rockinbbar - "Range Reports" with Air

[gitano]

Barry - I don't recall seeing any targets you have shot with your big bore pellet rifles. If you have posted some, please list their urls. If not, how about some?

I am wrestling with all of the red tape to get my suppressor permissions as well as the REALLY long time it takes to get it completed by the federales. As that frustration grows, the significance of the cost of PCP airguns lessens. I would like to see some targets from someone whom I trust to tell the truth and doesn't need their ego stroked and isn't trying to sell me something. That'd be you. :)

Paul

[rockinbbar]

Lemme see Paul....

I have some here somewhere.

Here's a decent group I shot at 100 yards shot with the Benjamin Rogue .357.



The rifle shoots a plethora of different bullets. Most are cast bullets, but I shoot a hybrid bullet made by Nosler. It's a 145gr. Ballistic Tip.



The shooting was done off a concrete bench, so it was pretty stable as a shooting platform.



The optics mounted are a CenterPoint 3-12x44 with the MilDot reticle.

In all honesty, I wasn't shooting for "groups" with the shooting session.
The Rogue has different power settings, and I was experimenting with the MilDots to see which dots were applicable at 100 yards when sighted in at 50 yards at 1" high. So, the groups you see is off the MilDot that I found to be close at 100 yards, and not the center crosshair. I can see the groups tighten when actually sighted at 100 yards.

Shortly after the sighting session, I got this coyote, so I reckoned it "works" as a hunting rifle.



Now for some stuff that may be of interest to you and others... :)

In all actuality, the rifle shoots about like a 38 Special revolver as far as power, and the mindset you need to have when using the rifle. By mindset, I mean performance and safety. If you bear in mind that you need to be aware that shot placement and allowing for how far the bullet will be dangerous, then you are spot on when figuring the usage of the rifle.

I do know that if you are looking for "quiet", then it will probably surpass your expectations.

The reason it's so quiet is that the barrel is shrouded with an integrated silencer system. The shroud is integrated and made by Crosman Corp. The barrel itself is a high quality, high carbon steel, and is produced by Green Mountain barrels for Crosman. The barrel screws in at the receiver, and has a knurled end so it can be unscrewed. The end also results in a recessed crown, so that nothing can come into contact with the crown in any way.

How loud is it? Practically speaking, on the "High" setting, if you are beside the muzzle, and a distance of 3-4 feet, and perhaps slightly in front of the muzzle, it sounds about like a CB cap being fired from a rifle. If you are the shooter, or behind the muzzle, it will not be that loud.... :)
Literally, the sound of the bullet hitting the target is louder than the report of the rifle from the shooter's standpoint.

Paul, I could "see" you getting into the projectile possibilities with a rifle like this.

I have just not had the time to get into some ideas I have had with projectiles. Probably because I just have not needed to. Benjamin Hunting provides my specified ammo, so I always request they send me the Nosler bullet. If I were to run dry on those, I suspect that the first thing I would do is go buy a box of handgun bullets to see how they work. I know that the other bullets offered for the Rogue, and other guns are probably cast lead pistol bullets. I do know that the Nosler was designed around the Rogue air rifle. That is probably why it is more accurate than perhaps the other bullets offered.

Specifically, I would try a soft lead hollow base wadcutter, probably 148 gr. If the bullet tested fine, I would probably go to a solid wadcutter type cast bullet. The possibilities are endless until you get to jacketed bullets. I don't think they would work. I could see a copper plated or ny-clad bullet working though.

Please feel free to ask anything you want. I may not know the answer, but can guess, or call someone that may know the answer.... :D

~Barry

[rockinbbar]

Many of you may know of my struggle with "black guns". Years ago, when the AR-15 platform got popular for hunting and target competition, I resisted with all my might! Being a 'walnut and blue steel' type of guy, I wouldn't even consider using a rifle like an AR-15 for hunting....

But then again, I'm practical. Accuracy impresses me. So does reliability. And the added bonus of a quick follow-up shot appealed to me.

So...I tried one. That lead to another.... Now, you better come loaded for bear if you want to take my AR's away...LOL.

Much of the trouble I encountered with AR's, as far as acceptance as a serious hunting rifle, I also had with airguns.....

Here's what I mean.

ALL of my life, EVERY time I shot a firearm, the performance of the firearm was metered by muzzle blast and/or recoil. I mean, isn't that the effects we have as standards for firearms?

"It kicks like a mule, and can be heard 2 counties over, so it must be an excellent rifle for elk." Right?

Then someone put an adult, high velocity, PCP rifle in my hands. I mounted optics and set up a target in the back of my house to sight it in. (This rifle was the Benjamin Marauder in .25 cal.) I have to admit that when I sighted the rifle in, I was not impressed, and was very "let down" by what I was experiencing while shooting the rifle. NOT because it wasn't sighting in, because it WAS! It was because I felt hardly ANY measureable recoil at all. I mean like...none. And the muzzle report was about like an old Red Rider BB gun....so, they couldn't actually expect me to HUNT something bigger than a jackrabbit with this thing, could they???

Then I started playing with what the rifle could "do". I found out it could shot through about anything I wanted it to, within reason, and then started shooting at longer ranges. The accuracy amazed me. It still does. I check my zero on the rifle, and have come to expect 1/2" or better groups at 50 yards. Folks, I have .22's that won't group that well...

Penetration and performance? Yep! Got that too....

Here is a comparison of high-vel .22lr and the .25 Maurader before and after firing...



Steel 55 gal. drum...



So, I have confidence. Proof's in the pudding.

[gitano]

Thanks a bunch for all of that, Barry! It is great information! Given that you had the same opinion of "black rifles" that I did, and I came to the same conclusion you did when I built one, I am confident that I would share your opinion on PCP air rifles. There is really only one stumbling block for me with respect to a PCP rifle right now - the price for a quality one.
 
On a side note, I was trying to figure out how "they" got around the requirement for all the "approval" and "licensing" of the suppressor on these air guns. The fact that they are air guns is immaterial. A suppressor must be licensed even if you don't own a firearm of ANY sort. I believe the lack of need for licensing is due to the fact that the suppressor is INTEGRAL with the barrel AND it is on an air rifle (non-controlled firearm). The suppressor can't be taken off the air rifle and used on a firearm. At least not without considerable work. Work that the "average Joe" can't or won't do.
 
Anyway, thanks for the info. There is a good chance one of these will end up in my hands before too long.
 
Paul

[rockinbbar]

You are indeed correct on the "integrated" assumption of what keeps things legal with the suppressor system.

If the device can't be modified easily to fit what ATF considers and defines a "firearm", then it legal to own and operate. Much the same way an oil filter is legal to own and operate, as long as it's used within it intended purpose. But, when you intend to purchase the thread adapter that converts the oil filter to fit threads of firearms and use the filter as a silencer, then the adapter becomes the simple part that falls under the control of the ATF.... You have to apply for, and jump through the same hoops for what is essentially a $5 thread adapter, just like you would an actual suppressor.