Making My Own 8mm Jacketed Bullets

[gitano]

There's a heckova lot of "work" done before cam-over. That is just the place in the stroke where the mechanical advantage is greatest.

Set up is correct. As I said, in order to reach the point in the stroke of the ram where the lever arm 'cams over' would require the press to be high enough off of the floor that the handle was pointed straight down - 180 degrees from the "load" position.

Since;
1) an EMPTY jacket would not "close" up, I seriously doubt a 'full' one will.
2) Not ONE of the other bullets made by the jacket supplier have jackets closed more than the ones I made are, I seriously doubt the jacket will close up "no problem'.
3) The jacket walls thickened by AT LEAST 15% with the very small amount of "closing" done, I do not share your opinion that the "35 thou jacket will close up - no problem."
4) The lead billet swaged INTO the extraction port of the PFD illustrates beyond any doubt whatsoever that the stroke is WELL past a point where the copper jacket could close up f it were possible to do so.

I'll say it again for emphasis: The dies are properly set up.

Paul

[gitano]

OK - The problem is "solved" (as inspector Clouseau would say).

The problem was  the where the ram attached to the 'base unit' that attached to the handle. There are two positions one can connect the ram. One for "swaging", and one for "reloading". I had the ram connected in the wrong place.

Once that was rectified, I was able to ''squeeze" the jacket "no problem". However, there will be no "closing" the tip on these jackets as they are too short to do that. By the time the tip approaches the place in the die of minimum diameter, (about 0.115"), there is no bearing surface left. In the picture below, you can see some of the pieces I swaged. They range in weight from left to right 123 g, 119 g, 103g. As you can also see, the 'mouths' close up progressing to the right. (Although the middle one doesn't look smaller than the one on the left, it is.) There is only about 0.125" of bearing surface on the bullet on the right. Note also the 'flat' bases.



All of this is 'fine' to know, but it doesn't change the focus, which is the "Ain't No Varmint Bullet".

Next on the "to do" list, is make a core seating punch that helps form the cavity for the plastic point. At that point, (pun intended), I can fine tune the final weight.

I am seriously thinking about skipping the core seating operation. The swaged core comes out of the the core swaging die at 0.250" and that fits right in the jacket. The round bottom of the jacket 'captures' the edge of the core sufficient to hold it enough to get it placed in the point forming die. As the point is swaged, the core is swaged into the jacket. Therefore, I could simply make another core SWAGING punch with the proper 'nose' profile, and skip the core seating operation. SInce I am not one of those that considers it "bullet failure" when core and jacket separate, I'm not particularly concerned about how well the core is "bonded" to the jacket.

I'll be thinking about this.

Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

So they do 'close up' then?

[gitano]

That depends on what you call "close up".

I was able to ''squeeze" the jacket "no problem". However, there will be no "closing" the tip on these jackets as they are too short to do that. By the time the tip approaches the place in the die of minimum diameter, (about 0.115").

An opening of 0.115" is not my idea of "closed". However, the thickness of the jacket is not what is preventing "closure".

As I acknowledged, there was "no problem" getting the jacket to conform to the point forming die's shape. Further pressure would simply force the point into something like you see in the right hand bullet in the picture in post #77. More importantly,
1) there is no bearing surface left, and
2) I'm not interested in 'closing' the point other than as an exercise.
That exercise is over. I know what I need to know about the press.

There is one other operation that might change 'things' a bit with respect to 'pointing' a 0.6" bullet with an 8R ogive. It might be true that forcing the bottom flat in a separate operation would change the behavior of the core such that when the proper amount of lead were used, it wouldn't "poke out" of the tip. Still, that remains irrelevant, as I am completely uninterested in either a flat base or a "sharp" (0.115") point.  I will achieve what I want with plastic tips, not PSI.

Paul

[drinksgin (deceased)]

Re , handle position, old quote, "If all else fails, read the instructions on the bottom of the boot heel!"

[gitano]

I DO read instructions just like I DON'T strong-arm things. However, this is a "made in a garage" press that did not come with instructions to read. HOWEVER, I should have realized what the problem was. I was just tired of screwing around with this &$*^%$ press and didn't give enough thought to which hole to use when I assembled the thing.

Paul

[gitano]

Here is Hornady's response to my request for them to sell me some of their plastic tips.

Paul

Thank you for your email.   It sounds like your keep busy making bullets.   Unfortunately the tips are made under contract for us and they are used in our manufacture.   So we are unable to sell you any.
Thank you again.

Hornady Sales Team
Phone 1-800-338-3220


Pretty much what I expected. I expect the same thing from Nosler.

Paul

[Jamie.270]

My contact at Nosler confirms your expectations Paul.  Sorry

[gitano]

Thanks for checking, Jamie.270. I didn't have high hopes for either place. Personally, I think they are 'missing the boat'. It's another component that they 1) have on hand, and 2) could sell for a tidy profit I'm sure. That's not speculation on my part. You'll note that Cutting Edge is selling theirs, so the 'business model' is already in place. Oh well, these bullet manufacturers never ask me for my opinion. :)

Thanks again,
Paul

[Jamie.270]

Aside from investing $80K in a 3D printer, ( ) are you interested in making your own tips?

I have an idea for molding your own, which would be fairly cost effective, (<$.06 ea. after start-up costs) and not too time consuming.

[22hornet]

The above tips were made by j0e-bl0gg's brother on his 3-D printer. Took less than an hour to 'print'. (I think it's an $80,000 printer). Pretty darn cool!
 
Here's a closer shot:

 
I like the translucent look.
 
Paul

Wow! They look do look good.

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Aside from investing $80K in a 3D printer, ( ) are you interested in making your own tips?

I have an idea for molding your own, which would be fairly cost effective, (<$.06 ea. after start-up costs) and not too time consuming.

Looking into polycarbonate injection moulding.
The injection moulder for home use is pretty simple to construct, getting the 'tooling' for the part is a little more challenging!

[gitano]

Aside from investing $80K in a 3D printer, ( ) are you interested in making your own tips?

I have an idea for molding your own, which would be fairly cost effective, (<$.06 ea. after start-up costs) and not too time consuming.

YOU BET! ALWAYS open to ideas about "rolling my own".

Lemme know what you have in mind.

Paul

[gitano]

Getting pretty close to 'punching paper'. Should have some for testing this weekend. Won't have the British tips for a bit, but I have 25 of the Cutting Edge 50-cent-apiece ones. That should allow me to:
1) Get some muzzle velocities,
2) Kill some milk jugs, and
3) See if several of them will "hit close together."

Paul

[RatherBHuntin]

How do they attach the tips to the bullet?  Are they just squeezed in there? Pressed? Glued? Bullets swaged around them?