Swaging brass collars onto arrow shafts

[Nelsdou]

• Remove the 4mm bamboo skewer from the shaft. Note that the brass cut off diameter is slightly larger than the aft end of the swage. this will be corrected in the next swage operation.
  

[Nelsdou]

• Clean up the brass cut by grinding or filing. There is short cut if you have a Lee case trimmer. Remove the case trimmer gauge from the Lee case trimmer and jam a piece of 4mm bamboo skewer into the Lee case trimmer tool to act as a guide into the shaft. For a carbon shaft with installed aluminum insert, you will have to use a file or sandpaper to trim and square the brass down to the insert face.
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[Nelsdou]

You should have a shaft end that looks something like this. Note the swell remaining in the collar as evident by the Arrow-Fix point reinserted  for comparison.

[Nelsdou]

• Next take a bullet resizing die to further flatten and smooth the swage over the length of the brass collar
  

Note that my particular bamboo shaft diameters, a bullet sizer of .0323 worked best. For the carbon shaft a bullet sizer of .0329 was used. The difference between the two shaft types was that the carbon was swaged with the original aluminum insert within the shaft head, so there was very little compression setback for the carbon shaft to give. Also bear in mind the thickness of the case necks that you are using may also be a factor in selecting the bullet sizer diameter.

• Slip the bullet sizer over the nock end of the shaft and place both into the press. install the bullet pusher onto the ram head.
  
• Again lightly lube the brass collar and stroke the press pushing the collar/shaft up through the die.
  
• After removing the shaft from the press, touch up of the shaft end may be necessary if any brass edge carry over occurs with the final swage. Should be minimal filing or trimming to accomplish.
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[Nelsdou]

• For wood and bamboo, check the fit of the Arrow-Fix points by insertion and glue the insert in. I use hot melt glue by heating only the Arrow-Fix point and applying glue to the tang, then inserting into the shaft. To loosen, heat only the point, never the shaft.
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[Nelsdou]

Note that the use of 5/16 glue on field points or broadheads is easy because the Arrow-Fix taper is identical. The use of 11/32 field points or broadheads is also possible due to the identical taper but a step will be obvious behind such heads due to the differing diameters and could cause a problem in pulling arrows from a stiff target material. Just be aware that adding a field point or broadhead to a 125 grain Arrow-Fix point can result in a fairly heavy arrow tip weight.

I prefer a heavy Front of Center (FOC) arrow configuration so my bamboo arrows at 30 inch length come out to be approximately 17~18% using the Arrow-Fix point plus 100 grain glue on field points or 110 grain broaheads.

Carbon arrows use a screw in point system with more variety of point choices so there I run about 15% FOC with a 200 grain field point or broadhead.

The weight of the brass collars are approximately 9 to 10 grains, so their effect on arrow trajectory should be minimal.

Some additional photos of differing points are shown below:

[Jamie.270]

An ingenious use of existing tools and materials if I ever saw one!

[gitano]

Very interesting, Nels. Thanks for the effort of producing the "How To".

Quite a while back - more than 20 years - I did a bunch of chronograph work with my bows and various arrows. The bottom line was very straight-forward: For any given bow, the heavier the arrow, the slower the speed. Makes sense of course, but I was surprised at how tight the correlation was. (Maybe I shouldn't have been.)


Since "shock" is not an issue with hunting arrows, (except maybe blunts), and given the equations for kinetic energy and momentum, an argument can be make for "speed kills" in arrows. Furthermore, trajectory in arrows is significantly affected by speed: The higher the speed, the flatter the trajectory. The flatter the trajectory, the less accurate one has to be with range estimation. These issues - range estimation and trajectory - are less critical when hunting from a blind, but they're not completely eliminated by any means. One still has to deal with "string jump" in the context of speed.

Anyway, I've always had complete penetration on every big game animal that I have killed with a bow and arrow, including moose and a caribou at 87 paces. Therefore, I don't concern myself as much with "penetration", (and its attendant momentum as a function of arrow mass), as I do with speed and its associated trajectory. That said, I have never been unfortunate enough to have hit bone - like a shoulderblade - in which case, momentum becomes a bigger issue. I suppose.

All of the above is my long-winded explanation of why I still own unused 30+ year-old Zwickey broadheads. :D


Finally, are any of the Tonkin Reed shafts spined sufficiently for use with compound hunting bows with draw weights of 55# or higher?



Paul

[Nelsdou]

I can understand why hunters in more open country need speed and flat trajectories to make vital hits. Compound bows certainly help with that as well. My hunting local is a bit more restrictive and typical shot range is 10 to 25 yards including the use of tree stands so a shooting a stick bow with heavy headed arrows instinctively works for me.

Since I starting flinging sticks at animals back in the 70's my arrows would have always been considered on the heavy side by today's standards. Its been my observation that a bit more weight bias towards head (FOC) aids in stability and puts more energy into the broadhead or business end of the arrow. Once an arrow is launched, I visualize it as a dart with a long tail.
Until recently when I started getting interested in Asian archery that I became aware of bamboo being used as arrow shafting and that Tokin had a reputation as being extremely tough. I acquired my Tokin shafts from Khansarrows in San Antonio, TX with 60-65lb spine. I believe that is the highest spine he carries and I would say that spine weight is conservative because I am shooting 30 inch arrow length with heavy heads that would tend to push that spine weight rating pretty hard. Typical spine numbers are rated at 28 inches. Price wise, they are not cheap and on par with reputable medium grade carbon shafts.

The old saying that never shoot wood shafts in compounds came from the risk of wood shafts fracturing when bow cam roll over accelerated the bow string.
For giggles (1980's?) we used to shoot 90lb spine Port Orford cedar 23/64 shafts tipped with 357 shell casing as blunts out of compounds at rabbits and never had a shaft fracture. I don't know if anyone makes shafts like that anymore. But from my limited experience with bamboo's toughness, I cannot see any risk for use in a compound. There are slight nodes that change local diameter in the shaft, so there could be some issue how one's arrow rest is configured. However, the bamboo arrow is tapered head to nock, say .308 at the head and down to .282 at the nock, so that should help in clearance. Weight wise my shafts came in a 470-484 grains each at 33 inches in length. Flying out of my recurve, I judge the bending recovery rate of the bamboo to be faster than wood and about the same as carbon.


 To test the brass collars on durability, I did some testing by shooting the bamboo arrow with and without collars into 3/4 plywood. I have not tested the collared carbon arrow yet.  When I get that accomplish I will post those results here.

[gitano]

I think wooden arrow shafts would be more likely to come apart than bamboo shafts, and reading Khan's site, it sounds like his would probably be fine for use in a compound.

Due to a progressively degrading spur on my right shoulder, I can't draw a recurve anymore, and only certain compounds with cams that 'turn over' at the 'right' place in the draw cycle. I used to have my compound set for 65# at 29" (my draw length), and I shoot "bare bow" except for one, fixed sight pin, and no release.

I'm intrigued by bamboo arrows, but have no particular interest in "primitive" or "traditional". The only reason I shoot a 'bare' a bow as I do, is because for a while I hung all the contraptions on my bow but found it WAY too much to fiddle with. I learned to shoot as a kid "instinctive", and that's the way I shoot my compound. Dynamic sights and kiss buttons and mechanical releases, etc. are too much for me to fool with. I'd move to a non-compound bow if I could, "just 'cause", but there is simply no way for me to draw a recurve these days. Almost without regard to draw weight.

I don't have much opportunity to bow hunt here in Alaska, but some are more willing to WORK at it than I am. As I mentioned, I've shot moose and caribou, both 'spot and stalk', but as I also mentioned, the caribou was at 87 yd, and that was as close as I could get. Ironically, the only sheep I've taken with a bow and arrow was at about 7 paces. I was waiting in ambush behind a rock in a saddle as a friend 'drove' them to me. And I took a black bear over bait.

For some reason, I have little interest in hunting with a bow from a tree stand. Although I did quite a bit of that when I actually lived in Missouri instead of just visited there. On YouTube, one can see lots of very close bow shots on moose, but those are bulls called in during the rut. I wonder about those... There are VERY few opportunities to hunt moose during the rut in Alaska these days. Fish and game closes most areas LONG before the rut starts. If you can't call them in, you gotta 'chase 'em', and that means LONG shots, at best. I've shot three moose with bow and arrow, and all three were 50 - 70 yard shots.

Anyway, thanks for the tutorial. It was very interesting and informative.


Paul

[Nelsdou]

Note to all:
I managed to finally crack the shaft head of my bamboo arrow from which I had removed the brass collar. I amended the posts above to state my recommendation on adding collars to include bamboo shafts.

[Nelsdou]

Another observation on bamboo shafts and use of the 5/16" Arrow-Fix drill jig.


Since there is a natural variance in shaft diameters from shaft to shaft, one can encounter some drill run out error on keeping the drill bit concentric down the shaft.  The minor amount of misalignment for the Arrow-Fix point insert can look trivial but after slipping a long broad head over the point one can notice the larger effect.
 

For shafts smaller than 5/16" diameter I'll look for some kind of centering collar or maybe use tape to build up the shaft to the appropriate diameter to keep the drill bit true.