan" of the 6.5 bore! Well..YES........I suppose I am! However, I am also persuing the .323 and .338 bores as well...........I suffer from 'rifle-itis & bore-itis'...for which there is no known cure......except for the inevitable headstone!
 
Lets continue the adventure......I am having fun and hope you are too!
 
Ol' John.. :D

[kombi1976]

This is just an observation, John, but for someone who seems to hold such distain for 6.5 magnums(including, I gather, the 6.5/284) you aren't afraid to use "standard" supercharged 6.5 wildcat cartridges. The 6.5-06 AI would be close on the tail of the 6.5/284 I'd suspect, just as the .280 AI is close on the heels of the 7mm Rem Mag.

RumRunner was talking about the mystic 2400fps. Do you prescribe to this and primarily use heavy projectiles like the European loads or are you using these high performance cartridges to gain speed and a flat trajectory?

[gitano]

John,
 
Now, arguing for a battery of arms built around one caliber IS an idea I can embrace. Personally my choice would be .323" not .264", but then that's what makes horse races.
 
I would also offer the idea of making a battery of arms of different calibers built on a single case - Oh say the 57mm or even - dare I say it - the .308? :)

Paul

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

This is just an observation, John, but for someone who seems to hold such distain for 6.5 magnums(including, I gather, the 6.5/284) you aren't afraid to use "standard" supercharged 6.5 wildcat cartridges. The 6.5-06 AI would be close on the tail of the 6.5/284 I'd suspect, just as the .280 AI is close on the heels of the 7mm Rem Mag.
 
RumRunner was talking about the mystic 2400fps. Do you prescribe to this and primarily use heavy projectiles like the European loads or are you using these high performance cartridges to gain speed and a flat trajectory?

kombi,
 
RR has a good point about the "mystic 2400fps" -- a lot of folks prescribe to this idea and I certainly can't argue with their "follow the blood trail" as that works for them. But I am getting older and as the years creep up on me I have noticed I am hunting closer & closer to the road. First & foremost.......I am a meat hunter..period..if a trophy comes by I am definitely a "happier" camper. Texas Hill country whitetail are small so all the more reason I am a meat hunter. I take only 2 kinds of shots....broadside into the lungs,preferably the upper half and a neck shot - deer looking at me..I aim just under the white spot on the throat. If I don't get either of those two shots...I wave as the deer runs off and tell him/her...."see ya next time!" I am NOT an advocate of punch 2 holes and follow the blood-trail.........I much prefer one hole and usually use light for caliber rapidly expanding bullets about as fast as I can push them accurately!
 
As to the 6.5/06 AI vs. the 6.5/284...well, I have the reamer and dies for the 6.5/06 AI already and my plans are for 2 rifles in this caliber...one for long range "F" class competition and the other for super long-range varminting...we are talking 500 yards plus.
Many high-power competitiors have gone to the 6.5/284 and are winning, winning, winning!
At 62 years of age and NO experience at this type of competitive shooting I will be competing for FUN and to GAIN KNOWLEDGE! The "F" class competition sounds to me like a nice way to spend a weekend with folks that like to shoot! The ol' body is definitely on the decline but the mind is still pretty young at heart and the search for knowledge keeps the brain cells churning!
 
As to the .280 AI...yeehaa! I would really like one of those! I still have a Remington 721 in the gun cabinet in '06....so maybe...but its pretty far down on the list. The possibilites with the 6.5 calibers and the .323 and .338 bores are gonna keep me pretty busy for the time being. I have great hopes for the 338x57 MAI that Paul and I have been working with.......He will have one ready to go by the next Caribou season and I will be watching from the sidelines waiting for the report and the mandatory "pics"!
 
Best regards,
 
Ol' John... :D

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

John,
 
Now, arguing for a battery of arms built around one caliber IS an idea I can embrace. Personally my choice would be .323" not .264", but then that's what makes horse races.
 
I would also offer the idea of making a battery of arms of different calibers built on a single case - Oh say the 57mm or even - dare I say it - the .308? :)
 
Paul

ABSOLUTELY!....POSITIVELY!....WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!
 
In the 57mm case....257 Roberts, 257 'Bob' AI (which you already have), so how about a .260 AAR (257 AI necked up to 6.5), 7mm Mauser and the AI version, 8mm Mauser and an AI(I have the reamer), our joint venture the 338x57 MAI....sounds like a plan!
 
308 case (aka 51mm), 260 Rem & the 6.5/08 AI, 7/08, 323/08, 338/08 or perhaps the .358 Winchester(hope I can get some pics of a custom 358 I recently had the opportunity to peruse...lots of possibilites on this one!).
 
Pick the caliber and choose the 51mm or the 57mm and go with what game is available in your particular part of the world....People will say WHY?.....You already know the answer to that one.
 
Ol' John..:D

[m gardner]

Perfect for what? If it's deer the answer is yes. If it's elk the answer is not unless you are a real good shot and can pass on bad shot angles. I love the 6.5's but there is a scarcity of bullets to play with and play I must. If you like to experiment you'll run out of things to do in a hurry. But maybe that's why I need to own more guns! I think that the 30 calibers are the best because of an overabundance of bullets to try. They also seem to handle the larger stuff on this continent well. They recoil more but thats why I like the 6.5's and my 270. Goc bless.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,
 
    Now Ol' John my dear felow you seem to have stopped short on thses:-
 
" In the 57mm case....257 Roberts, 257 'Bob' AI (which you already have), so how about a .260 AAR (257 AI necked up to 6.5), 7mm Mauser and the AI version, 8mm Mauser and an AI(I have the reamer), our joint venture the 338x57 MAI....sounds like a plan! "
 
    Err where's the 9x57, 9.3x57 and the 9.5x57 ( .375 RNE), the 6.5x57 already exists and has done so for many years, 7.5x57 would be interesting as it would be a .30x57mm! I do believe that in Europe there is also a 5.6x57 whihc is one screamer of a cartridge along the likes of the 220 Swift;)
 
    As for 6.5 or .264" for use on Elk............. did anyone else read the article where the lady borrowed and old Steyr  Model 1892 Sporting rifle in 6.5x53R and stalkked and shot a Cow Elk using the original iron sights. The Elk dropped with the one shot at about 90 yards. I have the article here somewhere as a nice American I know sent it too me. He has one of these rifles as well, I know as I found it for him and put him in touch with the dealer and they sorted it from there. Oh the cartiridge used was laoded with the 160 Grn RN bullet. Now as for bullet selection in 6.5 well they go from 77 grains up to 160 grains!

[Big Red Trike]

I thought I had heard that the 6.5 actually performs best with "heavy for Calibre" 160 grain bullets and that I read somewhere I think its the Lee Reloading manual that at distances 300yds and further the 6.5 actually had better velocity and ft/lbs of energy than a 308 winchester and people talk about the 308 as being one of the better if the best short action high power calibres. So if that's the case there can't be too many things wrong with it.
 
I used to own one (a swede army rifle with a aftermarket sporter stock) and it loved Israele Military 160 gr bullets.....I did not hand load for it........I had it at the local gun shop cause I could not get it to group very well with 139 gr Winchester factory only 2" at 100 yds spread out massive at 200 yds from a vise. Gunsmith said "the barrel is only 19 1/4 inches long you lucky it carries out to 200 yds." Too make a long story short it had a sloppy trigger, and a sticky action and punted my wife on the range (she is better shot than me, LOL (and a beginner)) so we bought a 243......thats my knowledge of the 6.5.

[Brithunter]

Hi Big Red Trie,

     ell I have two rifles chambered in 6.5x55 Swedish, one is a sporterised Mauser which has a20" barrel and it shoots just fine using Speer 120 Grn bullets, usually about 3/4" groups. The other is a Mauser M96 Slide Bolt which also has a 20" barrel, this prefers 140  Grn bullets but both shoot the 160 grain bullets well.
 
   You said:-
 
" I used to own one (a swede army rifle with a aftermarket sporter stock) and it loved Israele Military 160 gr bullets.....I did not hand load for it........I had it at the local gun shop cause I could not get it to group very well with 139 gr Winchester factory only 2" at 100 yds spread out massive at 200 yds from a vise. Gunsmith said "the barrel is only 19 1/4 inches long you lucky it carries out to 200 yds." Too make a long story short it had a sloppy trigger, and a sticky action and punted my wife on the range (she is better shot than me, LOL (and a beginner)) so we bought a 243......thats my knowledge of the 6.5. "
 
    Well I have never heard of the "Israele Military 160 gr bullets", I was not aware that Isreal used the 6.5mm. I thought they used 7.62x51 then the 5.56 Nato cartridges:eek:  
 
And as for that Gunsmith................ well I would find another one. One who knows what he is talking about because that clearly does not. Clearly there wasa problem with that rifle which needed sorting out, the trigger is easily done or replaced, the stock I doubt was fitted correctly or was a poor design as it sounds like it was bending the action to make it bind. A simple bedding job would have sort that out  now wiht these faults it's hardly surprising that it didn't shoot very well, I gather by reading between the lines that the .243 was aquired from said gunsmith? Hmmm not impressed:mad:
 
      Oh and I have shot targets at 300 yards with a .41AE semi auto pistol with a 4" barrel:D  and yes the bullets reached it quite comfortably thank you;) .
 
     Also in 6.5mm among my collection is a Mannlicher 1903 Schoenauer 6.5x54MS and a Mannlicher Model 1892 in 6.5x53R. As yet I ahve not shot deer with these two but the 6.5x55 rifles I ahve shot quite a few deer plus some foxes. You say I have a bit of a soft spot for the 6.5's, but if you read my earlier reply you would have noticed I also mentioned the 7x57 as an excellent cartridge as well;)

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

Friends & Neighbors,
 
My apologies for not continuing this thread in a more rapid fashion.  There are three cartridges that I do not have in my collection, the 6.5 Grendel, the 6.5/284 and the historic .256 Newton.  Well, I managed to locate a feller in California that sells the above cartridges and they are on their way.  I will make some pics and then continue the discussion.  Thanks for you patience.
 
Ol' John

[Brithunter]

Hi John,

     I gather that you DO have one of the 6.5x53R cartridges then? and of course it's slightly later rimless counter part the 6.5x54MS! which of course were also known as the .256 Mannlicher.

    If not let me know and I just might be able to help having some of both;)

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

Hi All,
 
Now Ol' John my dear felow you seem to have stopped short on thses:-
 
" In the 57mm case....257 Roberts, 257 'Bob' AI (which you already have), so how about a .260 AAR (257 AI necked up to 6.5), 7mm Mauser and the AI version, 8mm Mauser and an AI(I have the reamer), our joint venture the 338x57 MAI....sounds like a plan! "
 
Err where's the 9x57, 9.3x57 and the 9.5x57 ( .375 RNE), the 6.5x57 already exists and has done so for many years, 7.5x57 would be interesting as it would be a .30x57mm! I do believe that in Europe there is also a 5.6x57 whihc is one screamer of a cartridge along the likes of the 220 Swift;)
 
........

Brithunter, my friend & neighbor....
 
You were quite right in bringing me to task on the larger diameter calibers that I had totally left out.  Now that I am receiving monthly social security checks I could use the excuse of advancing age but that would only be partially correct.  I have always been a small bore feller and the majority of my interest/time has been spent in acquiring knowledge in that particular area.  It was only in the last couple of years that I began an interest in the 338 calibres due to our good friend in Alaska, Gitano.  The calibres you speak of, from what I have been to read, are good ones and serve their purpose well.  Unfortunately they have not been available to me.  If you have some pics of these various cartridges I would ask that you post them and a bit of history or other info that would be helpful.  I personally would appreciate any knowledge you could pass on to those of us wishing to expand our personal data bases.
 
Best regards,
 
Ol' John:D

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

Hi John,
 
I gather that you DO have one of the 6.5x53R cartridges then? and of course it's slightly later rimless counter part the 6.5x54MS! which of course were also known as the .256 Mannlicher.
 
If not let me know and I just might be able to help having some of both;)

Brithunter,
 
As a matter of fact, NO I DON'T, my collection is VOID of the european calibers totally. I would like to expand my knowledge on any calibers you have mentioned. Please send me a PM on what you may have available for trade and/or purchase. I had thought of contacting CAfrica for some examples of the calibers available in South Africa. I wonder if there are any restrictions (ie..government meddling!) that we would have to abide by! In the meantime thank you for your offer to provide some examples. Lets see what we can come up with.
 
Ol' John...

[Brithunter]

Hi John,

 Pm sent as requested:D

  Now I do have here the 9.3x57 Mauser plus the rifle to go with it;)  I also have some 9.5x57 by G. Roth which is marked Mod 1910 which means it's for the Mannlicher Schoenauer Model 1910 and I also have a box of Kynock 9.5x57 which is also marked Manlicher-Schonauer. Now the 9.5x57 was not a European design actually as I have (somewhere) a drawing kindly supplied by the late P. Labbat which shows it wa sdesigned in 1908 for Westly Richards and called the .375 RNE ( Rimless Nitro Express) of course this is 2 years before Mannlicher adopted the cartridge. Mauser also chambered for the 9.5x57 as a standard offering but the 9.3x57 was special order as it was mainly a Swedish cartridge.
 
   9x57 was also a std Mauser offering in their sporting rifles but I do not have one of them, and I just looked up the 5.6x57 and it seems that there was also a rimmed version as well as the rimless. This cartridge was and may still be vry popular in Ireland as they banned all but .22 centrefire rifles at one time. The 5.6x57 uses a 74 Grain bullet at about 3250 fps and was found to be useful in shooting the Red Stags and Sika Stags found in Ireland, now you are allowed to use up to a .270 cal but no more than that:rolleyes: .  In the next week of so I will try to get of scans or photos of the various boxes and see if i can find that dawing, but don't hold your breathe as I never sem to find the time to do everything I want to or should for that matter:rolleyes:
 
   Back to  6.5's there is alos a 6.5x57R and a 6.5x68 and the 6.5x68 Schuler if I remember correctly which was designed for cross gorge shots at Chamois in the Alps. Boy you have a lot to catch up on :D
 
    Oh I may be able to aquire a 7x65R cartridge as Cliff has a double rifle in that chambering;)