.338x.284 Win Project

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Anyroad, floating reamer holder allows the reamer to follow your piloted hole to a small degree.
If the pilot is not concentric / perpendicular (to your spindle)  the 'reamer holder' will NOT correct that problem.
Holding the reamer in the toolpost is not really a good way to power ream, it would be difficult to get it on axis, clamping the workpiece in say a drill press would have been better, but that can be done easier in the lathe with tailstock.
There is no requirement for a floating holder - floating stuff seems to be an en vogue reloaders* type of necessity (handy to compensate a little for wear in tailstock / ways in this instance).
Personally have found the 'floating' holder to be more trouble than its worth - having found that a good true running work piece (setup and machined in a 4 jaw) is more desirable along with the natural 'slop' in the tailstock ends up with a good chamber.


*see forsters co-ax for a true push on 'floating'.

[gitano]

Not sure to what your "thumbnail" question refers, my pictures above, which aren't thumbnails, or a problem posting pics in general. I'm working on the latter.

WRT to floating reamer holders, I've come to all the conclusions you have. While I too considered it "floating stuff seems to be an en vogue reloaders* type", I have recently found many machinists and machine shops, advocating their use. I was a little surprised. And, like I said, I was surprised I was able to get alignment sufficiently accurate to only get 0.001" "enlargement" over diameter of reamer. Also, I didn't do any "power" reaming. Rotated chuck by hand. I don't think I'll power chamber-ream again. Rotating chuck by hand is tedious, but being able to advance the reamer "automatically" in very small, uniform increments, ensures no chatter and holding to very precise specs.

Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Have not found many machine shops 'advocating' their use wrt 'floating'. Lots of bs about improved precision out there.

[fabtec]

Paul you are in good company.
Fred Huntington of RCBS fame got his start in the back room of his father's cleaners business. Like many businesses of the day there was a machine shop to maintain the equipment. One of the machines was an engine lathe. It was on this that Fred would begin making his dies for swaging spent .22 brass to make cases for .22 cast bullets. The dies were made from Model"T" axles. You see it was the early '40's and there was a shortage of everything, and what was left was rationed.


The following is copied. It reads well:

NEARLY THREE-QUARTERS OF A CENTURY AGO, FRED HUNTINGTON, who went by the name of "Pop" to family and friends, decided to do something about the post-war bullet shortage by fabricating dies capable of making bullets from chunks of lead and fired .22 rimfire cases. At the time, he was working for his father, who owned a dry-cleaning store in Oroville, California. Running low on ammunition for his varmint rifle, he happened upon a gunsmithing book containing instructions on making a bullet-swaging press and dies needed for the job. Little did Huntington know that the book, along with an old lathe in a back room of the laundry shop, would be the start of a company that would eventually become known around the world for its high-quality reloading equipment.

Those first dies were for .22-caliber bullets and machined from Ford Model T axles from the junkyard. As word of the work spread, so did requests for the dies from other shooters. The dies sold for $35, which wasn't exactly chicken feed back in 1943. The leverage needed for bullet swaging was beyond the capability of a standard reloading press, so Huntington came up with a way of modifying a press made by the Pacific Gun Sight Company of Palo Alto, California. The modified press and dies could be purchased as a package, or, if a shooter already owned a Pacific press, he could buy a conversion kit for it along with the dies.

One of Huntington's customers was Captain Grosvenor Wotkyns, who was a member of the ordnance department at Benecia Arsenal in San Francisco. He was also the originator of the .22 Hornet cartridge. Huntington had never thought about giving his dies a name, so when Wotkyns, an avid varmint shooter, suggested "Rock Chuck Bullet Swage," it stuck. Being rather cumbersome, the name was shortened to RCBS, and the rest is history.

The Huntington name is also associated with one of today's popular rifle cartridges. In 1958, firearms writer and hunting outfitter Les Bowman necked down the .338 Winchester Magnum case to 7mm and sent an action to Fred, who installed a barrel chambered for it. The barrel and reloading dies were stamped ".280 Remington Magnum." Later, while hunting elk with Bowman, Mike Walker at Remington used the rifle, and in 1962 his company changed the name of the wildcat to 7mm Remington Magnum and introduced it in the equally new Remington Model 700 rifle.

So you see Paul,
When I read about your endeavor, I see the correlation to many of the noted pioneers that came before you. Thank you

[gitano]

That's very kind indeed, fabtec. Thank you. Truth be told though, I'm a hack when it comes to machining'.

Paul

[Paul Hoskins]

Paul, litle acorns & chestnuts grow into huge trees. I admire your bambitions & endeavors. You remind me much of  myself. I just  never had the time or finances to follow thru on most of  my projects & many other projects kept  coming up & interfering with projects on hand. Now I'm too old to do much of anything & too blind to see to do it anyway. .......I'm glad to see someone like you interested in such things. Keep the projects going while you're young  & can still see to do them. It's certainly an interesting & fascinating field. ......  Paul H  .....

[gitano]

Just got off the phone with PacNor, and the news isn't good. The owner had a stroke, (he's doing pretty good), and two of their "technicians" got COVID, so they are "set back". They'll "try" to get the rifle finished by November. (It was supposed to be finished this month.) I'm not unhappy with PacNor. Stuff happens, AND... they haven't lied to me about anything. So far. I don't anticipate that they will. The "bluing guy" that they normally use (Gunnar) won't be back in business until November or December, but their other out-source for that service is still available. I seriously doubt I will be taking the rifle to Missouri for deer season this year.

Paul

[gitano]

Just got off the phone with Pac-Nor. They're shipping the rifle. After second invoice, the total, including shipping, is going to be very near $1000. The bluing cost went up, but all thing considered, I'm okay with that final figure.

"All things considered"
Remove old barrel from receiver;
New barrel with custom profile;
Remove quarter-rib from original barrel and install on new barrel;
Chamber and install barrel on old receiver;
Blue new bbl and receiver;
Plus shipping to and from Pac-Nor, and to and from bluer.

A thousand bucks. Not a 'smokin' deal', but, in my opinion, not highway robbery either. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will look just like the .416x.348 Win they did. I'll post pictures when I get my hands on it.

Paul

[gitano]

Don't know what happened to the first version of this post. One of those that 'went into the ether'.



I received this in the mail today:










With the exception of the lever, it is the 'spitting image' of the .416x.348 Win.





As you can see, I put the persimmon forearm on it. I used the original butt because it looks very good for a factory stock, and it even looks good for a custom stock. However, I don't like the stark contrast between the dark walnut and the light persimmon. I've been talking with a stock-making company in Kalifornia about having them do a matching persimmon butt for me. We'll see how that ultimately turns out.
 

I've already taken the scope, (Vortex), off of the .416x.348 Win that I used on the buffalo hunt, and put it on the .338-.284 Win. Of course it's cold, (-15F this morning), and dark, so it's not likely that I will get any shooting for at least two, and probably three, months. :cry: I will be fireforming some cases to get dimensions for QuickLOAD work-up though.

More when there is more.



Paul

[Jamie.270]

Now that's a handsome rifle.
I take it Pac-Nor didn't let you down, on anything other than time?


I hope to see it with a persimmon stock.

[gitano]

PacNor was fine. I have no complaints. I assume they will get their act  together regarding lead times, as time passes and the COVID insanity  wanes. I'm a little concerned about the owner having suffered a stroke.  Not so much that the business will fold, but rather that it will change  hands into one owned by a "businessman" instead of a rifleman. In my  opinion, all the businesses owned by "businessmen" in the US is  precisely what is wrong with "business" in the US. Put simply, people  that go to business school don't learn how to do business CORRECTLY.  What they learn is GREED. "Get as much as you can as fast as you can.  Customer service ONLY if it increases the speed at which you can get  money. Remember that there are millions of customers. A few pissed off  due to being taken advantage of won't matter to your profits" is what is  taught in business school today.

On that note: The scope on this  rifle is a Vortex 6.5-20 with Mil-dot (MoA) reticle. I lost the cover  to the windage knob. I just got off the phone with them, asking for a  new one. They SAY (https://vortexoptics.com/vip-warranty) they have a "no questions asked" policy regarding  repair/replacement. Turns out, that's apparently true. They didn't balk  for a microsecond in telling me that one will be "on the way tomorrow".  No mention of cost, shipping or otherwise. Before I got this paragraph  written, I got an email telling me that the order had been placed, and  that another email would be on its way with tracking info as soon as the  item was shipped. THAT'S IMPRESSIVE.

I'm really having to exercise my patience as the desire to shoot this thing is high. Nevertheless, experience has shown that doing so at this time of year is a waste of time, bullets, and powder, and while I have 'plenty' of time, I do not have plenty of bullets or powder. There's just no future in working up a load in temperatures that are greatly different from those in which you hunt. That's not about the chemistry of gunpowder either. Rather, it's about the steel and wood. At cold temps like these, the steel is sufficiently "smaller" that it effects how the steel touches the wood and the volume of the combustion chamber. It's just not worth it. :cry: So, I'm doing a lot of paper-whipping. Fortunately for "you guys", it's the same ol' QuickLOAD optimal barrel timing (OBT) and pressure stuff, and there's no need to post it here.

However, all the paper-whipping has reminded me of one of the characteristics of long barrels and OBT. Namely, because of their length, the time between nodes is greater. (Duh) What that means is that there is a greater pressure increase between nodes. This is not a big deal to me because I'm not trying to squeeze the last foot per second from this barrel and case. Therefore, the nodes I am focused on have pressures at 47-49kPSI, and 55-58kPSI. (Max SAAMI spec for the case is 63,817PSI.) As you can see, I'm way below SAAMI max. I could flirt with the SAAMI max as that's about where the next node is, pressure-wise, especially in a No.1 action, but then the rifle would kill at both ends, the cases wouldn't last as long, and the ballistic gain would be "over-kill". Literally.

I have decided on Nosler's 200-grain E-Tip for load workup because I have at least 100 of them, and I'm not likely to use them to hunt with until I absolutely have to. I have at least 150 200-grain Accubonds, BUT, and it's a BIG but, I bought them as "Blems" from the Nosler site. I've never had a problem with buying "blemished" bullets from ANY manufacturer. I can't say that any more. I pulled one out of its plastic bag and dropped it in the mouth of one of the fire-formed-and-resized cases. It dropped to the bottom of the case! Yikes! Was there something "off" with the resizing die? I slid the bullet out and dropped in one of the E-Tips. No problem. I measured the diameter of the Accubond. It was 0.321"! That's SEVENTEEN THOUSANDTHS TOO SMALL! Holy mackerel! That's a HUGE difference! I haven't yet, but I will, be measuring every one of those 150 Accubond "blems". I assume they never sell the ones that are SEVENTEEN THOUSANDTHS TOO LARGE! (I'll use all of those .321 bullets for 8mm cartridges.)


Paul

[gitano]

I just got off of the phone with these guys: http://www.gunstockinletting.com/gallery.html. They "remembered" our previous conversation in May, . I told them that I now only wanted the butt done and we talked about 'things'. They will call when they are ready to START work on my rifle, which should be in April. I told them for the sake of this discussion, let's do the "full Monty" for the butt. That means:
1) final inletting to my action,
2) final finishing including checkering,
3) installing skeleton grip cap,
4) installing butt pad.

Total is $1325. Yeah, I did one of these too! Labor for installing skeleton grip cap is $125. Labor for installing butt pad is $100. "Duplicating" - which is their term for using my wood and their pattern - is $195. Checkering is $325 for FOUR-panels. Two for forearm and two for butt. I'm only asking for the two panels on the butt, so I don't know what that price will be. Should be about half. That labor above totals $745. I'll have to find out where the other $580 is going.

I'm not inclined to part with that amount of money to get that work done. If I can get them to agree, I might just have them do the "final" inletting on the action. No checkering, no grip cap, no butt pad, no "finishing". If they will agree to that, that's probably what I'll do. I REALLY like skeleton grip caps, (and butt plates, too), but $125 for the part and $125 for the installation is causing me to "like" it less. I wouldn't consider the "finishing", but they're not going to do the checkering until the butt is finished, and I'm NOT going to do the checkering. So if I want them to checker it, I'll have to let them finish it.

So, not counting the money I spent on the N0.1 originally, I've got almost $1000 in this rifle to date. Add $1325 to that would make $2325. I think, were it "finished" as described above, I might be able to get that much out of it if I tried to sell it. (Then again, I might not. Also, I AM going to sell the original .308 bbl. So that would offset some of the original cost.) Selling this rifle is not likely something I would ever do, but considering that is a 'ruler' of sorts with which to gauge the "reality" of doing something you want to do.


I asked them about turnaround time and they said; "3 to 4 months". I said; "Will I have it back for hunting season 2022?" They asked; "Your season starts around November 21st, right?" I said; "More like November 15." They said; "I will make a note of that. We may start a little earlier to get it back to you a month before so you can go to the range." Like I said, I'm beginning to like these guys. :) Don't like their prices, but they are doing the "right things" in terms of customer service before the fact.

We'll see how this plays out in the Spring.


Paul

[gitano]

Doesn't look like I'm going to get to shoot or work up loads for this rifle until right before the November deer season. I spoke with the stock maker yesterday, and they need the barreled action and blank right now in order to have it back to me by deer season. Three years to get a 'bespoke' rifle. Sheesh.

Paul

[gitano]

So, after considerable effort over almost a year, I was ready to ship the wood and rifle to US Gun Inletting & Stocks. Literally packing the boxes. I was thinking about making sure the company and I were on the same page regarding the EXACT specifications I wanted, and decided to have another look at their "gallery" AND their FaceBook page. Hmm...


Looking closely at the wood-to-metal fit on several of their stocks, I noticed 'rounding' of edges. The kind of rounding you see on amateur woodworking. Hmm... I started looking closer at other pieces. I noticed several with epoxy showing around the metal. Gack! I'm not gonna pay premium prices for stockmaking and have VIEWABLE epoxy wood-metal joints!

I sent the fellow I've been working with an email and asked him to commit in writing to me that there wouldn't be ANY visible epoxy on the wood-metal joints. I said if he wasn't willing to do that, I would just have the butt rough shaped and rough inletting. He responded HONESTLY. "Our foreman says he cannot guarantee that there won't be any acraglas showing in the wood-metal joints, so we should just do the rough shaping and inletting. However, we're also not going to drill the through hole." Hmm...


I told him I'd pass completely.



So, here I am back literally at 'Square 1'. I've exhausted all the stockmakers I know of. You know what that means: I'll have to do it myself. :angry: *@#$%^&!



That's sailor talk for *@#$%^&!

Paul

[gitano]

On a brighter note: Now that I'm not sending the rifle away, AND there is more than 12 hours of shooting light per day now, I WILL be taking this rifle to the range to do some load workups!





Paul