One Fox a month.

[jaeger88]

Yesterday evening was nice, so thought Id maybe try my luck for another Fox.

It  was  pretty windy so decided to give the 6.5 X 55 an airing, as the 85g  .264 Sierra Varminter's would hopefully work in my favor, as opposed to  the 50g & 52g bullets out of my .222 or .22-250.

Or in other words they may compensate a little for my lousy & futile attempt at doping any cross wind.

Well after Dr4Body's epic Canadian Wolf adventure, I'm not even gonna attempt to make a story out of this !.

Suffice it to say, I spent 2 hours sitting in the bottom of a ditch till it was almost too dark to shoot, when Mr Fox appeared 50yds to my left. I gave him a squeak,  he stopped to look & paid the price. I paced the shot out at only 57yds.

So thats 3 this year so far.

[gitano]

That's a very healthy and good looking dog fox! And... Looks pretty good after taking an 85-grain .264 bullet, too! AND... very nice looking rifle! Congrats!

Paul

[jaeger88]

Cheers Paul, he was in great condition.  

Rifle is my Carl Gustaf's 2000. Topped with a Leupold 3 to 12 x 42 VXII ( I think ), with a Sonic 35 sound moderator, Load was 48g H380 behind that 85g Sierra Varminter.

Maybe not every ones ideal varmint rifle or caliber, but it does the job

I would have expected more physical damage than I saw.

[sakorick]

Great gun, super fox and shot!

[gitano]

I just pencil-whipped that load in QuickLOAD assuming a 24" barrel and a seating depth of 1 caliber, and the muzzle velocity was a whopping 3181 f/s! That's 'moving along smartly'! At 57 paces and I can't see the 'hole'! Did you scare it to death?

Paul

[gitano]

That action looks very "Sauer", and the stock looks very "Steyr". Both appealing to my eye.

Paul

PS - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/630390017 Just what I "need". Another .308 Win. Good lookin' rifle though!

Paul

[buckshot roberts]

what Paul said about your rifle, that's a nice fox....Ron

[jaeger88]

[FONT="]Well I didn't drag that Fox a mile & half back to my car, & it was getting a bit dark for a good look at it, so I left it tucked in the hedge for my Gamekeeper mate to collect the next day.
He looked & found an entry hole between  2 rib's, but no exit wound.

QuickLoad puzzles me at time's, it doesn't seem to like H380.

My all time favorite .22-250 load is 40g H380 behind a 52g Hornady A-Max.
QuickLoad says this is way over pressure, but Hornady give 41g H380 with a 55g bullet as Maximum load.

I'm getting no signs of over pressure with 40g, in R.P brass, (Which seems to have a greater case capacity than Federal or [/FONT][FONT="]Winchester[/FONT][FONT="] brass), & I've reloaded the same brass 6/7 times. Though I'm getting some split necks on Nickel plated cases now.
I don't anneal any of my brass.

Similar situation with the 6.5 X 55 with Sierra 85g Varminters & H380.
QuickLoad says 48g is near maximum pressure, but Sierra give 50.6 grains as max.

I've loaded ( carefully !.) up to 50g & found no high pressure signs. Again, my 6.5 brass has been loaded 4/5 times.

The Carl Gustaf's 2000 action does indeed look very similar to the Sauer action, and I did research it a bit to see if they were the same, but I turned up nothing conclusive.

Think I may be doing Sauer/Gustaf's comparison with j0e_bl0ggs tomorrow.
 
 [/FONT]

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

That action looks very "Sauer", and the stock looks very "Steyr". Both appealing to my eye.

Paul

PS - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/630390017 Just what I "need". Another .308 Win. Good lookin' rifle though!

Paul

OK, just to clear things up, that rifle on gunbroker is a Carl Gustaf 3000 not 2000 as advertised!

Jagers 6.5 rifle is a CG2000, conventional 3 lug turnbolt as opposed to the CG3000 which is a re-badged Sauer 80 - effectively a straight pull.





Carl Gustaf 3000:



Sauer 80/90 bolt


...

[gitano]

Hmmm.....!!!

QuickLOAD (QL) can be very accurate, BUT... you HAVE to put precise data in. You know the old programming saying; "Garbage in - garbage out". That applies in spades to QL. However, don't take that as 'defense' of QL. I have found many quirks with it. One big one is the "bulk density" variable. The bulk density of powder 1) varies from lot to lot, but more importantly, 2) varies GREATLY OVER TIME. In other words the older your powder the "hotter" it gets. I posted a 'treatise" on this here http://thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13541&highlight=bulk+density.

I have never played with H380 powder, but I can tell you that QL does indeed "like" and "dislike" certain powders. For God knows what reason, it "likes" I3031. I THINK the reason it gets 'surprising' results (both pro and con) is that the author relies on manufacturers to provide the data on the specifics of the powders. Any time a manufacturer is asked to provide data that has anything to do with the performance of their product, I get squinty-eyed when I look at that data. Not that it is automatically wrong, but if 'things' start looking 'funny', the FIRST place I look is at the manufacturer-supplied data.

"No exit" is a surprise for sure! That is a "varmint" bullet, AND it was going fast from the muzzle, AND the range was 'close', so I suppose it could "blow up" inside. What's also true though is that fox are not exactly 'large' critters. Once I get them peeled, most of the ones I shoot are not much larger than a large domestic cat, running in the 10 lb area. That's not a lot of mass to stop the KE of that bullet. Assuming a MV of 3182 from QL, the KE at 57 yd for that bullet = 1516 ft-lbs. That's like dropping 3/4 of a ton on the fox from a foot above it. I'd think even if the bullet completely "disintegrated" immediately after entry that the "frontal wave" would blow out the other side. BUT... you just can't argue (intelligently) with reality. Unless of course, you're an "expert" - ptooey.

All in all, a great story: Dead fox; interesting terminal performance regardless paper-whipped numbers; nice rifle. What more to ask? Maybe that 6.5 will become your new 'fox gun'. :D

Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

H380 and ql certainly do not work, data is miles off. Predictions never matched reality!

[gitano]

By the way, that WHOLE CG-3000 WITH 'SCOPE, is cheaper than the  M-90 Sauer BOLT ALONE at the "Custom Shop". I wonder if the CG 3000 trigger group fits the Sauer 90?

Paul

[gitano]

H380 and ql certainly do not work, data is miles off. Predictions never matched reality!

???? See attached QL output. I don't see any great problems. In fact, I would say QL matches closer to the reported reality than the "load manuals" data.

Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Never got a viable prediction for the 22-250, gave up with it!

[gitano]

Again, I'm neither 'defending' QL or questioning 'y'all's' experience with QL and H380. Rather, I'm just pointing out that when I put in the "standard" numbers for H380 and a 24"-barreled 6.5x55, I get 'modest' pressure values with a 48-grain load, and 'tolerable' pressure with a 50-grain load.

I would point out that American reloading manuals are notorious for being STUPID with respect to "foreign" cartridges. ESPECIALLY if they were a EVER a military cartridge. "You KNOW you can't trust the strength of those "old" military actions". Makes my blood pressure rise!

Paul