one caliber for africa

[neo76201]

if you could only take one caliber rifle to africa what would it be considering all game for the smallest planes game to the largest dangerous game. and what loads would you use for the different sizes of animals?
 
neo

[Big Red Trike]

A calibre u can shoot all day long without developing recoil shyness...so stay away from ultramags.....maybe a 30-06. I hear and read that all the African guides carry them.....maybe 2 rifles a 30-06 and I think its a 450 Nitro for the dangerous stuff......I like the 7MM REM MAG for all but the toothiest of critters.
 
Anyone else? As I have never hunted there, just read stories.....

[Kanibal]

I agree that most of the African game can be taken with a 7mm Rem Mag until you start after the water buffalo, Elands, Elephants and Rhinos.  I hunt black bear which are as big or bigger than a good sized male lion and use a 7mm mag to kill them so imagine it would work for lions as well.  A 7mm mag would work well for anything from a dik dik to a lion and Id imagine it would even kill an Eland.  I dont know if I would use one on a water buffalo though, they are very tough to kill. Also remember to pick something with some range to it.  In that a 7mm Rem Mag would be great.
 
Myself I chose the 7mm Rem Mag, just because I own one and it works great for me.  I imagine any of your favorites similar to a 7mm mag would work.  A 300 Win Mag or a 338 Win Mag would also be great.  
 
But one cartridge that you can load down and also load up for small animals to the bigger elephants and what not is a 458 win mag.  I believe you can load 200 grain to 500 grain bullets.

[The meerkat]

Hi

 
I live in South Africa and had been hunting Africa for the last 35 years. I have hunted everything Africa has on offer except Rhino which I refuse to kill. In Africa we all own two utility rifles that we hunt everything with. ( A possibility of 40 species or more. These are: A 30-06 for almost all the heavy stuff - whether in the Bush or desert and a  .243 for all the lighter plains game where we need distance of 250 meteres to 600. These are for Springbuck, Impala, Blesbuck, Duiker, Reedbuck and Ribbuck etc.
 
At 17 years of age, I downed an Elephant cow with an open sights .303 at 50 meters.
 
Our continent offers 30 species or more big game at distances of less than 150 meters. The sizes of these big game animals are almost 80% of them covered with comfort by a 30-06.
Regards
The Meerkat
Stellenbosch (near Cape Town)
South Africa

[Jay Edward (deceased)]

I suppose, strictly from a logic viewpoint...considering the range of bullets that are available...I would take my .375 H&H.

Standard bullet weights range from about 235 grain bullets (approx. velocity 3000fps) to 300 grain bullets (approx. velocity 2500fps).

This is predicated on the 'one rifle, one cartridge' conditional question.  Having hunted in a few different states, I've found that it pays to have all your bases covered in unfamiliar territory.  It has been represented to me that the .375 H&H cartridge is available all over the world, so I reckon that is the rifle I would pack around.

I rather like my .375 H&H Ruger No. 1...it has traveled many a mile with me in my younger days.  I really should take another, better photograph of it but the only one I have is with an Idaho Elk taken in the 80s.  So, for what it is worth...here is the first big bore that I truly fell in love with.

[Bushbuck]

well, a little different perspective here. I have hunted Africa 10 times and have taken many animals from Lion, eland, Duiker etc. I have never fired a shot! I have however let quite a few arrows fly. I guess my #1 choice would be a 80# compound with acc arrows and a 100gr  broadhead..
  I also would rather throw an arrow at a cape Buffalo than use a 7mm. I happen to like the seven magg and have taken many animals back home with one, but I believe that is to light of a gun for that animal. It may not even be legal, I am not sure as I have never hunted Africa with a gun. The Water buffalo in austrailia from what I understand is even a couple hundered pounds heavier and I am not sure what they would allow to take that animal also.

[CAfrica]

Hi Neo,
 
This remains a perplexing item.  Legally you cannot hunt the big five with anything less than a 375 calibre.  So from that point of view, Jay's choice is probably the most practical.  The 375 H&H Magnum has enough velocity for the plains game situations with its lighter bullets and it is enough gun for the heavy animals with the appropriate load and bullet.
 
This calibre limitation is a pity because I believe this excludes some fine calibres which fall just below this threshold.  The 9.3 calibres come to mind.  They have an excellent reputation and are enough gun for any situation (exluding special circumstances such as wanting a stopper when following up wounded dangerous game).
 
Personally, if I were to exclude the legal limitation, I would select something like a double bbl rifle in 9.3X72 (or is it 74?  I can never remember).  This cartridge has the same ballistics as the 9.3X62 but it is a long thin cartridge.  This means that you can build a fairly light double bbl rifle for it and several companies build lovely little pieces at a price that would not break the bank.
 
Obviously in a double bbl, having different loads for plains and bush situations become a problem because of the bbl regulation. Still, I think I can live with that problem and would love one of these beaties in my gun cupboard.
 
Calibres that are within the legal limit and which would make fine "allrounders" are the 416's (Rigby etc) and then the 458's in various formats.
 
In Europe the "drillings"  are fairly popular.  The top bbl in a smaller  "allround" calibre and with the scope zeroed for it.  Removing the scope allows open sight shooting for the bottom bbl.  I once saw one with the top bbl in 7X64 (which has ballistics equal to the remington mag) and the bottom bbl in some larger calibre (can't remember exactly which one).
 
Regards.
 
C

[Springbuck]

Thanks C
 
Well argued. Could not agree more.  We have tried the 9.3 x 62 on smaller game, noteably Reedbuck and have found the meat damage excessive.  From practical argument I am in favour of the 7x64 and 7x57 on both bushveld as well as plains game, but would at the same time question the wisdom of the calibers on the bigger "dangerous" game.
 
Springbuck

[grizz1219]

For all African game from small to dangerous I would pick the 416 Rigby or a 375 H&H.......

[M1Garand]

With the size limitations I'd probably lean towards the .375 H & H, or either the .416 Rigby or Rem Mag.

[hunter veek]

I have recently returned from safari in south africa having shot a bushbuck , warthog and a 53 and one half inch kudu all with a .308. all 3 were one shot kills.A .30-06 woukd do just as well.
  But for the Big Five, I would use nothing smaller than a .375.

[Rodders]

If we were to stick strictly to the conditions listed in the original post, I would say that you would be very well served with a magazine rifle in .375 H and H.
 
This would be fine for most dangerous game situations (with well constructed bullets - FMJ or preferably monolithics) - guys have had bullet failure on close up shots at eles and buffs, as the muzzle velocity is too high at these close ranges, and the bullets deform or break up.
 
Once getting onto smaller game, the .375 would be great for bushveld hunting, where ranges seldom exceed 150 yards. Again, any soft point would be good beyond 75 yards, but good quality needed for under this, as bullet failure on big game has occurred due to break ups (eland, giraffe, etc).
 
Limit on .375 would come with plains game - Sprinbuck, Gemsbuck, blesbok, if they were hunted in their traditional habitat where 300 yards is close.
 
You could get by with the .375, as long as you have no objections to belly crawling to get close enough. It is here that something flatter shooting would be nice.
 
African hunting varies hugely on area and species, so this is a very general answer.

[fiorig]

For all African game from small to dangerous I would pick the 416 Rigby or a 375 H&H.......

:) Well ,I think there no definite answer.If you hunt with a PH and don't look for dangerous game ,you have a wide choice of excellent calibers for exemple the 9.3*74R in break -open action rifles or the ubiquitous .375 H&H mag in bolt action rifles
But if you are on your own you must be able to flatten a charging bull ,which is another story
In double rifles the formidable .470 Nitro Express or the modern .500/416 Nitro express by the German firm Krieghoff are mandatory .If you are bolt action minded the .416Rigby will foot the bill :the Czech firm CZ sells a bolt action 550mag cal .416 Rigby at rock bottom price
greetings to all
Fiorig

[RifleandReel]

The .375H&H is king and can be used for all African game species including DG. Another excellent all rounder for African game is something like a .30-06 or .308. You don't need a fast, magnum caliber for game in Africa unless you intend hunting plains game such as Springbok on the open plains where shots of 200 yards and more are standard. If I could only have one rifle though I'd stick to my .375.

[karl s]

Thanks C
 
Well argued. Could not agree more. We have tried the 9.3 x 62 on smaller game, noteably Reedbuck and have found the meat damage excessive. From practical argument I am in favour of the 7x64 and 7x57 on both bushveld as well as plains game, but would at the same time question the wisdom of the calibers on the bigger "dangerous" game.
 
Springbuck

Incorrect- most provinces in SA (excluding Natal and now the Northern Cape) have 9.3 as minimum, so does Namibia and Zimbabwe. (Not sure of Botswana, Mozambique & Zambia as I do not currently hunt there, but think you would be OK with it there as well.)
 
On the issue of the 9.3x62 causing more meat bruising, I beg to differ. It is high velocity and not size of the projectile (within reason of course) that causes meat bruising. There is no way you can accurately state that even the slower 7mm of the two (the 7x57) causes less meat damage than a 9.3. It might have looked that way to you, (maybe once off?), but will definately not be the rule.
 
i would still reccomend anything from a 9.3x62 to a .416 Rigby (and all inbetween, where legal of course), as a one gun "battery" for all, including elephant, buffalo, rhino, hippo, and maybe lion.
 
BTW CAfrica, the 9.3 you want is the 9.3x74, as the x72 is a real pipsqueek of a cartridge.

[RifleandReel]

I agree with Karl. It is not necessarily the size of the projectile that causes meat damage but rather the velocity and bullet choice. A solid in a 9.3 or .375H&H will cut clean through the animal whereas a soft would tear up everything inside a smaller animal - especially at close range.

[Pale Rider]

Hi all, given the one gun senario, the 375 H&H is probably the best gun to take to Africa. If you handload you can use bullet weights that range from 210 to 350 grains. It shoots flat and arrives with lots of authority. Never been to Africa but have killed a number of bear with it including a Grizzly. That's my choice.

[grayghost]

One gun? .416

[nrthrn_maine_hunter]

Hello,
I just want to say that I have never been to Africa, but I will and will be bringing my 30-378 Weatherby mag and the 460 Weatherby mag I will get before I go. I am a firm believer that you can not overkill an animal, which is kinda hard to argue with. One thing to keep in mind is that you also dont want an angry cape buf in thick stuff w/o some stopping power, and both of these calibers come standard w/ an accubrake which greatly reduces recoil, but makes it loud! If I had to choose 1 caliber it would be the 378 weatherby, great flat shooting for a large caliber w/ as uch energy as the 458 lott and a lot more than the 458 win. That's my view for what it's worth.
God is Love!

[grayghost]

Hi nrthm: Loud is an understatement! If your not in front of your PH, expect to find him lying on the ground and you defending yourself if any DG attacks. Any muzzle brake I have been around (including shotgun chokes) were absolutely deafning to those nearby. And if you haven't tried shooting the .460 Wea., at moving targets, you may find that recovery time is too slow for most to handle during a charge. Your PH is backing you up for a reason. It is his job to shoot any dangerous game after your first shot if he deems it necessary. Sometimes a man won't admit it to his friends at home, but most DG has a shot or two put in him by the PH. This also applies to our game; Brown, Polar and Grizzly. Not always, but anytime needed. I wouldn't have any problems with a PH backing me up. At least I live to hunt another day and not get stomped into soup. My recent trip to SA yeilded 16 animals in 10 days. All were taken with a .223 and .280. I would have no hesitation pulling the trigger on an Eland with the .280 as long as I had a good shot picture. As I read the previous posts, I have to restate my "one gun" opinion. I would go with the .375 and take appropriate bullets. When you go I would take any standard caliber that you use at home for plains game. Just avoid "ballistic tip" style bullets. Anything well constructed in the bonded or solid copper line will do fine on the plains game. If your going to hunt DG, make sure your comfortable with your .460 before you leave. I saw the price of a box of ammo for the .460 and that was the end of my comfort :) Good hunting, grayghost

[nrthrn_maine_hunter]

grayghost,
I definately agree that they are overly loud and expensive to shoot.  My 30-378 reminds me of that each time I shoot it, especially with the 180gr Barnes "x".  The noise is not unbearabe though, but is louder than without the brake and I do understant where you are coming from.  Just my personal preference and I am partial to my weatherbies.  But like I said, the 378 WBY would give a lot less recoil and is slightly cheaper to shoot, w/ great traj. for a heavy bullet.  There's  my vote for the 1-gun, if both dangerous game and plains game are likely to be hunted.  Take my opinion for what its worth, I am no professional on African hunting by any means, just have my preferences.

[ImpalaAfricanSafaris]

30-06
I am from Zimbabwe, and the 30-06 will do the job wherever and on whatever...180 grain is all you need !! It will handle all the plains Game and the big Cats

[ImpalaAfricanSafaris]

Any questions about why the 30-06 is the gun for you? Ammo, Ammo, Ammo...readily available and always affordable anywhere in the world

[ImpalaAfricanSafaris]

just to clear that up...30-06 on all plains game and the Big Cats........Buff, Eleph, Rhino and Hippo, 375 on up.

[Springbuck]

I appreciate the views of hunters who have travelled to South Africa and Namibia and then re-visit their views.  An important factor that you should never lose sight off is the fact that nearly 80% of all foreign hunters tend to hunt in the bush rather than the open savanah where the 375 has limits.  This has been and will be the reason de etre why an all-round calibre for all hunting conditions have still not been found.  Although the 7x61 and 7x64 can claim good perfomance statistics they simply do not have the stopping power of the 375 and 458.

[grayghost]

Hi nrthrn: good point. Having ones preferred gun in hand is always the first choice. Main focus is take the gun you shoot the best. Good hunting, grayghost

[Marlin917VS]

I think I would take my bow...  I've wanted to go to Africa to hunt for a while.  My goal in life is to get the big 5, and after starting archery hunting, I'm kinda thinking maybe the big 5 with a bow would be fun...  It's probably crazy, but it's only a dream for now.  I need to get out of school and get a good job before I can even think of making that trip, but it's fun to think about.
 
Andy

[grayghost]

I wouldn't say it's crazy at all Marlin: it's been done many times before. I would go asap because it won't get any cheaper. Check into a Buffalo hunt as a first step. It's good to have goals...and dreams. They give us something to look forward to. Good hunting, grayghost

[Springbuck]

I agree with grayghost, has been done.  Very exspensive option.  Do not look blindly at an African Hunt as a big 5 or nothing.  The biggest challenge for most first time foreign hunters remain shot placement, regardless of the size of the calibre.  That is where the challenge lie in an African hunt.  A klipspringer can prove to be just as rewarding than an old dagga boy buffalo.

[Mauserfan in TX]

I guess i'll be the odd-ball. I would love to go on a African Plains-Game hunt. with an 8x57mm Mauser. Can you still get ammo for that one in Africa?

[fiorig]

beware, the 8*57JRS is NOT a superpower munition
I own myself a combination gun O/U 12 gauge -8*57 JRS
perfect for wild boar (120/150lbs) a close range I think that hunting in Africa requires vastly more power
my favorites are a double S/S .;470 Niro express and for those bolt action minded the.416 Rigby
see you later

[periscope_depth]

I read an excellent article in a recent Gun Digest about a guy who built a .400 Brown-Whelen to go to Africa with.

As he stated, the rifle was the friendliest dangerous game rifle you could hope for.

I have never been to Africa, much less hunted Africa...but the .400 Whelen sounds interesting.

[grayghost]

Craig Boddington just wrote about the .400 in the current SCI Journal. He used a Ruger #1 with a new load from Federal (I believe) and says it was perfect on Buff. Evidently the recoil is not bad. Hmmm. grayghost

[grizz1219]

Do we really want a "perfect rifle" for all African game or any where for that matter.... ??? I love having different guns, reloading for different guns and using them on different animals..... it's all part of the experience... if we only had one gun for everything in an area, how boring would it be.......

[utseabeescw]

One has to remember that a lot of African countries have a minimum cal of .375. Better to have and not need that to need and not have. I would venture to guess that more African game has been killed with a Brittish .303 than with any other round, but I'd still take a 375 H&H

[grayghost]

The .416 Rigby is definately a good choice for DG and a lot of PG. It can be up or down loaded to fit the occasion.

[Kiwi Nate]

Well you started one heck of a debate here Neo, one that has been going on ever since man first started pushing lead down barrels.  I am a hunting guide in New Zealand and also research terminal ballistics.  I have taken over 6000 head of game.  In our area we have wild cattle which grow to be very large and are very dangerous. Calibre choice on these animals is affected by several factors, the most infuencial being shot placement.  Some of my clients as well as some local hunters prefer to use their deer rifle on cattle as they intend to only take neck shots.  Typical cartridges are the .308, .30-06 and .270Win.  With premium bullets these cartridges are adequate. Other clients prefer shoulder shots and therefore must use heavier calibres in order to gain superior penetration and wounding.  Be careful about advice from those who use light calibres on large animals as your shooting techniques (shot placement) may result in an entirely different outcome.  As a guide I use either my 9.3 RUM or .375 RUM which are much of a muchness.  The reason I use these big calibres is that I have to  back up clients and do not have the luxury of waiting for the right shot.  
 
A second factor is bullet construction.  Both of my cartridges are too fast at top velocities for best performance,  projectiles are prone to lose too much weight or suffer bullet blow up at velocities of  plus 3000fps.  High velocity is good however in that wounding is broader. Both the 9.3x64 Brenneke and .375H&H push premium bullets out at comfortable speeds without causing excessive stess or risking bullet blow up while producing broad wounds.  These are common sense cartridges which work well on a broad range of game with varied shot placement.  My RUM's are less versitile doing their best work with handloaded Barnes type bullets, I do however like to down load these cartridges to duplicate the  Brenneke and H&H.
 
Recoil is another big factor. If I were recoil shy I would opt for the 9.3x62 or .35 Whelen, both loaded with premium bullets.  It is not too hard to learn to manage the recoil of rifles firing 250-300 grain bullets at velocities of 2600 to 2700fps providing rifle fit is correct and you have plenty of opportunities to practice.
 
Trajectory and accuracy are very important.  Most people don't take the time to set up a medium bore to produce tight groups and it is common to find second hand medium bores that produce groups of around 3MOA, show little wear in the bore and no signs of attention to bedding.  While the 7mm mag is awesome for plains game, your preference towards one gun means that you may be more satisfied with a heavy calibre if you are comfortable shhoting one.  The .375 mentioned by Jay is sound because it has both a flat trajectory for light game as well as wide heavy bullets for large game/ shoulder shooting.  Ammo availability for the .375 worldwide is excellent.  
 
Two guns is a little better still as you can utilise a high velocity/ fast killing 7mm mag for light game. As momentum drops using a medium bore on light animals, you will find kills a little ho hum.
 
Whatever you do, make sure that accuracy is paramount in your choice.  If you buy a .375 H&H, get it set up and tuned for optimum accuracy and don't take no or "can't be done" for an answer.  Its a great feeling to be afield with a medium bore that produces groups of around .9MOA and is sighted for both small and large animals out to 300 yards.
Cheers,  Nathan
www.ballisticstudies.com

[Rick]

I would use either a .375 with 270 gr A-frames or 300 gr TSX for most game and solids for elephant, rhino or hippo.  My other choice would be a .416 of one flavor or another.

[bigrockets]

Hunting lions with small bore rifles is a dangerous proposition. If you hit him and he doesn't drop then you have to contend with a pissed-off really big cat that's wounded and looking for who did it to him. If you hit an Elk and he doesn't go down he usually runs away from you.
 
I wouldn't hunt anything in Africa with less than .458 caliber. Why take the chance? It may be your life if you fail to drop your target. They don't call them dangerous game for nothing. I also thought that African game had caliber restrictions? Never hunted there, but why be under gunned? In this situation it's better to have more gun and not need it than not enough gun and really need it.
 
Just my humble opinion.

[periscope_depth]

There are some great stories of African game hunters who have had great success on large/dangerous game using the 6.5x55 and the 7x57 Mauser using heavy for caliber bullet weights.  (The 6.5 mm using the 160 grn and the 7mm the 175 grn bullets).  

A few things come to mind right away:

Low recoil = precise bullet placement
Very high sectional density= superior penetration
Sub 2,700 fps velocity = less stress on the bullet

No doubt, these blokes were not taking long range shots and my guess is that 90% of these shots were brain shots with maybe 10% being neck/spine shots.

Interesting, no?  

[Jaeger]

Fiorig,
 
I beg to differ - maybe you underestimate your rifle. A good friend of mine, who owns an extensive game farm and hunts a LOT, uses a Heym 8x57JRS / 20ga combination. She (Yes - SHE) has shot game the size of Kudu and Eland with her rifle (1 shot), and I would personally not hesitate to use her rifle on any thin-skinned game I might find. A very understated calibre, that.
 
Pesonally, I use either a .375H&H or a dinky little Frankonia Mauser in .308 Win. I load both with heavy bullets (300gr / 180gr), and THAT might be where the difference lies (in the bushveld at least, where the vegetation is thick and the distances short). Choose your bullet carefully - go for accuracy, controlled expansion and penetration potential. You never know how the ****ed thing is going to present itself! :undecided:
 
For the more open veldt (we have a hugely varied topography), anything from .243, through the 6.5's, 7mm's, .308's and .338's will do just fine. As an aside, I'd STILL load heavy-for-calibre bullets, of the highest quality that will shoot straight in my rifle.

[AZ Shooter Gal]

the PHs I have spoken to have told my my "shpringfeld" if just fine for plains game, and I would not hunt the "big 5", not on purpose

[glen1]

i hear that the 7x57 is fine for african  big game with hot loads and 195gr loads ,if you can shoot a hole in 15mm plate steel you are going to put a hole in 10mm skull bone ,shot placement is the key

[AZ Shooter Gal]

it is funny how the old time hunters of legend used cartridges like the 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser and the 7mm Mauser to great effect on such animals as elephant and cape buffalo yet today these are considered light for plains game. I must presume that elephants and buffalo back then were much easier to kill. I cannot think of any other reason for the perceived need for magnums of .375" and MUCH larger.

[use enough gun]

My best friend has been over to Africa 6 times now and taken pretty much everything except the big cats and rhino. He's used .375, .416 rem, .458 lott, .475, and .500x3-1/4. The last couple times he's used the Lott more than anything else. He's now pretty much hooked on buff and found that the .416 wasn't quit enough in some cases.  Dave

[AZ Shooter Gal]

I doubt that a .458 Lott would have made a difference in what occurred with the .416. The difference between them is incremental. Shot placement in always the key to performance.
However, his confidence in the Lott is worth the effort, for him.

[Brithunter]

it is funny how the old time hunters of legend used cartridges like the 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser and the 7mm Mauser to great effect on such animals as elephant and cape buffalo yet today these are considered light for plains game. I must presume that elephants and buffalo back then were much easier to kill. I cannot think of any other reason for the perceived need for magnums of .375" and MUCH larger.

Actually the 6.5mm's that the British favored were the Mannlicher ones of 6.5x53R and of course it's rimless brother the 6.5x54MS. The rifles the Mdl 1892/ Mdl 1893 that used the rimmed case and the Mannlicher "Packet Loading System" and the Mdls 1900 and the famous Mdl 1903 Schoenauer.

[use enough gun]

I doubt that a .458 Lott would have made a difference in what occurred with the .416. The difference between them is incremental. Shot placement in always the key to performance.
However, his confidence in the Lott is worth the effort, for him.

 Believe what you will but every shot he put in one buff was a killing shot. He put 6 rounds through the heart and lungs with his .416. He said he could see  lung tissue blowing out the off side at the shot. The buff would drop, get up and run for a clump of brush, as they approached it would charge again. It was finally put down with 2 rounds from his .500.
  He's no novice to dangerous game hunting and the one thing he says all the time. After you shoot'em don't shand there admiring your shot, shoot him again! It's one thing to sit behind a computer board and speculate, and it's entirely different to accually be there shooting these critters. He also told me that to compare African game to anything over here doesn't work. Everything over there kills a lot harder.
   Having said that, he hunted with one old gent that had been over there for 30 years. The old guy had once been employed to supply meat for a railroad. He used to sneak up on a buff herd and use a .22 hornet. He'd slip a couple rounds in high in the lungs between the ribs. The buffs just thought they'd been bit by flys and stand there until they bled out and dropped. Dave

[glen1]

Believe what you will but every shot he put in one buff was a killing shot. He put 6 rounds through the heart and lungs with his .416. He said he could see lung tissue blowing out the off side at the shot. The buff would drop, get up and run for a clump of brush, as they approached it would charge again. It was finally put down with 2 rounds from his .500.
He's no novice to dangerous game hunting and the one thing he says all the time. After you shoot'em don't shand there admiring your shot, shoot him again! It's one thing to sit behind a computer board and speculate, and it's entirely different to accually be there shooting these critters. He also told me that to compare African game to anything over here doesn't work. Everything over there kills a lot harder.
Having said that, he hunted with one old gent that had been over there for 30 years. The old guy had once been employed to supply meat for a railroad. He used to sneak up on a buff herd and use a .22 hornet. He'd slip a couple rounds in high in the lungs between the ribs. The buffs just thought they'd been bit by flys and stand there until they bled out and dropped. Dave

the thing is like you say 6 shots to heart and lungs,? why i believe that if you are hunting some thing that can kill you why muck round with heart and lung shots ,cuz when you shoot some thing to kill  it ,you shoot it in its brain ,like the 22hornet puting you shot were you no its going to do the most damage even a deer will run a 100yrds with a heart shot an a big cal ,shoot it in the brain and they dont go 10feet

[use enough gun]

The brain shot on a buff isn't as easy as it seems, even the heavy caliber stuff can and will not get through their heavy horn boss every time. You bounce one off their head like that and you've got a seriously pissed off wounded buff. They can melt into the herd making it extremely difficult and dangerous to finish them. Dave

[glen1]

The brain shot on a buff isn't as easy as it seems, even the heavy caliber stuff can and will not get through their heavy horn boss every time. You bounce one off their head like that and you've got a seriously pissed off wounded buff. They can melt into the herd making it extremely difficult and dangerous to finish them. Dave

 
maybe so but if you use a good  fmj round  it shoold be about 95% kill rate to the head ,some of the old time hunters who killed big game in africa new the game inside out and were to hit them ,thats why they kill some game with cals that pepole today say are to light

[use enough gun]

I was having coffee this afternoon with my buddy and mentioned this post to him. I pretty much rolled his eyes and laughed. He wasn't trying to disparage you but said unless you've been there, and been charged by one or more of these animals and seen what kind of punishment they will absorb and keep coming, you don't know what you're talking about. When they charge, they drop their head, this covers a great deal of their chest area. The horns and bosses will deflect most shots, (this includes solids, and solids is what you use on buff). He uses only the best premium dangerous game bullets.
  On his last trip another friend of mine went with him. He brought along a .375 and a .416. My buddy told him about how hard these things were to kill sometimes and to keep shooting and not to stop to admire his shot. The guy rolled his eyes not quite believing him. that afternoon he get a chance at a nice buff. The buff took 9 400 grain solids in the chest and shoulders to bring him down. They were well placed shots, he never rolled his eyes at my friend again. Dave

[davidlt89]

The brain shot on a buff isn't as easy as it seems,

that I can believe!!!!! I have seen moose here hit by cars and needing to be put down only to have a game warder or state cop put 6-7 shots in the head and see it "not" die. one of my good friends had this task and he said he put shots through the ear, eye, etc..., the animal just kept hanging on. Believe me, moose are not hard to kill, but thier brain is not that big!!! I would take a well placed lung, heart shot anyday over a head shot. I "KNOW" a bullet through the heart is going to kill any animal. God Bless.

[glen1]

I was having coffee this afternoon with my buddy and mentioned this post to him. I pretty much rolled his eyes and laughed. He wasn't trying to disparage you but said unless you've been there, and been charged by one or more of these animals and seen what kind of punishment they will absorb and keep coming, you don't know what you're talking about. When they charge, they drop their head, this covers a great deal of their chest area. The horns and bosses will deflect most shots, (this includes solids, and solids is what you use on buff). He uses only the best premium dangerous game bullets.
On his last trip another friend of mine went with him. He brought along a .375 and a .416. My buddy told him about how hard these things were to kill sometimes and to keep shooting and not to stop to admire his shot. The guy rolled his eyes not quite believing him. that afternoon he get a chance at a nice buff. The buff took 9 400 grain solids in the chest and shoulders to bring him down. They were well placed shots, he never rolled his eyes at my friend again. Dave[/quote
 
you maybe right but a do no pepole who have gone and hunted them and have seen there video footage of there buff been shot and they only fired 1 shot and down they went im not say it dead out right it took a bit to die but wasnt runing round ,only 0ne video of my m8s it took 3 shots but it wasnt charging him round ,not saying that they dont ,why not shot it in the hips and take out its back end then it wood have to drag its front end it wouldnt run fast then or shoot out a front leg that would slow it down and end him with a head shot take out his weak points his legs ,but thats a bit mean i would like to see one of you m8s nine shot videos on you tube ,but hes right about one thing as i have not hunted them i cant realy talk only going off my m8s videos and what he has told me i no he uses barnes banded solids

[glen1]

that I can believe!!!!! I have seen moose here hit by cars and needing to be put down only to have a game warder or state cop put 6-7 shots in the head and see it "not" die. one of my good friends had this task and he said he put shots through the ear, eye, etc..., the animal just kept hanging on. Believe me, moose are not hard to kill, but thier brain is not that big!!! I would take a well placed lung, heart shot anyday over a head shot. I "KNOW" a bullet through the heart is going to kill any animal. God Bless.

what was he shooting the moose with

[use enough gun]

My buddy and other people he has been hunting with have dropped them with one shot but, as he's told me you keep shooting. The problem is they don't always want to die with just one shot, not all the time but enough times to make you pay attention.
   Anyway, it's nice to have forums like this to hear other peoples views and opinions on hunting and shooting. And it's a nice place to meet some real good and interesting people that share a common passion. Dave

[davidlt89]

what was he shooting the moose with

I believe they use .45's.

[AZ Shooter Gal]

Brit, it doesn't matter which6.5 was used. They are all of roughly the same power. The point is that they did use such small caliber and low power rounds to take everything on the planet.

[Daryl (deceased)]

it is funny how the old time hunters of legend used cartridges like the 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser and the 7mm Mauser to great effect on such animals as elephant and cape buffalo yet today these are considered light for plains game. I must presume that elephants and buffalo back then were much easier to kill. I cannot think of any other reason for the perceived need for magnums of .375" and MUCH larger.

I doubt that they were easier to kill.  I probably has more to do with a few of them getting stomped, after not putting the bullet quite where it was supposed to go.
 
I've never been to Africa, but I've shot a lot of various critters.  It's strange in some ways that a bad hit will oft-times kill an animal very quickly; even dropping them in their tracks at time.  Yet a well placed bullet sometimes won't get the same reaction, and the animal takes longer to die.
 
At close range, it doesn't take much time for an animal to stomp the hunter.  A 10 ton elephant that's not quite hit right with the first shot might not give the shooter enough time for another.
 
I've chest shot coyotes with a .243 Win that still ran a few hundred yards before they gave up, yet have sometimes dropped them in their tracks with a "lesser" shot from the same rifle.
 
I know of a few experienced hunters who went to Africa a few years back.  They wrote stories of animals they thought would be easy to kill, yet somehow seemed to have far more will to live than any animal they'd ever hunted before.
 
Those kinds of stories, along with a little hype from experienced hunters who want to jack up their stories a bit to make them more exciting, and so-called "gun writers" (ptooey) building up the newest large magnum all contribute to the huge rifles we have today.
 
Are they needed?  IMO most aren't on this continent.  I'm not sure about Africa, since I've not been there, but I suspect that if I was facing a large, dangerous creature, I'd want more than a 7x57mm mauser in my hands.  Can it do the job?  Of course it can, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet my life on being that lucky.
 
Daryl

[kombi1976]

I think you'd be silly to go to Africa with one rifle if it was less powerful than 9.3x64 or 375 H&H.
9.3x62 has a good reputation as a flexible round but it would be better as a plains game rifle and a dangerous game defence rifle when nothing bigger was on offer.
So I reckon the old 375 H&H would probably be the ideal.
Ammo is available every where, people know it's performance specs, there are loads for long range plains game AND dangerous game.
Rounds like 450/400 NE 3¼" look like a good idea but they are limited to a minimum or 400gr pills and while dangerous game is a consideration in African hunting it isn't the be all and end all.

[glen1]

I think you'd be silly to go to Africa with one rifle if it was less powerful than 9.3x64 or 375 H&H.
9.3x62 has a good reputation as a flexible round but it would be better as a plains game rifle and a dangerous game defence rifle when nothing bigger was on offer.
So I reckon the old 375 H&H would probably be the ideal.
Ammo is available every where, people know it's performance specs, there are loads for long range plains game AND dangerous game.
Rounds like 450/400 NE 3¼" look like a good idea but they are limited to a minimum or 400gr pills and while dangerous game is a consideration in African hunting it isn't the be all and end all.

i think like you say if i was going to africa and could take any gun i wanted i think i would take a 50 bmg and shoot 800gr rounds at 2900 fps now that would but a end to most big game fast

[use enough gun]

In many countries over there military cartrigdes are not legal. The 9.3x62 is smallest legal round allowed in some places. Dave

[AZ Shooter Gal]

well Glen, I think you would get no shots at anything close or moving. You would be pretty much limited to game at some distance, so it would not be spooked by you, and standing still since I think trying to lead an animal with a 25+# rifle would be a bit tricky.

[Steveb]

IMHO .... a 9.3mm. African game has a "rumour/talked about" to be a lot tougher than most game from the rest of the world. Of caus i cannot vouch for this as i have only hunted in africa and cant copare my exprience elsewhere. Some contribute the hardiness on the cape buffalo to the 'Rinderpest' a viral diesease in cattle which in the 1890's in southern africa killed +- 80 to 90 percent of all cattle. Therefore the buffalo were also hard hit as the mortality rate is about90 %. Of course the fittest survive therefor only the hardiest and buff with best genes. Thats one theory to explain the reason buff tend to absorb a lot of bullets from all rifles. The rifle that counts is the one that shoots straight!

[Noyb72]

Although Iv'e been there, I haven't been able to hunt there often enough to be a reference. However, I've spoken to dozens of hunters going in and out of Cape Town and Jo-berg. Hunters are successful in Africa with a crazy aray of rifles. One individual hunted for 10 days with two rifles in the plains. His light gun was a 6mm Rem and his Heavy was a .308!! He had to stop early due to running out of funds for trophy fees.

Another one I've heard alot about is 25-06 it seems to be really popular for sports that want to take the long shots.

Ron

[Bushwack]

I have been using all my life a .270 for the Kalahari, Western Cape and Karoo hunting area (shooting like Red Hartebeest, Springbok, Oryx, Impala, Zebra), .3006 / .308 for the larger animals and more Bushveldt environments (Eland, Blue Wildebeest, Waterbuck, Kudu) and a .375 (Eland, Buffalo, Leopard, Lion, Hippo).