Parker Hale unveiled

[Big Banger]

Here is a picture of my '71 Parker Hale 1200 Super Clip .300 Win Mag for those of you who are interested.
Mat

[Brithunter]

Hi Mat,

    This is only a theory of mine but I suspect that P-H used a different serial number range for the new model (1200C) for example my 1100M has a 4 digit serial number 1699 (notice no prefix) and this rifle was made in 1981. P-H also used  actions from a couple at least of suppliers. Late production seems to be (from my sample of 3 rifles being 1 x 1100 & 2 x 1200 so only a small sample ) from Santa Barbra in Spain but for the model Hussar which I had never heard of but now have a photo of one used a Brno action and rumour has it that some were built on German Actions siezed from the German factories at the close of WW2 and held in storage at  Golden Hillock Road.

   When you have the stocks off some time look closely at the side of the tang of the action this is where Spain is normally stamped. On two of mine it's barely readable being applied before the action was finished and the final polish has all but removed it, on the other it's legible, now how much finishing was left to do again I don't know :o  it's another of those things I would like to find out about .

    Ahhhh looking at the different serial numbers on my rifles I notice that the 1970 made 6mm 1200V has a high serial number P38302 whilst the 1200 7.92mm rifle made in 1988 is B06231 and the 1100 in .30-06 made in 1984 is S17008.

  Looking at them and the date of manufacture it seems logical that they restarted the serial number range  unless and this is the fly in the ointment  that the export special order 7.92mm and other special exports had their own number range and that the model 1100 had a different serial number range to the 1200's . However seeing as the action of the 1200 Super and 1100 is identical it would seem logical to machine and finish them as a "standard" numbering them as they go through production then fitting the barrel, sights & stock etc for each model requirement.

  The 1200C is different due to the drop out magazine and although I have never examined them closely I am assuming that the machining of the action is lightly different. I also believe that the 1200C led to the P-H Scout rifle which has a 10 round drop mag Laminated wood stock and a muzzle break as std and was offered in .243 and .308 only, it was meant to appeal to the Practical crowd after the ban of semi auto rifles in the UK. Hmm that's another model to add to the wish list :o .

[Big Banger]

Hi Brithunter,
Interesting theory, I guess we will never know for sure.

If you want some pictures of the clip assembly I will take it apart and post some.
Thanks again,
Mat

[Brithunter]

Hi Mat,

    Thanks for the offer but it's not necessary as I will one day no doubt aquire one.

    In fact I may even try doing a little official trading in them and other classic Stalking rifles and optics next year once I get the workshop sorted but this requires more legal hoops so will take a little while to get sorted out. Probably go to the lower end auctions with a dealer friend and pick up some reasonable cost  ones then carefully check them over and test them. And finally advertise them at a small profit. Nothing major but hopefully it will suppliment my meagre income and allow me to be at hand at home should I be needed like last week when Mother fell in the garden and could not get up. Which of course in the reason I  moved up here last year but I thought I would have least been able to get a Part time job, however this has not prooved to be the case.

[cowboy]

Hello all,
 
Here are a few photos of a work in progress. It's a 1968 PH 1200 Super.
This is the darkest stock of all the PHs I have. The second darkest is my 1971 1200P.
 
In these photos I am at the point of having the bedding completly done, the stock shortened 3/8" and decelerator pad installed. It still has the factory gloss finish from PH.
 
If you look closely you can see where I have sanded the finish off around the recoil cross bolt as I had to work on the wood around it. In the last photo you can see the bedding and what you won't see is the recoil cross bolt.
 
I replace the original bolt with a regular threaded bolt with the head removed and I just use the 2 "donuts" that are on the ends of the original cross bolt after I polish and reblue them. I then bed the whole thing into the bedding epoxy. I do this so I can lengthen the width to bring the 2 "donuts" out to be more flush with the stock on the outside. It just looks better to me. I also think that it makes the bedding stronger and more consistant as there is now a thicker portion of epoxy over where the top of the original cross bolt used to be.
 
You can also see where I have filled in and squared off the section of stock between the trigger cut out and the magazine cut out. The PH magazine/trigger guard does not have the original military 98 floor plate release, but the stocks are releaved for them. This also adds stength to this area as this is where the stock can sometimes split. This is also where they add a second recoil cross bolt on the big bores for that reason.
 
There you have it. It does take some time but I enjoy the work and the payoff in the end!
 

 
Cowboy

[Brithunter]

Hi Cowboy,

    Why shorten the wood when a thinner recoil pad could be used? then you can always put the original pad back on and have the rifle in it's original configuration . Sorry but I don't understand why you take out the recoil bolt and use a std bolt  the recoil bolt is shaped to take the action and lug and it's top suface sets the height of the action in the stock .

   The stock on my 1200V is a might long with the std thick pad so I have got a thinner pad for it which is waiting to be shaped to fit. As I do not have the required tools to fit it as I would like I will get a local skilled gunsmith to do so for me. It will have to wait for a few weeks as he is really busy sorting out game shooters shotguns for the upcoming Pheasent season.

    And yes P-H did use two recoil bolts on the 1100M African Magnum, could not remember for sure so went and looked :o :D  but I do recall they also added a recoil lug to the barrel and that is glass bedded and there is a screw in the bottom of the fore arm. My rifle has a chequered panel under the fore arm which I had added for a sure grip. My local gunsmith were I brought the rifle from did the panel by hand for me so this rifle is no longer standard :o .

[cowboy]

Hello Brithunter,
 
Well, let's see if I can answer your qustions. I'm not much of a writer so I am just going to type it out and see what comes out. Recoil pad, I like 1" thick pads because they are comfortable to shoot. :) I had to remove the wood to have a 1 inch pad and shorten the LOP at the same time.
 
I have not actually seen a PH with a second recoil lug/bolt so I don't know where they put them. I have seen other manufacturers all put them where I reinforce the stock. I know that on the really large loudenboomer magnums that they put a second recoil lug on the barrel, don't they?
 
I take the original recoil bolt out for 2 reasons. The first is just cosmetic. In the photo of the 1200 below, which by the way is not one of mine. I swiped the photo off of the internet. You can see clearly that the threaded "donut" at the end of the recoil bolt itself is quite recessed into the side of the stock. By using a threaded rod instead of the original recoil bolt, I can adjust the width of the entire assembly to the width of the stock and bring it flush or almost flush with the sides. I just think it looks nicer.
 
On this particular 1200, PH used an original military cross bolt which only has 1 "donut" on one end, the other being just a bolt head. This is the only one like this that I have seen as all the other 1200s used a cross bolt with a "donut" on each end.
 
The second reason is that the only proper way to epoxy bed with the original cross bolt is remove some wood behind and below the cross bolt so that it can be encased on at least 2 sides to fully bed and support the cross bolt itself. I would rather not remove too much wood in this area as it already is pretty thin. The flat of the metal cross bolt would never really mate up to the metal flat of the action any way as the only way 2 pieces of metal match up to each other is to have them paralel ground. So the action is really bedded on the epoxy any way.
 
I use 3 types of epoxy when I bed a PH. Acraglas original which is very thin and runny, acraglas gel which is thick and pro-bed 2000 which is in between. The actual bed is pro-bed 2000.
 
I use the gel because it is soft even when dry and can be easily removed. The runny kind gets to coat the areas that aren't acully bedded to seal the inside of the stock. I paint it on with a brush. I use pro-bed 2000 for the actual bedding. Brownells.
 
If we take a stock and label the forend tip in the barrel channel as A and under the recoil lug as B and under the end of the magazine box, just forward of the tang as C.
 
Setting the height of the action in the stock to match original.
 
Step 1, sand out the rise in the barrel channel at A that sets the forend upward pressure on the barrel until just a thin strip of paper will slide under the barrel completly. At this point the action is only making contact at B and C with the barrel fully free floating.
 
Step 2, put a small pad of bedding with the gel at A to index the barrel with no forend pressure at all. At this point the action is sitting evenly at A,B and C with no pressure.
 
Step 3, again putting only small pads of gel at C on both sides of the stock to index the action from tipping either way. At this point the action is sitting at all 3 points with no pressure but C has 2 pads left and right to keep the action from tipping.
 
Step 4, remove wood under recoil lug area at B to acomadate epoxy to at least 1/8" so its not too thin under the recoil lug area. At this point the action is sitting on just A and C with no pressure. Bed recoil lug area B with Pro-bed 2000 or your choice. I tape the front and sides of the recoil lug so that only the back of the lug is bare.
 
Step 5, remove index pads of gel at C and remove wood to bed C. Bed C with pro-bed.
 
Step 6, remove index pads at A. At this point the action is bedded at B and C at its original height with no pressure or stress and the barrel is again free floating.
 
Step 6, optional, insert shims under barrel at A and using a trigger pull gauge adjust thickness of shims to pull out when trigger pull gayge reads 5# or your choice. Bed with pro-bed at A with shims in place.
 
Aghh! Done........
 
I know that some of what I said was as clear as mud, I'm trying to hurry as I have an appointment, so feel free to ask what the heck I was saying.
 

 
Cowboy

[sakorick]

My Super is a darn nice rifle but pales into insignificance when compared to the Sakos of the same era. I have been working on a Super stock for so long that it makes me ill. The PH's were good and they were also very bad.....I don't know where they got their Walnut but it's clearly inferior in the durability department. Still dollar for dollar a nice piece of hardware. Regards, Rick.

[cowboy]

Hi Sakorick and all,
 
Actually I would agree with you on almost all of it. The PHs they sent here where never a high end gun. But like you said, dollar for dollar they are great.
 
I happen to be a big Model 98 fan which endears me to them. But mausers purists will sometimes look down on the Santa Barbaras as not being as good as say an FN 98.
 
Having owned and handled quite a few PHs I must say that one has to look at each one as an individual piece. I have seen some that I wouldn't buy that the fit and finish were really bad. If the action dosn't cycle smoothly or has a hang up no way. I did buy one that was like this, Once. The other thing that you see is discoloration on the bolt, especially the handle. I had to blue the handle on that one as it would not polish out. And it took a lot of hand filing and polishing to smooth up the action and then it needed to be reblued.
 
I'm pretty choosy now about which ones I'm willing to put the work into. I also never buy one that is not original as I hate to try to fix someone elses mistakes.
 
However having said all that.....
 
It's a model 98 and I really like them. Parker hale barrels are great. Properly bedded they shoot extremely well. I have some that shoot sub MOA. The stock configuration just happens to fit me just right when I shorten the LOP a little which really makes all the differance to me in felt recoil. I also really like the palm swell as it does work to fill your hand. With the aluminum trigger guard/magazine they are lighter which makes carrying them on the hunt easier.
 
It is a lot of work to restore a PH, sometimes. I tend to work in spurts so that I don't get burned out. They are more than worth it in the end.
 
I'm actually glad they aren't more popular because the prices would rise and I wouldn't have as good a selection to buy at reasonable prices. :D
 
Best of luck on finishing yours Sakorick. I think you will like it better when it's done.
 
Cowboy

[sakorick]

Speaking of Mod98 actions, I rate the Oberndorf's as tops. I have never handled one that wasn't like glass. I have no preference with the FN vs Santa Barbra, however, I would give the nod to the older Zastavas over these two. I also like the La Coronas and 1943 and earlier K98's. The Lowe small ring actions made in Berlin were especially nice in the 95's.....many of these went to South America. I have a Turk large ring that is good too.
 
Now, having reread this mumbo jumbo, I guess I like them all!:D Regards, Rick. OBTW, my Mod98 Preduzece is as smooth as the Oberndorfs!:D :D :D
 
Sidebar....Has anyone touched a new Remington 798?????

[Brithunter]

Hi Guys,

   Well P-H quality varied a couple of times during their history, usually during take overs  before Modular industries under the Bremmner banner owned them it was an investment house. Well you can guess .

    Their stocks came from SILE in italy .

  Oh Rick the Turks are Obendorfs as Mauser completed the whole order despite the fact that Lowe was supposed to help make them and got their share of the payment but actually made none of them . For real high end rifles P-H sent them to Rigby's to be finished . I have seen a couple and was told where one was for sale for reasonable money but of course I was flat broke :o  Oh well perhaps another time.

[sakorick]

Hi Guys,

Well P-H quality varied a couple of times during their history, usually during take overs before Modular industries under the Bremmner banner owned them it was an investment house. Well you can guess .

Their stocks came from SILE in italy .

Oh Rick the Turks are Obendorfs as Mauser completed the whole order despite the fact that Lowe was supposed to help make them and got their share of the payment but actually made none of them . For real high end rifles P-H sent them to Rigby's to be finished . I have seen a couple and was told where one was for sale for reasonable money but of course I was flat broke :o Oh well perhaps another time.

Very interesting.....I wonder why the Turks are considered inferior???? If they are indeed Oberndorfs, thet should be the most desireable IMHO. I just love the Oberndorf mark on a Mauser action. The PH's are terrific......but methinks they altered some things! More later and regards, Rick.

[Brithunter]

Hi Rick,

    May I suggest you do yourslf a favor and hunt down this book :-

"Original Obendorf Sporting Rifles"

 Authors Speed, Schmid and Hermann. Published by Collector grade Publications.

ISBN 0-88935-230-5.

  OK it's not cheap but the information about Mauser, the brothers Paul & Wilhelm and the history of the factory including how Lowe got control. Just how badly Mauser was treated by the German (Prussian biased) governmet are real eye openers .

   I traces the history of the Turkish contract and has some very good archive photos from this era including prints from original Mauser drawings and spec sheets .

   I brought the book several years ago after I aquired what was supposed to be an Original Mauser sporter, turns out is was a sporterised mauser but we could not trace the make so it was later sold  whilst a very nice rifle it was not what I wanted. Oh it was in .375 2 1/4" RNE (9.5x57mm) and had a Khales scope in claw mounts on it.

  Did you know that mauser built an entire building to house the Turkish inspection and acceptance team? which they called the Turkbau. They also built another building to make the first shipment of the Swedish Mauser called the Swedebau if memory serves me correctly. These trial runs were the only other production apart for the turkish contract that mauser did all other orders were made by Lowe and Spandau.

[ms96tears]

Hello; I just wanted to share a few photos of a rifle that I obtained from my father a few years ago. I am not sure what year or model it is. The markings on the barrel are....Parker Hale, Birmingham England.....Imported  Jana, Denver Col. and the caliber is 25-06. It has a serial number beginning with R-. and two different markings with BNP under a crown. The action is a little loose and the safety doesn't work, but it has a very tight group at 100 meters or so. If anyone can give me a good guess as to how old it is and the model type, I would appriciate it greatly.

[gitano]

how old it is and the model type,

Brithunter can probably help you there. I just wanted to point out that many Mauser actions appear "loose" with the bolt open. It's neither a sign of wear or weakness.
 
Paul