Trying to understand

[oneshot]

At the risk of starting a firestorm.  I will pose this question.  What is the deal with the popularity of the Super magnums?   In the words of P.O. Ackley "The average American hunter cannot hit a flock of Circus tents at 1000yds."  I have found this to be true from personal experience, so why the attraction.  If it is more power that is desired  Why not jump from a .300 Win. mag. to a .338 win. Mag. to a .416 to a .458 to a.600 nitro etc.. Why use a .300 ultra Mag.?   The number people who can pull off  that 700yd shot under field conditions is far outstripped by the number of people who own these rifles.  

   While hunting big game I try to keep my shots under 200 yds. as I feel To be an ethical hunter I owe it to the animal a quick clean kill. If I  do blow a shot they also have less of a head start if I have to track it.   Getting back to my original question.  What is the attraction to the velocity monsters?

[drinksgin (deceased)]

Testosterone!, Or at least the perceived essence of it.
Same as buying a 500hp car to drive 20 miles at 70 mph, when not stuck in traffic at 10mph, just makes a REAL man feel good
I now go hide under a rock as the magnum lovers try to hit me at 2000 yds!

[gitano]

Marketing is a big part. Marketing to "macho".

Paul

[oneshot]

Marketing is a big part. Marketing to "macho".
 
Paul

Welll , alrighty then that explains everything.

[klallen]

the attraction to large magnum cartridges is simply the level of performance they provide the shooter. period. there's no big secret to it.
 
unfortunately, as you said, all to many times, "average" enters the picture. i agree, there's lots of "average" hunters in america. that's the sad truth of it. folks that probably shouldn't even be taking 200 yd shots, no matter the cartridge they're using. lots get taken in by marketing. lots overestimate their own set of skills because of ego or pressure from their peers. any number of reasons. but this is a people issue. not a cartridge issue. rather then critisizing high performance cartridges, or top end equipment, or the taking of longer range shots, i tend to be very critical of the acceptance of "average" by today's hunter. i don't like average. the hunters i surround myself with don't accept "average". it's to easy to be average. what's challenging is striving for more. we expect more from our cartridges, our rifles and ourselves. and above all else, appologize to noone for doing so.
 
we were out at our extended range early this morning before the breeze started to pick up, finalizing some drop charts in anticipation of our opening day of antelope season next saturday. me with a custom 7mm rum. my bro with one of his proprietary 30 cal cartridges on a-square's big magnum case in a custom rifle. after a summer of work, the closest range we worked at this session was 600 yds and reached out in excess of 1000. with all the crying about the mediocrity of today's "average" hunter, the fact remains, in the hands of fellers that strive for excellence in themselves and the equipment they choose to use, it's simply common knowledge how consistently accurate one can be at ranges that would make most blush and question their own abilities.
 
k

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

talk about blowing ones own macho trumpet....

[klallen]

oh, j b. really? everyone who competes at 1000 yd matches is doing so to be macho? really? everyone who uses top end rilfes chambered in the most ballistically sound cartridges is doing so to be macho? really? everyone who expects "more" out of themselves is doing so to be macho? really? this is truely what you think?
 
wow. you're simply clueless.
 
i guess if it's "macho" to expect more from equipment and self, then i'm guilty. and will never apologize to the likes of you for doing so. i prefer to look at it as the drive for excellence. but you label it how you need to.
 
truth is, the most critical of those who want and expect a little more out of themselves are usually those who dwell right smack dab in the middle of the mediocrity pool with the rest of the population who thinks being "average" is ok.
 
call me "macho" if it makes you feel better. criticise if it makes you feel better. i can live with that. it's a completely inaccurate assessment, but again, i'd expect nothing less. i do what i do for my satisfaction. not public acceptance. in the end, i'd much rather be labeled "macho" because i strive for excellence rather then "average" because i accept mediocrity. oneshot mentioned achley talking about the "average" american hunter. an epidemic not only here, it would appear. from the sounds of it, there's lots of "average" uk hunters, too. equally sad.
 
k

[gitano]

The "firestorm" started. The thread is closed.

Paul

[gitano]

I closed this and copied it here so that keeping it closed permanently, or even deleting it, could be discussed.

Personally, I don't see any reason to continue the 'discussion'.

Paul

[recoil junky]

Closing it was a good idea, but I really wanted to weigh in on this one as a live thread.

Kory is getting a bit hard to take. I start reading his posts and end up calling "poppeycock" No one can have as good of stuff as he can, no one.

And while jOe might have come close to crossing the line, his comment if taken with a grain of the understanding British humor was darn funny and to the point. Kory needed to be put in his place. He (Kory) did cross the line and the thread was destined to get ugly.

Beside, I shoot big magnums and have muscle cars because they are fun.

Allen

[gitano]

There's NOTHING "wrong" with "big" guns or "big" cars or "big" anything. The "wrong" part is the MARKETING, especially to youngsters and novices, based on "ego" AND then those that get them tyring to ram down everyone else's throat how "exceptional" the "big" thing (whatever it is), is. However, that's what ALL marketing is about.

The object, while just an object, is the focus of the derision because it is the manifestation of the "problem". Ego's are hard to get a hold of. "Objects" are not.

Paul

[rockinbbar]

The key word I noticed in the thread was "Ethics"...

When you start calling someone "unethical" because they shoot this, or do that, then it all becomes subjective, and emotions generally get the better of people in these type discussions.

Paul,
I agree about the marketing. The years' "***y new load, bullet, caliber, and so on and so forth"....They are nothing more than hype created by marketing specialists that never spent a day afield in their lives.

As far as the thread goes, perhaps it could be trimmed and placed back out for further discussion, but usually, that discussion goes south too.

[gitano]

I didn't get any 'hate-mail' for closing the thread, so I'm inclined to leave it closed. If anyone wants to start the discussion up again and put some 'control language' in at the front end, I'm OK with that. I'm afraid that if we open this particular thread up again, even edited, that there might be some embers still lurking, and someone might want to rekindle the fire.

Honestly, I don't see much 'discussion' on this topic. "Marketing" is marketing, and "big" things sell to a certain class of buyer. Most "big" things have at least some practical use within their designed-use specs. For those that have a need in the particular area of performance, the purchase and use of the object is appropriate. That doesn't preclude "Madison Avenue" from marketing the object to those susceptible to being influenced by "girls" or "macho" regardless of "need".

Korey isn't going to acknowledge that his 'affection' for "magnums" is anything other than practical, based on his clear assertion that he has the 'special skills' necessary for use of such weapons. He has stated that rather unambiguously. However, that wasn't the question raised in the initial post.

I just can't see a 'productive' discussion ensuing...

Paul