Blackpowder 103

[Jay Edward (deceased)]

And the Chinese?
 
  There is persistent gossip that the Chinese invented black powder as early as the 9th century. Enter Google with the key words - black powder, Chinese, 9th century - and you'll find 73 results. It's absolutely unfounded and I hope I can contribute to bring this to an end.
 
  The travel of Marco Polo to China in 1271-1298
 
  It is highly probable that the Polos were the first three Europeans to travel to Mongolia. Participants on this journey were Marco, his father Nicolo and his uncle Maffeo. They traveled by ship and on horseback and arrived ca. 1275 at the court of the Kublai Khan in Kanbalik, today Beijing. The three earned the confidence of the Khan. As a consequence, Marco became governor of the recently conquered province Kiang-Nang in China. He remained in this position for 17 years.
  At the same time, the Mongols had the Chinese city Hsiang-Yang under siege for three years without success. The indignant Khan discussed the situation with the Polos, who promised to build machines for breaching the walls of Hsiang-Yang.
  The Polos then went to the besieged town and built three catapults capable of propelling rocks of 300 pounds as far as 60 paces. With these, the walls of Hsiang-Yang could be broken in due time. A Chinese chronicler reported that the flying rocks created a hissing sound like a storm.
                   
 
  After returning to Europe, Marco Polo was imprisoned in Genoa (Italy), where he dictated his story to a fellow prisoner who recorded it in French. This story was translated into English by Yule and Cordier: "The Book of Sir Marco Polo" (1903/1921) 3).
 
  Conclusion: Do you really think, dear reader, the Polos would have built catapults if the Khan had known about black powder, supposedly invented 400 years before? Furthermore, Marco Polo gave us ample details about the daily life in China. It's hard to believe he didn't mention fireworks if he had seen any.
 
  About Chinese Literature
 
  All citations you read on the internet or in print, have the following peculiarities in common:
 
  - The references are always cited by Europeans, never by Chinese. At best, the author claims that the text was "translated by a Chinese".
 
  - As a rule, the references cite "an old Chinese book". You never learn the title of the book nor the library in which you'd find it.
 
  - I have never seen a copy of an original text as proof that the Chinese invented black powder. Without such proof, it is impossible to examine the claims.
 
  - Only Romoki 4) printed a reference in Chinese characters, allegedly from 1232. Obviously it's a modern print and the text is too fragmented to prove its truth. The story in this text deals with a fire pot.
 
  Romoki tries to prove that the Chinese repelled the besieger of the city of Pien-King (not Peking) with the aid of black powder in 1232.  Note, it is written between quotes, - a hint its authenticity once was challenged at one time by a Chinese author.
 
  And by the way, the marked text is written in modern Chinese
 
  Compared to an alphabetic script, pictography has one great advantage: You can read it without any knowledge of the particular language. Remember the many symbols you had to click on before you found this very article. Draw a bird or a watch and an Eskimo as well as a Frenchman will know what you are meaning. But try to write a symbol for "beautiful", "procrastinate" or "saltpeter" and the problems of the interpretation of pictography begin.
 
  Today all Chinese pictographs are made up of 214 basic signs which may be combined according to strict rules. The same pictographs are shared by the Japanese, the Koreans and some other Asian nations. Though these languages have practically nothing in common, the writing is understood by all of them and also by Westerners if they bother to study the rules of Chinese pictographs.
 
  So we see that a cannon could just as well be a catapult and black powder could be a harmless bonfire. And above all, the Chinese had fireworks before the advent of black powder. E.g. they bent a green bamboo splinter into the shape of a slithering serpent and tied it tightly with string. After drying, the dried pole was thrown into a fire. When set afire, it jumped out of the fire with cracking noises, caused by the breaking of the bends in the bamboo splint.
 
  To find out the truth, the complete cited text has to be analyzed in its full context without prejudices.

[greywolf]

not going to c/p the entire article ,  but mostly covers what jay said , with a slightly different view , just thought to add another opinion to give a fair view not trying to be contentious :  http://www.chemheritage.org/explore/milestone_fireworks.html

[Jay Edward (deceased)]

There does seem to be a difference of opinion about the history of Black Powder greywolf.  I certainly don't know what is correct.

My only interest was in presenting the 'recipes' for making it to those who might not be able to purchase it.  That said... anyone trying to make it is on his/her own as THL does not endorse the manufacture of any dangerous substance.  The information must be judged on the belief in the author(s) of the articles.

I wonder if they will ever be able to figure out what is the truth.  I was struck by the fact that the arguments are amongst  Caucasians and are not endorsed one way or another by the Chinese.  

[greywolf]

Jay, history is full of people that can't agree etc..... Even when trying to come up with something as simple as who invented black powder. Personally I couldn't care if it was invented by the tooth fairy. But it is fun searching through all the different opinions and scenarios tho isn't it ? leaves it up to the individual to decide :) Either way , nobody is right or wrong in this one, i really think nobody knows, and they may never know , or one day they find a scroll or something and everything anybody thought goes out the window. i love going thru things tho and formulating my own opinion is more fun that way :) take care


                                                        M.

[Jay Edward (deceased)]

Jay, history is full of people that can't agree etc..... Even when trying to come up with something as simple as who invented black powder. Personally I couldn't care if it was invented by the tooth fairy.

Man!  How I wish that were true.  I'd rather have historical truth than the lousy 25 cents I (sometimes) received.  That brings up painful memories when the tooth fairy 'gave me a miss'.

As far as the interest of fireworks history with the general public:  It seems to start with the launch (swishhhhhhh) and end with the explosion ( KA-BOOM... Ahhhhhhhh).