Started by LLANOJOHN (deceased), January 14, 2005, 03:22:22 PM
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Quote from: 2ndtimer...... I swallowed hard and had my dealer buddy order me up a Howa 1500 Lightning in 6.5x55. Unfortunately, the story doesn't have a happy ending, at least not yet. The new Howa is perfect from a cartridge standpoint. Minimal recoil with 120 gr handloads and the 140 gr factory loads seem equally mild. The rifle feels great shooting offhand, and is very reliable loading, chambering, firing, and extracting. The problem is just that it doesn't shoot very well. I am going to try glass bedding the action this weekend to try to fix it, but since I have never tried one before, I don't know how it will work out. My shooting buddies are all convinced that all it needs is a bedding job. Sure hope they are right, because if I could get this thing to shoot consistent 1.5 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards off a benchrest, I would be one happy camper. Wish me luck. But the 6.5x55 is one nice caliber, provided you can get your rifle to shoot!
Quote from: kombi1976The question you're almost asking, and I say almost, is "is 6.5 the only cal we need?" Remember it's a short step from there to the one-gun-for-all-occasions and we shouldn't encourage our wives on that one. :D
Quote from: kombi1976This is just an observation, John, but for someone who seems to hold such distain for 6.5 magnums(including, I gather, the 6.5/284) you aren't afraid to use "standard" supercharged 6.5 wildcat cartridges. The 6.5-06 AI would be close on the tail of the 6.5/284 I'd suspect, just as the .280 AI is close on the heels of the 7mm Rem Mag. RumRunner was talking about the mystic 2400fps. Do you prescribe to this and primarily use heavy projectiles like the European loads or are you using these high performance cartridges to gain speed and a flat trajectory?
Quote from: gitanoJohn, Now, arguing for a battery of arms built around one caliber IS an idea I can embrace. Personally my choice would be .323" not .264", but then that's what makes horse races. I would also offer the idea of making a battery of arms of different calibers built on a single case - Oh say the 57mm or even - dare I say it - the .308? :) Paul
Quote from: BrithunterHi All, Now Ol' John my dear felow you seem to have stopped short on thses:- " In the 57mm case....257 Roberts, 257 'Bob' AI (which you already have), so how about a .260 AAR (257 AI necked up to 6.5), 7mm Mauser and the AI version, 8mm Mauser and an AI(I have the reamer), our joint venture the 338x57 MAI....sounds like a plan! " Err where's the 9x57, 9.3x57 and the 9.5x57 ( .375 RNE), the 6.5x57 already exists and has done so for many years, 7.5x57 would be interesting as it would be a .30x57mm! I do believe that in Europe there is also a 5.6x57 whihc is one screamer of a cartridge along the likes of the 220 Swift;) ........
Quote from: BrithunterHi John, I gather that you DO have one of the 6.5x53R cartridges then? and of course it's slightly later rimless counter part the 6.5x54MS! which of course were also known as the .256 Mannlicher. If not let me know and I just might be able to help having some of both;)
QuoteI definitely wouldn't take one on a brown bear hunt.
Quote from: HondoJohn6508Quote:I definitely wouldn't take one on a brown bear hunt. sakorick...neither would I and that includes polar bears, neighbor!
Quote from: TimberghoztHey Ol John.Pardon my inducition of cartridge choice of the 6.5mm diameter bullet. Actually I am interested in it in a few facets too include either the 6.5 -06, 264WM or 6.5-284.I have never played with the 6.5 diameter.So it will be a learning experience for me.
Quote from: HondoJohn6508Just read an interesting article by John Barsness on the ".264 Win Magnum" ... we will be getting to that particular 6.5 cartridge very soon.
Quote from: klallen Please clear something up for me. Are you saying that you are looking to buy yourself a .264 WinMag very soon or you're just looking to talk about the cartridge very soon here on THL. Careful how you choose to answer that question. One unexpected answer (and I'm sure you know which one that would be) and I'd be knocked plumb off my chair !!! ;o) Take it easy, HONDO. >> klallen
Quote from: gitanoYeoman's work there John. (Where's that applause emoticon when you need it?) The BJAI does look interesting, but until you get to the Win Mag they all look pretty good to me. Hate to look a gift horse in the mouth, (but I will anyway :) ), how about some velocity data for Grendel and BR with an 85 grain bullet. Also, do you know of any bullets for the 6.5 between 85 and 100 grains? Paul
Quote from: kombi1976You just love anything with a belt, Klallen
Quote from: klallenThe attraction's for performance. In this group of 6.5's that John has taken the time to put together with great pics and educational descriptions, there's a performance leader and then the others in the middle of the pack. Now, I'm not saying the middle of the pack cartridges aren't quality cartridges; they just aren't me and they aren't the one that I've owned and hunted with over the past couple years.
Quote from: sakorickafter reading each and every post in this thread....no... the 6.5 is not the perfect caliber. The 6.5x'06 seems to get in the top 10. Regards, Rick.:D
Quote from: CAfricaNow that really is an interesting graph. If you say it is also similar for the other 6.5's then it seems that the 140gr Nosler Partitions that I shoot in my 6.5-06 happens to be a good choice. C, after creating all these graphs, I think I'd go with Nosler's 125 Partition. Its performance is "close enough" to the 140s that I'd opt for the reduced recoil of the 125. This only because it's a Partition. I'm still experimenting but I seem to be able to launch them at around 3000ft/s + from my 26"bbl. I asume you'r basing this graph on published BC's and published velocities available in each calibre for each bullet? So the "variance"between the 4 100gr bullets is due solely to a difference in BC? Is that correct? Absolutely. Most of the velocities came from P.O. Ackley, or Richard Lee. The BCs came from the manufacturer ofhte bullet. I set all bullets of the same weight to the same muzzle velocity. That is of course not technically correct, but I'm sure the differences are insignificant with respect to this exercise. Regards. Looks like I shoulda made these graphs before I bought all those "light" bullets. :o Actually, I did get some 129s. But truly, I like the idea of the 125 Partiton. C
Quote from: HondoJohn6508Paul, As I understand your graph, a bullet selection of anything from 120 to 140 grains gives the max delivered energy to the game hunted at 300 yards. Am I reading this correctly? Absolutely correct John. Based on my memory(oops!), the 120's like the Nosler BT would more than likely give the flatest trajectory to 300 but not by a whole lot as compared to the 140. Here are the BCs for the respecive bullets. 120 BallisticTip - .458120 Spitzer - .368120 BTHP - .403125 Partition - .449140 Partition - .490140 BTSP - .490140 BTHP - .526140 A-MAx - .550140 SST - .520140 Spitzer - .465 As you can see, the 140s 'hold their own' with BCs. But I would agree with your assessment below, except that I'd probaly choose a BallisticTip 140 for Moose. My experience with Partitions is that they penetrate very well, but they blow back to the partition, and have an expanded diameter of just slightly larger than nominal - only .264" in this case. I wouldn't be worrying about penetration if I could deliver 2000+ ft-lbs of energy with a Ballistic Tip. I'd rather have the bigger hole. So for antelope, whitetail and mule deer or perhaps Bighorn sheep or Mountain goat, the 120 Nosler BT, 120 Sierra Gameking and the 125 Nosler Partition would be the bullets of choice to do the job required. Given an accuracy maximum of 1.5" at 100 and 4.5" at 300 yards. For elk or caribou, perhaps a selection of the 140grain bullets available would be the better choice. I would think that the Nosler 140gr Partition would be the bullet of choice for moose. What say you? Ol' John..
Quote from: CafricaSecondly, another factor in the equation is the "if the bullets behave the same" part. That is the part where I prefer partitions and specifically the monolithics from a "penetration" point of view. Less strong bullets loose a lot of weight at the point of impact, leaving a light remaining projectile that does not have sufficient momentum to (say) break a large shoulder bone. I've shot very tough critters - mountain goat - with a 150 grain Ballistic Tip out of a .308 Win at about 125 yards, it broke both shoulder blades and the backbone and was found on the far side under the skin. The monometal bullets ratain about 85 to 90% weight even at high velocity impacts and the partitions 75 to 80%. A non partition, like a polymer tipped bullet, may loose as a lot more and on a close shot, where impact velocity is still high, it may fail to perform if it has to traverse much tissue to reach the vitals.
Quote from: CAfricaHi Gitano, Thanks for all the trouble. As Ol' John sez, "If it's fun, it ain't work." The point is that I am very happy with the bullets I currently use and see no need to change. And there my friend, is the whole Truth. I found the new graphs very interesting and about what I expected. In the energy graphs, the sweetspot was around to 125gr mark. I think it's closer to 140 than 120. With the momentum graphs, the sweetspot is from 147gr upwards. My selection of the 140gr partition rather than the 125gr puts me nearer the spot (although the difference is small and dead is dead isn't it?). You betcha. Although the 110gr is substantially off the ideal spot, my idea is to use it on small targets (springbok weight less than 50lb) and the selection of this bullet is because of the flat trajectory (springbok are plains game and long shots are the norm). I wouldn't hesitate to use the 110 on game substatially larger, but then that's where this all started, isn't it. :D Thanks again for all the trouble with the graphs. No sweat, GI. Regards. C
Quote from: HunterbugOk, so I'm jumping in here a little late but since I just got my first 6.5, well......... Anyway, is it the perfect caliber, no. But it's pretty good. It's great for deer and hog sized game. It's smaller than I personally would like to use for game such as elk and moose but it would deffinately work in a pinch. And deffinately more than is necessary for coyotes and smaller. I don't really see the advantage that it has over the .257 on deer sized game as both have plenty of power to kill a deer as far or farther than I will willingly shoot at a deer sized animal so any added power is purely academic. I have only begun to play with mine and hope to take a coyote or two in late August or early September and maby a deer next year.
Quote from: gitanoLotsa, lotsa moose killed every year in Scandinavia with 6.5s. LOTS of them! Paul
QuoteI agree that the 6.5 will kill both elk and moose but I have too many more suitable calibers to take my 6.5X55 for an elk or moose hunt as my primary weapon.
Quote from: HunterbugI agree that the 6.5 will kill both elk and moose but I have too many more suitable calibers to take my 6.5X55 for an elk or moose hunt as my primary weapon.
Quote from: CAfricaGitano, GS Custom make a 95gr HV. I have purchased a packet and it is on my list of things to try in my 6.5-06. Sigh, so many things I want to do, so little time. C
Quote from: overbore:) Just to stir the pot a bit, as you can see by my age, I have been shooting and reloading for at least 50 years and hve become cautious as to what we suggest but here are a few: use Norma Brass, don't use old Mauser rifles, Cordially, Overbore
Quote from: overboreNew high pressure loads excede the design metulurgy of the old Mauser actions:eek: OVERBORE
Quote from: overboreSAkorick, fist tell me about those wings, please, as I am a long time pilot with my first rating being the B-25. Since I answered your question in a private e-mail, I am putting my reasons in open view: New high pressure loads excede the design metulurgy of the old Mauser actions; however, having said that , for the original loads, the old actions are fine but use an open information source such as www.hogdonpowder.com to pay attention to the pressures if you do not have modern computer loading program. If anyone is contemplatig a load that uses common bullets and powders, I will be glad to run them through my programs and post the pressures. WARNING!!! Any load combination that is not listed in the databases may be dangerously high in pressure !!! This is particularly true of the old Mauser actions and temperature changes!!! OVERBORE
Quote from: 2ndtimerThis brings up the question of just how hot the loading manuals loads are. Most of them don't say what pressure their 6.5x55 loads are, and leaves us wondering if they are held down to "prudent" 6.5x55 pressure levels, hence can be safely exceeded within reason by shooters using modern bolt actions. For instance, one manual lists 46 gr of IMR-4350, standard primer, 129 gr Hornady bullet as a maximum load. What it doesn't say is whether that is a 50,000 cup load or a 44,000 cup load..
Quote from: overbore2ndtimer, Hot off the computer is this data: I entered the program with this data: Hornady 129grsp (sp2620) 6.5 X55 Sweede H-4350 powder; charge 46.0 gr 26" barrel ( optimistic ) ; SUBTRACT ABOUT 26FPS/ SHORTER INCH PROGRAM SAYS: "MV= 2,825'/SEC CHAMBER PSI IS 48,764 , WARM LOADING LOA IS 3.150" FOR LOADING DENSITY OF 91.1%. iT APPEARS WARM BUT SAFE UP TO 75 DEGREES. ALL CAUTIONS APPLY. OVERBORE
Quote from: overboreMay I respectfully refer all to the following link: for all to evaluate for themselves the 10 shot throat errosion with dangerous pressure rises in a 6.5.. Mauser. Overbore
QuoteThen a "spontaneous disassembly" occurred that destroyed the action but left the barrel undamaged.
QuoteSo unless I can set up my own ballistics lab with pressure testing equipment (come on Lotto!),