Taxidermy-overpriced?

[davidlt89]

Before I get going, this is not a post to "offend" anyone who may be a taxidermist!!

I was looking through a USA FOXX magazine and noticed that they would make a bear rug for me if I sent them the pelt and the price was 4.00 a linear inch.

I have a pelt in the freezer that needs to be fleshed and I am pretty sure it is under 4' long. BUT, say it is 4' long, that is 192.00. they will add the felt broders and turn up the ears.

Now I realize the head is not getting done, BUT, rugs in my neck of the woods start at 600.00 no matter how big your bear is. then they add substantially for so much an inch after a certain length. AND, if I am not mistaken it is just a piece of foam inside the head!!!

Honestly, heard some of the prices they are asking around here to do deer and bear heads and it just does not seem right. 12 years ago I had a bear and deer head done for what one costs now!!!!! And don't get me started on the prices for furs that are tanned in the shop!!!!! God Bless.

[rockinbbar]

David,

Taxidermy could be considered overpriced. Unless you are a taxidermist...
I mean a man has to figure what his time is really worth.

If you are getting taxidermy, there are cheap ones out there, but after seeing examples of their work, I would pay to NOT have their work in my house.

That said, I am not a taxidermy type of guy. I have a large amount of antlers collected, but no shoulder mounts, or other mounts for that matter.

If I were inclined to have a pelt tanned, I would contact the tannery myself, or get a home tanning kit and some felt for the backing and practice my artistic side...

[RatherBHuntin]

Having tanned a few hides, I'm willing to pay the price they are asking, to a point.  It's a lot of work and takes some experience to get it right.  The chemicals and forms aren't expensive, I imagine the machinery they use for fleshing and drying are expensive though.  I can do a hide, and I can do a skull mount, but other than that I cant imagine doing real taxidermy on my on.  After the taxidermist pays the tannery for the hide and buys the forms he is probably down a third to half the cost to you.  Add to that an hour measuring, skinning and fleshing the hide, and at least a few hours stretching and sewing and whatever else they do to the mount I figure I am getting my money's worth.  That's for a $350-400 large animal shoulder mount or a smaller animal full mount.  
 
If I didn't want to pay that price I would just have to settle on doing the hide myself.  Half of it you are already doing, and thats taking a hide off clean and sewing any holes in it. Heads, paws and tails are the hard parts.

[davidlt89]

Glenn is correct, tanning can be some work if you don't want your pelt like a piece of cardboard. tanning factory has a nice tumbler to keep it nice and limber.

I imagine the machinery they use for fleshing and drying are expensive though.

the actual "fleshing" is done by hand with a necker knife pretty much. there are fleshing machines but they are usually for the second go around to thin the skin, and with an experienced used, the flesh is done in minutes. These machines can be had for as low as 500.00. tumbler is not much more. As for drying, you just let it dry. overall labor is not to intense at all. And to be honest, for me to have a pelt tanned is not very expensive. If I send a blanket beaver (2XL), it is 25.00!!!

our taxidermist do none of this up here, they have it all sent away and they pay less because they send more pelts. For moyle mink to skin a beaver and flesh it, if I were to bring it there, is an extra 11.00!!!!!

I looked at the prices of forms, specifically black bear, and the largest neck mount form was 78.00!!!!!!

So, say I want a rug out of the little bear I have, I am in 600.00 start. this is with me skinning, fleshing, and drying it out!!! they send it away to have it tanned, lets say 125.00. Get it back and put the form in, which would be about 60.00 for my little bear which brings us to 185.00. They then add "felt" to the bottom, add a couple glass eyes which can't be more than another 40.00 bringing it to 225.00, add shipping fees which brings us to 255.00. so, lets say it takes them two hours to complete this task, and I am being nice on this, the rest is labor costs which are 375.00. I wish I made 172.00 an hour!!!!

and at least a few hours stretching and sewing

what are they stretching?? if you mean drying after fleshing, all they are doing is nailing the thing to a board and letting it set. This is the fastest part of putting up an animal. And as far as holes, I would not bring them a pelt with holes, so any holes would be their problem I would think?
Not to mention I already did all that work for them and they are still charging me the nominal fee!

I probably have literally more time into what I am doing than what they are doing!!! The "hard" part is done!

Now lets look at a deer mount. It costs 425.00 to get a shoulder mount in my parts. I bring the deer their all skun. They basically send the head and the cape away to be tanned, lets say 40.00. they order a form, another 70.00. then they sow it on the form and attach the horns. Quality of the fur is all a part of the tanning company! I am betting they have less than 200.00 in it an I believe that is nice.

and please, don't take this as complaining. I "like" taxidermy and i am very fond of one guy up here. I just think prices are a little "high". God Bless.

[gitano]

You are correct, David. About 25 years ago taxidermy became an "art". When I had my last caribou shoulder mount done, these were the prices for the "parts":
 
 1) Styrofoam form - $37,
 2) PAIR of eyes, $7,
 3) PAIR of ear inserts - $1.50,
 4) Modeling clay - $7.50 for 10 lb.
 5) Tan cape at "New Method" tanning house - $37.50.
 6) Time to flesh cape, about 15 minutes. I turned ears, eyes, and lips.
 
 I stood and watched the taxidermist COMPLETE the mount in just over 45 minutes. Cost to me - $450. That's about $400 per hour of ACTUAL labor.
 
 Now they are $750. Materials haven't gone up more than 20% AT THE MOST. I don't have any taxidermy done any more. Can't find one that isn't an "arteest" and WAY too proud of their "art".
 
 Honestly, I don't really care too much about 'offending'. A taxidermist's time isn't worth more than a good carpenter, and a GOOD carpenter RARELY gets $40/h let alone $400 per hour. All of the taxidermists I know have multiple boats, airplanes, off-road vehicles and spend the hunting season GONE, then tell me they I have to wait 18 MONTHS to get my pieces back because they're "too busy". Just another honest trade that has gone to greed.
 
 Up here, fish taxidermy costs $50 per inch. Why? You ask. Because they can get it from the fat cats that come up here and money is no object because their corporation is footing the bill.
 
 Paul

[davidlt89]

Up here, fish taxidermy costs $50 per inch.

you got to be kidding!!!! that is insane.
I caught a 14lb lake trout in 97 and thought very seriously of having it mounted. the guy wanted 10.00 and inch and being a college student, I just did not have the duckets to do it!!!
I really would like a nice mount of a grouse that looks like it is flying up the wall but they want almost 300.00. Doing a bird like that is not time consuming at all and the skin is easily prepared for the mount!!! I just can't bring myself to do it!!! God Bless.

[recoil junky]

If you want a European mount, I got a red ant hill we can put the skull in for about a week. I've never tried it but I hear they get it about as clean as them beetles.

I even got some beetle kill lodgepole that would make a nice backing board.

RJ

[RatherBHuntin]

ants work great for cleaning

[davidlt89]

I bury all mine in the garden for a month, works well. Getting ready to do a European mount for my buddies deer this year. God Bless.

[gitano]

Instead of making claims based on conversations with A taxidermist, I decided to look some up and post their prices:


Fish Mount Prices

1.- Skin Mounts and Fiberglass Reproductions $28 - $39 per inch
2.- 360 Degree Two-Sided Mounts $56- $68 per inch
3.- Halibut Tail Mount $250-$395
4.- Lingcod Head Mount $575
5.- Shark Tail Mount $575

These are in the "middle ground" of prices.

 A 30" "trout" form from van Dyke's costs $26. A 30" fish would cost $39 per inch (the longer the fish the higher the price PER INCH),  or $1170. A 30" "trout" form from van Dyke's costs $26. A pair of eyes costs $7.25. A pound of clay (enough to do AT LEAST 10 fish) costs $5.50. (Cheaper if you buy more like a taxidermist would.) Then there's the paints, all of which gets amortized over maybe 50 fish per gallon. Wall mounting plaque is $15. Adding up the easily identifiable parts gives $53.75. Now DOUBLING that for those that want to defend the extortion, and argue about cost for "electricity", phone, etc., yields $107.50. Again, I have PERSONALLY watched a fish being completed from start to finish, and it takes about 3 hours OF LABOR. (Actually takes about 3 days to let modeling clay and paint dry.) So subtracting the $107.50 from the $1170 we get $1062.50. Dividing that by FIVE hours of labor - which is TRULY giving them WAY too much credit - means they are getting $212.50 PER HOUR for their labor. How many of "you" get $212/hour for your TECHNICAL expertise. And keep in mind that we are being EXCEEDINGLY GENEROUS with their costs AND their time spent.

 I'm not apologizing to ANY taxidermists for "offending" them by accusing them of price gouging. Today's taxidermy prices are obscenely greedy.
 
 Paul

[RatherBHuntin]

I must be the only one "defending" taxidermists, and for the record I am not defending anyone. I simply stated they have costs, and TO ME those costs are reasonable. I have seen ugly mounts and if I did one that is surely what it would look like, I have done European mounts and when I dont feel like paying, that is what I do. If a taxidermist pays $100 to $150 for materials, tanning, and overhead and charges another $250 for his time on a deer shoulder, then that is what he charges, which is typical here, $400 for a whitetail shoulder mount.
 
One thing I will defend is a mans right to charge whatever he feels like his time is worth, because at the same time I also wholeheartedly beleive in the free market, and if someone is gouging, overcharging, bilking, swindling or otherwise taking advantage of his customer base, the customer base should let him know by not visiting his establishment. If no one is doing it cheaper that is because demand is outstripping supply and in that case you can charge whatever you want, unfortunately for us.  If he is getting asking rate for his work, then that is indeed what it is "worth", at least to enough people to keep him in business.  The customer decides the value, not the provider.  Animosity and frustration should be aimed at those paying unrealistic prices, and if that is me then so be it.  
       
I agree with all that has been said with the caveat "to me" or "to you". $1100 for a fish is too expensive "To me". If there are folks out there that pay for that, more power to em, and those that charge it. Sounds to me like there are some prime business opportunities up north for taxidermists, I dont hate them for it. I wish I had the skill, and if I did I am sure I would charge less than going market rate, just to draw business, but I wouldn't be giving money away by charging half of what I could get for something simply because I thought that would be a "fair" price.
 
Writing this I had to take a look at my own behavior and value I place on goods and services.  I drew a corollary to the recent ammo/component shortages and gouging.  Lots of places were selling components at inflated prices and I will not patronize those folks again, but the person I really was frustrated with were those encouraging this behaviour by paying the prices they were asking.  But hey, that is the value they placed on the goods they were getting, who am I to tell them what they think something ought to be worth.  I can only choose to spend or not spend my money with these people.

[davidlt89]

Glenn, I could not disagree more!!! But that is what makes this forum good, we can "agree to disaree". you are giving taxidermist far to much credit!! I had a birthday party for my two youngest boys friday night and me and my friend (ditch) were mulling this over. the first words that came out of his mouth was how much an "art" it is!!! we just disagreed from their on.
first, quality of work should be expected, enough said. If I bring an animal to have some work done I expect it to be good work, point blank!!! sadly, guys that do "good work" expect "more" when in reality that is the quality of work that should be expected.
I could go on, but not much point. the "greed" is easy to see. You guys also give them to much credit for "handling" animals. the more animals I catch trapping the better I get at "handling" them, also the faster I get with the same "quality" of work. this is what really got me thinking in the first place. personally, taxidermy does not seem to hard, but maybe I am wrong. they have hardly anything in materials compared to the prices they charge. Labor is Labor, I want to know what constitutes 100.00-200.00 and hour AND then wait a year or year and a half to get your product back because they take hunting season off or "work at their own pace", or take a "vacation".  God Bless.

[gitano]

Lately, I have been hearing a lot of comments along the likes of yours, Glenn, and they sound reasonable, and in a simple system, they are. The trouble is, our economic system isn't simple. I doubt there is a more staunch proponent of capitalism than I, but I do NOT support UNFETTERED capitalism. It is unfettered capitalism that allowed the oil and railroad robber barons to do what they did, which lead DIRECTLY to the backlash of communism and formation of unions which are the foundation stone of socialism in the developed world.
 
 "What the market will bear" is a simplistic approach, but a completely unrealistic one. The issues brought up in this thread are PERFECT examples of the failure of that concept, especially in today's GLOBAL market. In the case of taxidermy, let's say that each taxidermist in Alaska could get a million dollars from ONE customer. All they have to do is have ONE customer that pays a million dollars - covering their "costs" for a year - and everyone else can spit up a rope. Who cares if no one else can afford to pay a million dollars for a shoulder mount, THAT'S WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR and everyone else is out of luck. What if that shoulder mount was a loaf of bread instead of a "luxury"?
 
 This is PRECISELY where the ammunition manufacturers are at today. The recent STUPID buying frenzy showed them that they don't have to do ANYTHING but increase their prices. They DON'T have to even MAINTAIN production. In fact, they can REDUCE production and MAKE MORE MONEY because they will charge more. They DON'T have to make ANYTHING but .30 caliber and .22 caliber bullets and still MAKE A KILLING because IDIOTS are willing to pay $200 FOR A BRICK OF .22 RF AMMO!
 
 I cannot, and do not, condone GREED in the name of "political correctness", (it's "All-American" to be an advocate for "what the market will bear"). Greed is bad. When a taxidermists make 10 times the hourly wage of a skilled craftsman, I have a genuine problem with that. It's GREED pure and simple, and I do not condone greed. I have been in business for a bit over 20 years, and the ONLY entity that I am willing to charge "whatever the market will bear" is federal and state governments. And here's something I'll bet you aren't aware of: IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO CHARGE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ONE CENT MORE THAN THE LEAST YOU CHARGE ANY OTHER CUSTOMER. Clearly, the GOVERNMENT knows the danger of "whatever the market will bear", and as usual, enforces BY LAW a double standard whereby THEY HAVE to get the lowest POSSIBLE price, but will do nothing to assure that NON-GOVERNMENT businesses don't realize incomprehensible profits.
 
 It's not a simple problem. I hate communism, but unconstrained capitalism leads INEXORABLY to slavery. I have precious little time for unions, but without them in an unconstrained capitalistic culture, the vast majority of us would be indentured SLAVES.
 
 I don't have a solution, but what used to work when the "market" was local - not doing business with businesses that were greedy - is COMPLETELY ineffectual today with the global market facilitated both by a HUGE population and the internet. "They" couldn't care less that I don't do business with them. There are a thousand waiting in the wings to spend SOMEBODY ELSE'S MONEY.
 
 Paul

[gitano]

Here's a story in which "Whatever the market will bear" (AKA greed) was NOT the driving force in a business decision. http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/articles/3450-video-utah-gunmaker-says-no-to-15m-sale-to-pakistan#sthash.TEoL0VWH.dpbs
 
 Paul

[drinksgin (deceased)]

Yep!!!!