gun shy lab.... what do i do? any training tips?

[gunbroker90]

hello everyone,
 i just got a chocolate lab the other day. i want to train him for hunting but have never done so before. i wanted to know if he was gun shy so i stepped on my back patio and fired a 12ga in to the air. it scared him pretty good. any tips on breaking him of that? now everyone keep in mind that this dog is about 1 1/2 year old.....not a pup any more. any other tips would be greatly appreciated. thanks for your time.
 -adam

[English]

Adam, welcome to the world of hunting dogs.  You didn't mention how old he was but I'm going to assume he's a young pup.  If so, so much the better.  First of all for the first month or two I'd just make him your pal.  It really does take some dogs a few weeks to bond with a new master to the poing of trusting you.  During this time I would work on basic obedience.  Come, sit, no, fetch type of things.  Also condition him to loud noises.  NO GUNS RIGHT NOW!  I don't mean to sound harsh but a young pup in a new surrounding, getting shot over with a 12 guage is BAD.  Now that that's settled here's what you need to do.  Take two pieces of 2X4 approximately 18 inches long.  Drill a hole in the end of both of them approximately an inch from the end in the center.  Run a short cord through the holes and tie it off.  YOu are basically making a noise maker.  Now when the pup is hungry give him his food but as you do have somebody standing off a good ways bang the two boards together lightly.  You'll have to guage the how the pup takes this by watching him.  If he shows fear pet him up and give him as much encouragement and comfort as he needs to get him over this.  If the fear is too great move the guy with the "clapper" even farther away.  As the pup begins to get used to it move it closer and gradually increase the volume of the "clap" until it is as loud as you can smack them together.  When the pup tolerates this by continuing to eat and not flinching move up to a gun.  Again start with the food and a partner.  Your partner needs to stand off say 75-100 yards with a .22 rimfire and you repeat the procedure over until you can shoot the .22 right next to him.  IF and when the .22 doesn't phase him move up to a .410 if you have access to one and then up to a 12.  Remember this could take several weeks to condition him depending on how scared he was.  Maybe could go quicker but take your time and do it right.  Make sure the pup bonds with you a few weeks before you start this.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Mike

[gunbroker90]

Thanks mike... i said he was about 1 1/2 year old... is that a problem? i hope not. i will try what you said and hopefully it will work. now, about what you said about bonding.... i just got him monday and i went to the property where i do all of my playing (hunting, mudding, fishin, shootin, etc.) the other day and was playing fetch. i would have done this in my yard but all my neighbors have dogs and my dog gets really excited around them and wants to play with them so i took him out so that it was just me and him and no distractions. he was retreiving perfectly. the landowner who is a goood friend of mine drove up. he was just checking on his cows and i told him that i was getting a dog. he stopped to look at it and when he drove off i had to hold my dog down. he loves trucks. once the truck was out of sight i went to throw the ball. the dog went to it, picked it up and began goin the direction of the truck. i could not get him to stop for nothing. i chased him about 500 yards before i caught up. i was so scared that he was goin to go into the cottom field and i would have lost him there. i think he does not trust me enough. i am doin all i can... like you said. it takes time. you seem to know what you are talkin about. got any tips on training him? i would like to hear from anyone. thanks again and safe hunting.

[English]

Can't really help you on the bird training part as I've never done that.  First though is to continue with the bonding stuff.  I think it takes longer for an older dog to bond with you sometimes than a puppy.  Turning a dog loose is always tough.  Everytime you turn him loose it is a gamble to some extent.  If you hunt with dogs you have to understand that sooner or later you could lose one.  Cars, traps, angry hunters etc.  Just work on the obedience in the yard for awhile and train him to come to a whistle.  Trust me its a lot easier to blow a whistle than yell for him.
 
Mike

[crowkiller]

Take the dog walking near a shooting range a couple of times when nobody is using it,
then take the dog walking when some body shoots at the range. Start at a sufficient distance. This worked for a pal of mine, hope it works for your lab.

[gitano]

If you can find them, a fellow named Wolters wrote some excellent books on training dogs. He's written several, but the one I used is "Water Dog". I think you'll find it/them very useful.
 
Training a puppy to hunt is a daunting task - especially bird hunt. Training an 18-month old to hunt, especially one you did not raise, is an even greater challenge. You've got your work cut out for you. I don't want to discourage you - quite the contrary, but the task before you is no small one.
 
Mike and Crowkiller's suggestions are execellent wrt training to gunfire. I would add this: Consider the dog's point of view whenever possible. I mean REALLY consider the dog's point of view. Too many people consider the hunter/hunting dog relationship as one of master and slave. Those are the ones that are screaming at their dogs out on the duck flats or in the coverts. If you're going to be a hunting team, you really have to put your mind in the team framework as you start your training. Let me use your gunshot example.
 
Imagine that you had never seen a gun before in your life, and in fact had no concept of what they were. You had just moved from your childhood home to a new neighborhood. One of your new acquaintances (not even a friend yet), invited you over to his house. Before he asked you to go hunitng with him, he decided to test you to see if you were OK with firearms. The test consisted of sneaking up behind you and firing a 12 gauge. I'm sure you see the point. Before you employ a specific training technique, do your best to really consider what you are about to do from the dog's perspective.
 
Good luck, and stay tuned in. I'm sure Mike and others will be able to help you a lot.
 
Paul

[Jay Edward (deceased)]

What I did:

First and formost... I continually played hide and seek with my dog.  I would make him sit and then I would back off slowly until I was near the edge of the house... then I would take off at a dead run.  I would plan my hiding place on the other side of the house and he would come screaming around the house trying to find me.  Most times he would be past the place I'd selected before he could apply the brakes.  I would take off in the other direction.  It got so that he didn't want to let me out of his sight when he wasn't retrieving.

Next... I took a cap & ball revolver and a tin of 100 caps.  I tied him to a tree and walked about 50 yards away.  I pointed the revolver in the other direction and popped off a cap when I was sure he was watching.  I then walked back over and gave him a part of one of those doggie treats he really seemed to like.  I walked back out to 50 yards and repeated the process.  After 3 shots I moved a couple of steps closer and started all over again.  It took most of the afternoon and all of the caps but he was salivating everytime I popped a cap.

Next... I put him in the back  of the truck and went out to the trap range.  I left him in the back while I shot trap.  He was frantic to get out and I gave him a treat when I got back to the truck.

I made all my own training dummies save one... the thrower that uses a blank cartridge.  I trapped a live duck and threw him in with the chickens and put a dead duck in the freezer.  I trained him on the dead duck first and then the live duck since sometimes they come back that way.  I simply tied the ducks wings so he couldn't fly off but he could still bite the dog.  Rocket learned all about protecting your ears.

By-the-way... I learned not to let old Rocket out at the trap range.  He'd take off down range at the shot and retrieve the unbroken clay pigeons.  It would hold up the shooting (which was bad enough) and forcibly remind me that I'd missed... which was all to frequent to be comfortable.

I trained Rocket 3 times a day... every day for a couple of years.  He answered to voice, whistle and hand commands.  He even got to the point of doing tripple blind retrieves.  I was always proud to show him off to my hunting friends since most of them had had bad experiences with improperly trained bird dogs.  Rocket was a gentleman and would even retrieve Grouse... though he hated it.  He'd patiently bring it back, wait until you took if from him and then, looking you steadily in the eye, spit out those fine feathers.  I'm glad he never learned to cuss.

When Rocket got older I listened to Wolters and switched him to 'flushing' on dry land.  I couldn't stand him going out into the frigid water anymore... not that he balked... it's just that I didn't like it.  I used a 30 yard leash on him until he got the idea.  He figured it out faster than I would have and became an irreplaceable part of my Upland hunting.  Huns, Chukkars, Grouse... he just did it.  I've never got another dog... I still miss Rocket too much.

Here's a favorite photo of my buddy waiting for the 'launcher' to shoot the bird out:

[Dragonfly]

Great advice Jay.  When we were raising hunting dogs by the time they were ready to leave Moma they were gun trained.
It was my job to train them to gun shots.  I'd start off with a small rifle/pistol like a pellet gun.  very little noise.  Once they were just playing around and I was shooting the pellet gun and they paid no attention to the sound, I went to a bigger weapon.  A .22 was good rifle or pistol.  Each time they adjusted to the sound of one weapon I went up in sound.  Soon I could shoot anything around them and they never reacted.

[buckshot roberts]

Good advice, I'll try that with jake, he will hunt, but when I shoot, man thats it for him, gone home.

[gunbroker90]

your dog jake, does the exact same thing as my dog hunter.... he love to hunt and chases small game which is good but not if there is a gun. if he sees a gun he won't even listen to me and tuck his tail between his legs and head for cover. that sounds like good advice. i will keep it mind. thanks and good luck.

-gunbroker90

[Dragonfly]

I trained my mule to gun shots the same way and it worked great.  I wanted to be able to sit on his back and shoot.  And I can and I do.  Whether I'm planning on hunting or not,  I keep him in practice.  I sit on him and target shoot.

I even went to muzzle loader with him.  Now when he sees me coming with a weapon no matter what kind he is ready to go.  He knows we are going hunting and he loves it!!!

I don't shoot a muzzle loader and haven't shot one in years but my grandson has a new muzzle loader and he and the buckster prowl our grounds just practicing.
The buckster never even flinches.  And my grandson is sitting astride.


Ain't mules great????