Lead free Shot (Non-Toxic)

[Alboy]

Drinksgin asked this in an e-mail but I felt it was a discussion worthy of general interest and would like to get other hunters experiences in on the matter.
 
Alboy;
what do you do for leadfree shot?
Most of the posts I have seen are not very happy with
steel, actually, most were downright mad.
I do not hear much about bismuth, so , what I have
heard alot about is Heavishot.
Some posters went into raptures about it, one lifetime
3" 12 gage addict reported he was going to sell his 12
and buy a 3" 20 and just shoot heavishot, as it would
do anything a 3" 12 with steel or bismuth shot would
do, and would actually do what his 12 with 1 3/8 oz
lead shot would do.
I have not shot waterfoul since the leadfree reg's
went in effect, too worried about damaging my no
longer made sxs 3" 20.
What has been your experience with leadfree shot?
 
Drinksgin
 
I am going to copy and post this in Upland Game / Waterfowl as I think it is a gem dandy question to start a good discussion with.
 
Most guides I know recommend BBB or T for steel shot size. They are praying for one golden pellet at 60-75 yard shots. I differ in that I want to wait till they are in around 35 yards and use smaller shot for denser pattern and better kill ratios. For the last two years I have shot black powder except on rain days when I had customers and took a modern gun.
 
Right now in my modern shotguns for geese I use steel 1's or 2's. Bismuth 4's.
 
For duck in steel 2's, 4's, 6's. With bismuth 6's.
 
On black powder I worked up a steel load with 2's using modern plastic cups for steel. I always worried about damaging the old barrels as my 12 CVA SxS was manufactured before lead was outlawed. Last year I switched to Bismuth and use 4's for geese and 6's for duck. Finding a mail order source for the bismuth helped.
 
I have not shot "Heavishot" but am intrigued. I don't remember the particular metal mix right now but it seemed it would be as hard on old barrels as steel. Any barrel designed for steel should handle it no problem. I would not want to hurt the old timers though and have been shooting mainly those types of shotguns for the last few years. Since I just got the new Pedersoli with chromed barrels I may try some in black powder. Like you every one I talk to that has used it liked the performance.
 
Until the hardness question is answered to my satisfaction I will not use it in my older guns but may run a few rounds through the newer ones.
 
One thing that is positive to me on the expensive lead substitutes is that it tends to make the shooters wait for better shots. It is tough when the birds have been passing at 60 yards all day to wait for the 35 yard shot but when the trigger pull costs $2.50 per twitch it helps. mI know the patoence I re-learned with the slower re-load time has brought my shots to dead birds ratio up to about 1 miss in every 4 shots. Not because I am a great wing shot but it is hard to miss geese at 35 yards or less and a lot of pellets find their way home.
 
I shot a few rounds of skeet the other day and my BEST score was 7.

[Whitetail_hunter]

I like the heavy shot. Last year I bought a box of Bismuth, Heavyshot, and regular steel. I distributed three of each kind to the two guys hunting with me. We each started with a different load. and would switch them out each time we shot. Between three different hunters the heavy shot consistantly killed more birds that the other two loads. Although I do shoot a lot of steel because of th price I like the heavy shot the best.
 
As far as shot size I like several different ones. For Ducks I like #2, for Geese I like BBB, and if I am hunting where there will be both I use BB. If I am just hunting ducks I use a 3 inch shell If I am shotting geese or both I go to the 3 1/2 inch.

[Smokepole]

There seems to be a misconception about the use of non-toxics and lead shot.  The biggest issue is not whether it will wear the barrel but the fact that “steel” will not compress when going through the choked end of the barrel.  The lack of compressibility of steel causes undo barrel pressure.  This will and can cause damage to the barrel.  Even in newer firearms which state “Safe for use with Steel”, you will find the recommended choke opens ups.  The shot cup and Mylar wraps will keep most of the steel shot from ever contacting the insides of the barrel, but not the excess pressures.

Hevi-shot is just as harmful as steel when used with the older guns. Since hevi-shot is supposedly more dense than lead.  Density of the material refers to the mass per unit volume of a substance under specified conditions of pressure and temperature.  In the case of hevi-shot and steel shot this equates to the compressibility of the substance.

Like Alboy, I also shoot black powder smooth bores. Unlike Alboy, I do it exclusively.
I find that my muzzleloaders prefer 1¼ #5 bismuth, more down range energy than #6’s, for the decoyed ducks and 1 ½-1¾ #2 bismuth for geese. All my other bird shooting I use assort sizes of lead shot.

I tried the 1¼-1¾ #4 hevi-shot in my 10 ga. SxS, and what it did was to create such a tight pattern that I needed longer shots to allow the pattern to open up to assist with providing a more suitable and effective pattern.  Of course shooting black powder with its reduce velocity (compared to modern shells, say 1050 fps to 1300+ fps) has now created a much larger desired lead. Also you now have to take into consideration the drop in the pattern do to lower velocity and the extra range.  All of a sudden things get more complicated.  Most shooters never consider pattern drop.  The birds will be accelerating, the shot pattern slowing down and dropping, need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.

One interesting note, to test the hevi-shot I purchased a box of 3” #4’s for the 10 ga.( $23.00), I wanted to see the effects of the components supplied by the manufacturer.  I did notice that the size of the shot was all over the place.  Some looked like #2’s, some like #9’s or smaller, sort of reminded me of the duplex loads.  These things looked nasty.  I counted the pellets prior to shooting and found that some never even punctured paper at 30 yds.

Based on the price per shot using hevi-shot vs. bismuth, I’ll take the bismuth every time. Decrease the distance from me to the intended target, increase my shot to harvest ratio and have a great day afield.

Never realized how long winded I get.  Hope I didn't bore everyone to sleep.

Sincerely,
Smokepole

[Alboy]

Thanks for jumping in Smokepole.
 
For the guys who don't know you, this is a fellow that shoots more BP Shotgun in a week than most of us shoot anything in a year.
 
Looks like we are close on pellet sizes to me and the real shot maker is too wait the birds in to the ranges when every one shot 2 3/4" chambers. With magnumitis have come the the T, BBB, BB shot sizes and trying for the 75 yard shots. Your point on pattern drop is a good one, it takes a lot of practice to learn to adjust for all of that.

[Jay Edward (deceased)]

Thanks fellas...I think your experience is going to help out a lot of folks who are somewhat mystified about the use of the 'new' shot.

One aspect I would like to add is this business of compressing the 'shot'.  I've seen a number of barrels that were 'ringed' when steel shot first became mandatory.  Some of the 'ringed' barrels did not show on the outside but could be definitely 'felt' and measured on the inside.

A hunter could go any number of years and not run into this problem or run into it at once.  It all depends on whether or not there is a single plane of shot when the shot enters the choke.  By 'a single plane of shot' I am speaking to the event where it just happens that, on one plane, shot is in line 'shoulder to shoulder'.  The effect is like trying to push a solid steel disc through the choke.  The steel just won't compress.

Sometimes the barrel can be 'ringed' enough to see it on the outside and sometimes it just 'ringed' on the inside.  Supposedly the barrel walls of modern shotguns were thickened and a chrome lining was introduced to eliminate or minimize this problem.  I think it has worked, mostly, but I wouldn't give you a plug nickle (pardon the pun) for your chances with an original BP shotgun.  Maybe you would get away with it for sometime...but if it happened, you wouldn't be able to put on a new barrel very easily.