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Why does it make them easier.  The probe looks like an ideal solution?

The Korean fittings are notorious for leaking, and o-rings wearing quickly.  Huge pain in the rear.  The foster adapter doesn't require o-rings.  Most of the people I know with a 909 have the foster adapter.....for a reason.

The Koreans really should listen to us, and ditch their poorly designed fittings for the foster adapter.  Someday.

You will want to keep your o-rings lightly lubed with silicone grease.  Don't use petroleum products in a PCP airgun.

     Order one of these foster fill adapters ASAP.  It will save you grief down the road, and makes airfills much easier.  


http://www.adventuresinairguns.com/quick-release-adapter-careersam-yang-p-256.html

Seems to me, from what I read, that these air rifles are similar in performance to many common handgun cartridges.  .40 caliber might be similar in performance to a .40 S&W, and a .45 caliber air rifle would be similar to a .45 ACP.
 
I know Barry has killed coyotes at close to 100 yards with a .45 ACP, so I'm not sure I'd want to be shot at with one of these air rifles.  They're likely a bit more accurate than a handgun.

Bigbore airguns are nothing to sneeze at.  Excellent game killers at short range.  It's all about shot placement and wound channel.....it will put a big hole in one end and out the other.

Mine does anyway, and there are .45 caliber air rifles available on the market that are twice as powerful as mine, matching the ballistics of the original .45Colt load which has killed countless North American big game animals at 100 yards.

Click on the picture below, and check out the slide show.

I wrote this a couple weeks ago.  Thought I'd share it here.




     I wanted to test these yesterday after work, but there was a lot more gravel to be raked than I thought, so I only had time to shoot one shot string of these 245grain .456 HollowPointed RCBS Single Action Army (cast in 25:1 alloy) thru my tuned 909 using a 3000psi fill. I figured it would be worth doing just to analyze the results, and base further testing off of them.

1. 662
2. 667
3. 679
4. 682
5. 670 end psi 2200


What to gather from these initial numbers? My first curiosity with these particular slugs was whether or not velocity would suffer with this hard of lead. Cast in 25:1 alloy, I'm guessing the BHN of these slugs is somewhere between 9.5 and 10. I think this could very well be the hardest alloy I have shot out of this rifle.

Compared to the fastest 245grainer I have tried so far (practically pure lead .457 REAL's no harder than BHN6 tops), the power drops off a bit with the HP SAA slugs using the same 3000psi fill (which is a great fill pressure to use in my rifle for the 245gr. REAL). The shot count with the 25:1 HP SAA's added another shot into a 20fps maximum variance, making this the first load I have recorded in this particular rifle that has given me 5 shots within a maximum 20fps variance. It also used the same amount of air to make those five shots that most other slugs I shoot use-up in four shots. The curve of this string indicates to me that further testing at different (likely lower) fill pressures could yield some improvement in power.....might even maintain the 5 shots within 20fps while doing so. Hmmmmmmmm.......

The .456 HP SAA, along with being cast from the harder .25:1 alloy, has a lot of contact area with those fat bands. Aside from the alloy being harder, those fat bands could be a big contributor to why the HP SAA slug initially appears to be a bit slow. Wish I had the same exact design in pure lead to compare with this alloy, to establish how much of a factor the lead hardness is. That comparison would simultaneaously go a long ways towards establishing just how much of a factor those fat bands are. The RCBS SAA design has a MASSIVE base band.

I couldn't wait to get out to the ranch and get to more testing today. I only had so many of the SAA's, so I had to test them sparingly. I DID have plenty of HP #454424's cast in 50/50 clip-on wheelweight-pure lead that tested BHN8.5 the day after they were cast. That was a while ago, so these may be slightly harder by now as can happen to cast boolits with age. I cannot come close to putting a dent in these boolits with my fingernail.
I have previously shot some pure lead versions of these HP #454424's cast from the same mold, and those were very accurate. I only wished I had more of the REAL's on hand for this test as well, since I have yet to do a complete string of 245's with all the shots being out of the same batch of boolits. Think I may very well get 5 shots within 20fps with those heavy .457 REAL's, too.

Now for some answers, along with some more questions lol.

Went back out to the ranch today to test these hollowpoints for accuracy, and see if the harder lead appears to have much of an effect on velocity. Test rifle is a tuned SamYang 909 with a Zeiss Conquest 1.8-5.5X38mm scope set to 5.5 power. Shots were taken from the prone position (I'm not used to it) using my tacklebox as a rest from a distance of a measured 50yards. F-1 Chrony was set a measured ten feet from the muzzle, and leveled with a leveler. Today I set things up for doing chrony testing, and accuracy testing simultaneously. Paper targets were changed after every string. I factor in a 25psi margin of error on all fill pressures, because it is tough to read the gauge much closer than that.

Two designs were tested today. The first design tested is the .456 (un-sized, but .456 for the most part) RCBS Single Action Army design modified to drop HP's, weighing 245-246grains cast from 25:1 alloy. The mold pin used to make these boolits created a cavity just a tad over .25 inch wide at the nose, and just a bit shy of .5 inch deep (the boolit measures .75 inches long).

Please excuse the poor pictures.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/HPBoolitTesting017...

The second boolit design was the original HP #454424 (pretty rare mold), dropping slugs that were .457-.458 un-sized (.457 for the most part), and weighed about 230grains (give or take a grain). The cavity was .20 in width at the nose, and about .5 inch deep (these slugs are 11/16's in length). These slugs were cast using a 50/50 alloy consisting of clip-on wheel weights/pure pb. I have had excellent results in the past (accuracy wise) shooting these same slugs cast in pure lead.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/HPBoolitTesting016...

The first string/group of the day was 4 shots of the HP'd RCBS SAA design using a 2900psi fill. Chrony string was 1)674.9 2)685.6 3)685.0 4.668.0 end psi 2100, and here is the "group" that resulted.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/HPBoolitTesting001...

Discouraging to say the least. What happened here? Granted these were the first shots of the day, but no way did I mess-up THAT bad shooting off a rest. So I moved on to the next string, shooting the 230grain .457-.458 HP #454424's using a 2900psi fill. The shot string was as follows: 1)696.4 2)709.8 3)704.8 4)690.6 end psi 2150

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/HPBoolitTesting002...

Shot #1 was pretty low in comparison with the rest of the group, despite being very close in velocity. I recalled seeing this happen before, but wanted to make sure it was the gun causing it, and not me. So I repeated the test with the same fill pressure, and for string #2 using this boolit I got 1)682.0 2)695.5 3)702.6 4)689.8 end pressure 2150

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/HPBoolitTesting013...

Well now.....it appears that despite the numbers being pretty tight, the rifle/valve/what have you just does not like to shoot this boolit at 2900psi, and throws the first shot low from the rest.

I then went back to the 245grain HP'd SAA design, and shot this string: 1)672.7 2)682.6 3)690.2 4)668.9 (forgot to record end fill pressure on this one)

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/HPBoolitTesting009...

This boolit makes nice chrony strings, but accuracy is looking pretty dismal at this point.

So I went back to the 230grain HP #454424's, this time using a 2800psi fill in an effort to get rid of the low first shot I was experiencing. I got a string of 1)702.5 2)709.1 3)697.9 4)678.7 end pressure 2025psi, and here are the results on paper.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/HPBoolitTesting011...

Despite falling outside my desired maximum variance of 20fps (by about 11fps), the low first shot was now gone, and the accuracy of these four shots showed to be very good. The first two shots went into the same hole.

For the last string/test of the day, I shot 3 of my remaining 4 HP'd SAA boolits (saving the last one for a terminal ballistics test) using a 2800psi fill. 1)683.0 2)685.8 3)682.9, and got this on paper.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/HPBoolitTesting015...

General thoughts on the 245grain .456 HP'd RCBS Single Action Army design: these slugs go about 25fps slower than the .457 245grain REAL's cast in pure lead (fastest boolit this weight so far). It remains to be seen whether or not the velocity difference is due to the extremely fat bands on this boolit (especially the base), the 25:1 alloy, or a bit of both. I will be ordering pure-lead versions of this boolit for further testing so I can try to figure out what is causing the reduced velocity.

Accuracy was non-existent. I am hypothesizing that this may be due to the cavity style used. The caster has about 4 different mold pins that create four different styles of cavity for this mold, and the cavity/mold pin used for these boolits is the most extreme of the four cavity styles. When I order more of these slugs, I am going to try all four cavity styles in an effort to see whether or not a different style of cavity will improve the accuracy of this boolit design.

General thoughts on the original Lyman #454424 HP design: This was quite interesting. I established that the rifle's first shot did not like that extra 100psi in the fill despite the velocity being right where it should be. I am hypothesizing that this has something to do with how the valve functions when shooting this booit, thus affecting the time spent in the barrel. I will try a 2850psi fill next time, in an effort to tighten the numbers while avoiding that low first shot.

Accuracy with these 50/50 alloy HP #454424 boolits was very good....apparently identical to the accuracy the pure lead versions displayed. Good enough that this will probably be my new heavyweight target/plinking round. I wish I had had the time to test some pure lead 230grainers for a velocity comparison.....I will do that soon. Good power regardless, despite the alloy being on the hard side as far as airgun slugs are concerned.

General thoughts overall: No matter what the chrony says, you have to see what is going down on paper before establishing both the correct fill pressure, and how accurate that fill pressure will be with any given design. The harder alloy used in this batch of HP #454424's does not appear to be slowing down the velocities a great deal, if at all. The 50/50 WW-pb alloy APPEARS to be just as fast as the pure lead, but that remains to be seen. Prior testing with this design in pure lead was done before my rifle had some work done to it that upped the power a little, so a comparison between the two alloys using the strings I recorded before the work was done to the rifle would not be valid. I may be able to obtain more of the HP#454424's cast from pure lead for further testing.

What next? Testing the accuracy of the HP #454424's at further ranges, and requesting more HP'd SAA's cast in the same alloy, but with the other three cavity styles in an effort to establish whether or not the cavity is having an affect on the lack of accuracy I am experiencing with this boolit. I will also request more of them made from dead-soft lead, with all four cavity styles being represented to see if the softer lead, and/or the different cavities result in some accuracy. It will also be interesting to see if the softer lead improves velocity.

Any comments, ideas, or observations are welcome, and encouraged.

In an air rifle is lube required??

No.  

Some black powder lube can actually clog your barrel up (this happened to me on a hog hunt, and cost me big time).  Some people like to use some sort of lube.  I don't use it at all.

I went with the 909S, and I think I am glad I did.  I have not yet fired it as I still dont have either a tank or a pump.  I am more than satisfied with the gun.  The craftsmanship is excellent.  I have some 215 grain pellets and on order are some 45 cal balls.

I have already convinced three people to get one just based on the craftsmanship of the rifle.  I havent been able to demonstrate it and yet they are clamoring for one.

I will wait untill the warranty (one year) is out before I do the power tuning as I dont want to modify the gun while it is still in waranty

Sweet!

Here are some ammo links for you.  Try to stay away from boolits harder than BHN10 or so to keep velocities up.  You also don't want anything smaller than .454  .457/.458 works well, too.  .457 roundball tends to work better than .454 RB.

Try some MaxiBalls (almost guaranteed accuracy with MaxiBalls), REAL's, Lyman #454424, EPP/UG's (awesome, awesome lightweight boolit), .45Slims (super-accurate), PRS250's.....my 909 shoots sub 1 inch groups at 50 yards off of steady stix all the time.



http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/Accessory%20page.htm (BHN 9)

http://www.dashcaliber.com/big_lube_1_15.html

http://www.bpstuffllc.com/index.htm

//www.cowboybullets.com

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=616817

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_311_313&products_id=1365

:stars:I thought I had made up my mind on a Sam Yang 909s.  But then at the last moment I got to looking at the Dragonslayer.  I should have just stopped looking when I was satisfied.

Now I am mulling over the two and trying to make a decision.  Maybe I should buy both??? Yeah, my wife would really go for that...#8-)  Hey, maybe an anniversary present of His and Her air guns...........no....don't think it would fly.

So the question I am asking is, why one or the other?  What are the pluses and minuses of each.

The points I am making to myself are as below.  BUT...they may be incorrect.  I may not have read the data correctly.  So I am asking for some help to make sure the data I am working from is correct.

1) the Dragonslayer has a larger slug (.50) so for the same MV would have a greater killing power then the slightly smaller (.45) 909S.  I dont know if the Dragonslayer can be souped up or not?

2) The 909S has a higher MV out of the box and can be souped up to even greater power so maybe it already has equal killing power and if upgraded to 900fps will have greater killing power than the Dragonslayer?

3) I havent the foggiest idea which is the more accurate, any ideas???

4) Since I will be mounting a scope it really doesnt matter that the Dragonslayer comes without sights.

5) The 909S is about 10% less expensive up front.

6) The accessories, tank, pellets/bullets are about equal in cost.

7) The game I will be hunting are, in order of my first kill, Coyote, Javelina, and Deer.  All are within the capabilities of both guns.

Any helpful insights would be appreciated.

Buy the SamYang.  Adventures in Airguns has the best deal on them.

Not much ammo out there for the DS, and the lower velocity of the DS makes it less effective on game.  The DS can be tuned for more power, but not as much as the Sam Yang guns.

Whatever you get, get it powertuned.  Sooooooo worth it!

When tuned to their power-efficiency potential, you can get two tight shots with a 909S, and about 4, maybe even 5 with the 2tube/Light Hunter 909 before getting into the lower (and declining with each shot)) powered "finisher" shots on an airfill.

A tuned 909S can be dialed in to get about two shots that are more powerful than a tuned 2tube 909 with some boolits, then the shots are generally less powerful then the 2tube 909 guns' four or five shots. So you may have to use some holdover for shot three, and even more for shot four with the 909S depending on the range, boolit used, and size of your target.

If you are planning on taking only two shots on a fill of air using the same point of aim at any given time, particularly if you are wanting to use very heavy boolits (over 250grains), then the 909S would be the one.

If you don't want/need to shoot boolits over 250grains, and like having more shots per fill that all hit right where you put the cross hairs, with most any boolit 250grains and under, that will all punch thru a deer broadside at 50 yards then the 2tube 909 "Light hunter" is the way to go.

Buy the HillPump.  It is re-buildable, and the stoutest pump on the market.  Once the other pumps die, you are out of luck.

When I clock on this URL I get a blank page with the words "909s recall" across the top.  Is there a better link?  I am considering just this gun for purchase in the very near future and would like to know about the recall.

The problem was that when cocked, something brushing up against the cocking lever would release the sear, causing the rifle to fire.  They have fixed it now.

I'll try to write a detailed summary this evening.  Here is a web-site to check out in the meantime.


Well, for some reason the word filter is blocking out part of the web-sites name.  I don't mean to skirt the word filter, as I'm sure it is mistaking the name of the site as being something indecent.  But I think that it is OK to type my way around it, as I'm sure I am not violating the spirit of the filter's purpose.  There is nothing in any way profane on this site.  

The site is www. h a r d c o r e b i g b o r e.com without the spaces (RockinBBar, I hope this is acceptable).

Thanks guys!

Ditto all the above. Really enjoyed the read. Is the the airgun a requisite to get on the timber land?

No, I just went to their office and requested a permit to hunt some of their land.  No conditions AFA weapons are concerned.  

We are truly blessed up here in Oregon when it comes to the availability of land to hunt, both public and private.  I've seen coyote sign most everywhere I have hunted.

Keep an eye on the airgun section of this site.  I will put together a little write-up on these bigbore airguns sometime soon.

A couple of days ago, I visited the office of a local timber company, and requested permission to hunt on their land.  When giving permission to hunt their land, it is their policy to allow you to hunt up to four of their properties, and there are several to choose from (most of them fairly large).  

     The property I hunted today was one of the smallest properties available, but it looked like a real good spot with very dense timberland that could be covered nicely in an afternoon's hunt.  It is relatively close to a bit of isolated farmland, so despite it's small size I included it in the four properties I chose to include on my permit (they actually cut me some slack, and allowed me five properties).

     My strategy with this area was to call at low to medium volume depending on the surrounding terrain of the location I made my stand, setting-up numerous 1/2 hour to 45 minute stands that weren't to far apart from each-other, so as to make the most of this relatively small area.  

     Against my better judgment, I decided to go hunting by myself today in prime Cougar country, as the hunting partner I have been planning to go calling with lately is out hunting bear this weekend.  Sometimes I just HAVE TO HUNT!

     I arrived at the gate sometime after 9am.  I made my way up the closed-off logging road, and chose an area in some pretty thick woods to make my first stand.  I then broke out the Circe MVP-4, and selected the low volume voice (sqweaker).  I called for about ten seconds, waited about 10 minutes, then called again for another ten seconds.  After about 10-15 minutes of hearing and seeing nothing, I decided to head out to find a more promising location.  

     A bit less than 1/2 mile down the road, I came across this clearcut.



     I got my decoy out of my hip bag (Turkey feather tied with some fishing line to a fold-out stick), stuck it into the ground, and set up on a berm overlooking the clearcut about 30 yards downwind of the decoy.  After settling into my position, and taking some time to study my surroundings, I let out a medium volume distress for about ten seconds, using the Primos Cat Nip (a bite-type handcall).

     After about one minute (if that), I detected movement about 200 yards away on the far ridge of the clearcut.  I immediately got that hunters rush, as I realized it was what I was after: a coyote!  I could see that it was a high-bellied critter, and figured that if it was a female, it was likely a dry one.

     The coyote made it's way into the clearcut, and stopped to survey it's surroundings about 50 yards in, and about 150 yards from my stand.  "Don't....move" I told myself, trying to settle myself down.  My heart was about to burst out of my chest, as I knew that the coyote was definitely on a direct course towards my location.  There is a grass road that comes out of the clearcut, and meets the logging road about 30 yards to my right, so I set up accordingly should a coyote come from the clearcut.

     Making it's way further in, the coyote again stopped to look around.  It was now about 75 yards out.  I took a quick inventory of the wind: crosswind from my left.  I was OK for now.  Venturing further into the clearcut, the coyote stopped once again to survey the surroundings at about 50 yards.  If the coyote took another couple of steps, it would be under the berm on the other side of the road, and out of my line of sight.  

     Do I dare move the rifle from my lap, and take the shot?  I would have to stand up if the coyote saw me and ran (pretty sure it would have), and I would only have a moving shot without a rest at that point; there was no time to grab the mono-pod.  Not a high-percentage (ie airgunning) shot.  

     Then I recalled a word of advice I had read on the PredatorMasters forum just before heading out that morning.  A poster named Vent-O-Later had responded to a newbie's request for guidance, with the words "be patient....if you see one come in, let it come on in".  So that is what I did.

     The coyote continued on it's path, and out of sight behind the berm in front of me.  The berm was between the grass road coming from the clearcut, and the logging road that was in front of my stand.  I took this opportunity to put the rifle to my shoulder, take a breath or two, and prepare myself.  

     Sure enough, the coyote came up the grass clearcut road, and onto the logging road, turned my direction, and HEADED STRAIGHT FOR ME AT ABOUT 20 yards!

     This is the view of the green grass road coming out of the clearcut.  I was sitting to the right of the intersection.



     Being set-up on another slight berm, I was slightly above the coyote.  It was very slightly quartering towards me on it's approach, and had it's nose to the ground, so I didn't have the frontal chest shot I was after.  No moving head-shots for me.  

     Now it was downwind from me, and about 12-15 yards away.  I was about to BLOW A GASKET waiting for it to cross my path before putting the scope to my eye, which would have been no more than 15 feet in front of me!  

     Then the coyote seemed to sense something it didn't like (ya think?) and took a sharp left turn, and started to head towards the cover up the berm I was sitting on.  It was now, or never!  

     Focusing my aiming eye on the coyote, quickly raised my Leroy-tuned SamYang 909 .456 air rifle, and got it in my sights.  I didn't sqweak or bark to try and stop it, as I figured at this close of range it would only alarm the coyote more than it may already be.  I thought it would see the movement and stop, and it did.  Right before it was about to get it's nose into the thick cover, it stopped on the berm and looked right at me, giving me a full-on broadside shot at very close range.  

     The words that a friend of mine used to describe the importance of immediately taking advantage of a shot opportunity on game rang true thru my head as if he were right there next to me shouting them in my ear.........RIGHT NOW!!!

     !!!BLAPTHWUMP!!!  Then the coyote ran into the thick woods.

     I reloaded my bigbore air rifle, and ran to the last spot I saw the coyote; looking for any signs of blood.  Upon entering the timber, I found blood after about 5 yards.  I then gathered my thoughts.  I said to myself, "OK self, that shot was a little farther back than I wanted (correct shot placement on a broadside coyote is "on the shoulder"), but it was still only a little bit behind the shoulder/armpit, so it definitely took out the lungs.  There's blood here, so take it easy, and see how the trail is looking".

     The blood trail was a steady one, so I made sure to take my time, and mark the blood spots by sticking branches into the ground where I saw blood.  I made certain to do this very quietly, in a slow, methodical fashion.  I wanted to give the coyote time to die, and not prematurely jump it from it's deathbed.  After following the bloodtrail for about 60-70 yards I thought I could hear the coyote thrashing around another 30-40 yards or so ahead, just over a ridge.  So I held tight, and waited for what seemed like an eternity (probably about 10-15minutes).  

     Having not heard any more thrashing about for awhile, I continued to slowly follow the bloodtrail until I came across my dead-as-a-doornail quarry.

     My first coyote (a dry female) and BY FAR my greatest hunting achievement to date.  Taken by myself, with a handcall, and a .456 air rifle.













Needless to say, I'm pretty stoked!

http://www.pyramydair.com/recall-909s.html

Curious who all hunts with the PCP, and bigbore airguns here, and what your quarry is.  

     I myself have only one airgun at the moment: a souped-up .454 caliber SamYang 909.  I have taken a small wild boar, a corsican ram, and several smaller game  animals and varmints with it.  

     Going to go be hunting predators hard starting on the first of the new year (that's when the Bigbore Airgun Coyote Contest starts), and Whitetail deer whee legal (in Missouri and ???) next fall.

The whole concept of the "coyote dog" is very interesting.  

     I am looking into getting a set of Patterdale Terriers for hunting nutria and possibly Bobcat sometime in the future.  But they would be a bit small to be tangling with coyote.

     The dogs I have now would probably have only one thing on their mind if they ever saw a coyote, especially my male.  There's no way I could call him back, and once his half sister got some coyote experience under her belt she would be the same way I'm sure.

     Here is my male when he was about 14 months or so.  He's turned out to be a bit bigger than I was hoping for at about 53+lbs now.  His half sister is much more manageable at just under 40 I'm guessing.  If I ever have trouble finding one I may bring him out to look for it; need to check the local regulations.  Coyotes aren't really regulated here.