AR Build - Moved from Biopar Site

[gitano]

From drinksgin

If I remember correctly, T 7075 has a tensile strength higher than cold rolled steel, an action of it might do nicely with 30,000 psi or less loads.
I still have thoughts about my own super simple ss action[in light of my super simple design skills],
May have to spend some time sketching.
Now, continue on Jeeves, ur, Gitano.
nra, tsra, goa, 2nd amm. jpfo, def con.

[gitano]

I got the lower parts kit this afternoon, and if I didn't need to 'fix' the buggered trigger hole, I would have a complete lower assembled. The trigger and hammer are ever-so-slightly wider than the cavity (0.681" for the parts, 0.671 for the receiver), which is "good". When I fix the trigger hole, I'll mill out the extra 0.010".

Speaking of the trigger hole, the trigger blade is too wide for the existing trigger hole. That too is "good". When I "fix" it, it will only be slightly larger than the trigger. Cosmetically, and psychologically, the "fix" will be a real fix, not just a 'cover-up'. I'm smiling again.

I am impressed with both the parts kit and the receiver. Both are well-made and surprisingly "standard". Like I said, I'm smiling again.

More pictures tomorrow.

Paul

PS - I have also been looking for magazines. Not too happy that there aren't any 5-rounders "in stock", and even more unhappy about the prices. However, I went into Sportsman's Warehouse to find some cheap .223 ammo to shoot and lo and behold they had some really cheap magazines. (No 5-rounders though. :frown ) I bought two boxes of the cheapest ammo ($8.99/20) and a $4.99 20-round plastic clip. It works great in the receiver. Don't know how long it will last, but I won't be as hard on it as some AR-15 shooters are, so maybe it will last longer than it's $4.99 price suggests. Regardless, it will be good - and cheap - for proofing the rifle. Still smiling.

Paul

[gitano]

From j0e_bl0ggs

slowly slowly catchee monkey...

[gitano]

From j0e_bl0ggs

Nice pic of the snow on THL when you went to collect the parts... BH would have a 'connery' (English humour)

[gitano]

The DPMS 'kit' is good. Had the receiver not needed 'fixing', I'd have an even bigger grin on my face. Was really happy to find the cheap magazines. Not great being plastic, but will last for a while 'til I work out the kinks.

The other barrel was also in the package. Nice barrel with gas block. It's a "rifle" length gas port location, but I don't really care for the .223 barrel. That barrel won't likely be shooting subsonic ammo.

Speaking of ammo, holy mackeral "hunting" .223 ammo is stupid expensive up here. $35 for 20 of Hornady, Remington, Winchester and whatever the others were. The absolute cheapest I saw for "hunting" ammo was $24/20 and that was some 35-grain stuff. I was happy to find the Federal 55-grain FMJ stuff for "only" $8.99/20.

Tomorrow, I'll finish the milling on the receiver, fixing the trigger hole and widening the cavity by 10 thou. Then I'll just have to sit around and wait for the upper to arrive. No notice of arrival from Midway today.

Paul

PS - Midway still says date of arrival of upper 2/24/12. So at least they haven't pushed it out later - yet...

Paul

[gitano]

From j0e_bl0ggs

Frikking A-Diddybags! as one is wont to say... (well not quite right)


You may want to take a few for your 'wild dog' hunting....

That 'dogtown' bullet is really quite superb.

[gitano]

From drinksgin

Looking good!
I was thinking, oh,oh, why are there a bunch of wildcats for sub sonic use?
.25-20, .32-20, .357 mag. and max. .30 carbine are available and I think would propel a heavy for caliber bullet at 1200fps.
Chambering and twist rates would seem to be the major holdups.
I worked up the 8x41R just to have something for the barrel Gitano sent me .
I still want a .32-20 just because it was the first cartridge I helped reload and cast the bullets for.
A .32-20 in usable shape is very high now.
I still remember seeing the barrels in the hardware stores and gun shops, $15 for .25 and .32 rfs, $25 for .25-20, .32-20, .25 rem. , .30 rem. ss, pump and self loaders, oh me.
I am thinking of getting a GM AK , .312" barrel, fitting it to a Handi action or making my own ssss, [super simple single shot], action and chambering it for .32-20, now just to get enough energy to start. :D
nra, tsra, goa, 2nd amm. jpfo, def con.

[gitano]

I am reminded of an old saw: "I've only been wrong once in my life, and that's when I thought I was wrong and I was really right."

First - It was impossible to measure the depth of the FCC without moving the workpiece completely out from under the quill. Furthermore, the distance between the top of the "Master Plate" and the top of the receiver was not uniform from one end to the other. In other words, the mounted Master Plate was not parallel to the top of the receiver. The measurements taken in the shop were taken with the workpiece mounted, and were confounded by the jig. (I shoulda known or at least suspected that.) The difference between the height of the master plate relative to the top of the receiver was 0.015" from left to right. Since I had leveled the workpiece/jig, I incorrectly assumed that the top of the jig was parallel to the top of the receiver. The short story is that the floor of the receiver was out of level by 0.015" and one end was "right on" at 1.250" and the other was too shallow by 0.008". It's level at 1.250" now.

Second - When I re-installed the lower parts after leveling the floor of the FCC, the "disconnect" problem did not go away. The only conclusion I could draw was that the parts weren't right. I was pretty steamed, actually. I fussed around for a bit trying to figure out how to determine for certain that the disconnect was actually mis-shapen. At the time I bought the AR-15 parts kit from Midway, I also bought a lower parts kit for the AR-10 receiver. It occurred to me - although I wasn't certain of it - that the "guts" of the AR-10 should be the same as those of the AR-15 because the FCC dimensions were the same. So I opened the AR-10 kit and visually compared the pieces. They looked the same. After measuring them in a few places, they measured the "same" - within tolerances. So I removed the AR-15 trigger/hammer group and replaced it with the AR-10 group. The new pieces worked properly. "OK", I say to myself. "That means the AR-15 trigger/hammer group is in fact wrong." Now I can confidently call Midway and discuss getting replacement pieces. I went on and installed the rest of the parts kit.

Third - I've been using a video I downloaded from the internet for the assembly instructions of the lower parts kit. The fellow doing the instruction had been doing a good job, and I had followed his instructions "to the letter". However, when I finished, I had an extra part. I hate it when that happens.[blink]  It was a little spring. I couldn't for the life of me figure out where this spring might go. However, it seemed at least possible that it might be associated with the disconnect malfunction. No word of a spring associated with the disconnect in the video, but there was an "exploded" view of the parts on the back of the cardboard advertising that came with the parts kit and an associated parts description list. I looked for the word "spring" and accounted for all of them I had installed EXCEPT THE DISCONNECT SPRING!  Grrr.... Looking closely at the disconnect, I could see where a spring might go, and looking at the rear of the slot in the trigger where the disconnect rested, there was a 'cutout' that the spring fit right in and the location of the cutout corresponded to the location of the cutout on the disconnect. I disassemble the trigger/hammer group AGAIN. I re-installed the AR-15 parts WITH THE SPRING, and voila', it worked like it was supposed to. Imaging that. First emotion was :D , then

As a footnote, I had to return to my shop an make a tool that would allow me to hold all the pieces in place at once as I installed the trigger/disconnect assembly.

Anyway, all's well that ends well I suppose. The good news is that I have a receiver that I completed, and while the finally-finished milling doesn't quite look like it was done with a CNC machine, I am quite pleased with the finish and the dimensions and wouldn't hesitate to show it to any machinist for fear of being ridiculed. Of course it took me a total of 7 hours to do.

I repeat that when one starts from 'zero', there's no place to go but 'up', and consequently I have learned a great deal through this exercise, and since I was working 'in the dark' for the most part, I'm OK with way things turned out. That's not to minimize quality of the jigs from TM. rather it's just a matter of being "alone" as I both machined the receiver and as I assembled the pieces of the parts kit. "Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey" as J0e_bl0ggs is wont to say.

I think I mentioned that I had "back-ordered" a complete upper from Midway. Their initial comments said it would be in to them on 2-26-12. They're pretty good about getting back-orders right out the door, so I expected it at my place about a week later, meaning this coming Saturday at the latest. Of course, on Tuesday they "amended" the arrival date to 3-24-12. :-s I'm not interested in waiting another month to get this thing put together. So, I called them up, cancelled the back-order, and ordered an upper that was in stock and ready to ship. I expect it in my hands either tomorrow or Saturday. Here's hoping. If I get it by Saturday, I COULD be shooting that same day. I emphasize "could", because I am beginning to realize that all is not as it is represented with these "kits". Again, that's not complaint. I am tickled to death to be able to complete fabrication and assemble an AR rifle. It is not at all unusual that "the devil is in the details" with a project like this. I still think it's 'the best thing since sliced bread".

Oh yeah. The trigger is really not good. Lot's of uneven creep and a final let-off that has to be at least 10lb. I suppose I will be replacing the DPMS kit trigger with a "real" one. I'll have a look as some videos of "trigger jobs" and see if I think it is worth it to work on it. I'm quite adept at removal and installation...

Thanks,
Paul

[gitano]

From DavidLT89

Geesh!!!!! i gotta check in more often. last time I was here you hadn't started anything yet!!!! Now your almost done!!!! very interesting I might ad!! I am curious as to how it performs!!! also, you mentioned you wanted some five round magazines but the "price" was disappointing, if you don't mind me asking, how much are 5 round magazines going for? Maybe I can get it cheaper for ya! keep up the good work. God bless.

[gitano]

Here's the cheapest 5-round plastic one and it's not in stock. http://www.midwayusa.com...n-5-round-polymer-black

Here's a steel 5-rounder not in stock.http://www.midwayusa.com/product/593609/ar-stoner-magazine-ar-15-223-remington-5-round-with-anti-tilt-follower-stainless-steel-black

Here's another steel one - not in stock. http://www.midwayusa.com...gton-5-round-steel-blue

Here's a steel "flush fit" - not in stock. http://www.midwayusa.com...nd-flush-fit-steel-blue

Here's a steel/plastic hybrid - IN STOCK. http://www.midwayusa.com...gton-5-round-steel-blue

Here's another steel one - out of stock. http://www.midwayusa.com...r-stainless-steel-black

Here's a plastic one that is probably a 30-round magazine with a block in it to make it hold no more than 5. http://www.midwayusa.com...mington-5-round-polymer

Her's a plastic one - out of stock. http://www.midwayusa.com...n-5-round-polymer-smoke

Here's a steel one for $45 and it's still out of stock. http://www.midwayusa.com...ton-5-round-steel-black

Notice a "trend"? None in stock. By all means check it out and if you can find me some 5-round magazines for $20 or less, let me know. Now compare the prices of the 5-rounders to the 10 to 30 rounders.Angry

As for "checking in", you can go to the top of the page, click on the "Options" link, select "watch", and you will be notified of any new posts.

Paul

[gitano]

From Jorge in Oz

David wrote:
Geesh!!!!! i gotta check in more often. last time I was here you hadn't started anything yet!!!! Now your almost done!!!! very interesting I might ad!! I am curious as to how it performs!!! also, you mentioned you wanted some five round magazines but the "price" was disappointing, if you don't mind me asking, how much are 5 round magazines going for? Maybe I can get it cheaper for ya! keep up the good work. God bless.

I'll second that David. Last time I check there were photos of the parts purchased. SoonPaul will be shooting his AR. Fascinating stuff Paul keep up the good work. As 22 Hornet said we can't mess with stuff like that Down Under so its most fascinating.

Cheers

Jorge

P.S. on watch now. Thanks Paul.
“The Germans brought the best hunting rifle to the war. The Americans brought the best target rifle. The British brought the best battle rifle!”



"Law and order break down as a direct result of placing political correctness above equity and truth" Mark Jenkins

[gitano]

From DavidLT89

I did not know about the "watch" option, I have tagged it!!! as for the magazines, the wholesaler has bushmaster mags, I am assuming they are steel, for around 25.00. BUT, there is nary one in stock there also. I will keep my eyes open, it may come down to who can actually get one in stock!!!!! God Bless.

[gitano]

To our friends in Canada, Great Britain, and Australia; you have my sincerest sympathies. I know at least some of you that would love to be allowed to do something like this. You can imagine how significant I feel this is, given that it took something like this, (finish your own receiver), to get me to consider 'playing' with a semi-auto rifle. Especially one that is essentially a clone of a military firearm.

That said, from a cost perspective, "building" one's own firearm instead of purchasing it over-the-counter (OTC)is very conceptually similar to reloading relative to buying OTC "factory" ammunition. Specifically, reloaders rarely actually reduce the total amount of money they spend on their "hobby", BUT - and it is a BIG BUT - they 1) get what they WANT, not what some manufacturer thinks they should have, 2) make more of it for the same price, and 3) 'personalize' it. (Just to name some of the BIG "pros" of reloading.) BUT... reducing the total amount of money spent is not 'reality'. I could have purchased a "stock" AR-15 in .223 Rem/5.56 NATO for $650 and been shooting three weeks ago. While I haven't yet 'tallied the score' on this project, I can assure you that I very quickly exceeded that $650 figure.

The 80% receiver kit was $425 alone and the upper was $400. (It should be kept in mind that the majority of the cost of the receiver kit - about $275 - was for the jigs, AND I got TWO receivers - one AR-15, and one AR-10). So that $825 isn't exactly "apples to apples" with the $650 OTC purchase of a ready-to-shoot firearm. Plus there have already been "Butt kits" "receiver parts kits", another NEW barrel, and I haven't even started getting the pieces for the custom piece for the custom upper. Most important for me to keep in mind as I consider the costs, is what my ORIGINAL goal was - a legally suppressed firearm in a cartridge of MY choosing. Right now, THOSE kinds of AR-type firearms - a legally suppressed firearm in a custom chambering - cost anywhere from $3000 to $5000 "over-the-counter".

Also, what was actually the utmost importance to me was the act of making (in truth "finishing") my own receiver. THAT really makes this firearm MINE. I LIKE THAT. I must be honest and say that I look(ed) forward more to the "work" involved in this project that I do shooting it. AND... anticipation of making the unique 8mm barrel, cartridge, and suppressor, greatly exceeds the anticipation of shooting it. That's not to say I don't look forward to shooting it and expect it to put a big grin on my face, but the "building" of it is really what keeps the fire burning.

Today is about like Christmas Eve: The upper MIGHT be here at the post office today. If so, there is a very real possibility I will be 'proofing' the build this evening. :D

Paul

[gitano]

No "Christmas" today. :cry:

Maybe tomorrow.

Paul

[gitano]

From 22hornet

Great progress Paul. How many hours of work have you invested in this project to date?
I take it with the machining jigs and all it's a project the average bloke could take on?

And what is the "watch" function?