>> 6.5 mm -- is this the "perfect" caliber ?

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

NCBullshooter,
 
I would definitely go with the 6.5-06 in this instance and a barrel length of no less that 24". COL would be 3.400", using a 140gr Sierra GK which is 1.275"in length bullet seating depth would be 0.359". The 6.5-06 neck length is 0.321 which indicates that the bullet will intrude into the powder room by .038" which is essentially nothing. Load From A Disc ballistics program indicates you could expect velocities of just under 3000fps with a load of 54.0grs of H-4831 which is a slightly compressed load. I personally would use H-4831 SC rather than the standard H-4831. They show this is be a pressure rating of about 52,000 CUP and they consider this to be high pressure but just barely. Expect a PM from me sometime today.
 
Ol' John
 
PS.....The 1 in 8" twist sounds a little fast to me.  I will check on that later and post data when I have completed the necessary math.

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

Well, Friends & Neighbors........The cartridges I was waiting for finally arrived (last Friday) and I finally managed to get the pics done, downloaded and edited.
 
First--an overview of all the cartridges...........Here they are!!!!:D
 
Left to Right...........
 
6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Rem BR, 6.5-08 Ackley, 260 Rem, 6.5x55 BJAI, 6.5x55 Swede, 6.5x257 Ackley[260 AAR(ALL AROUND RIFLE)], 6.5x57, 6.5-06 Ackley,6.5-06, 6.5/284, 256 Newton, 264 Winchester Magnum.

[Mark R]

Hondo, pardon my ignorance but what exactly is the 6.5x55BJAI. It sure is aneat looking cartridge.
 
Mark

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

Lets take the little guys first.......................... Left to right.....

6.5 GRENDEL - Bolt face of .453, the same as the 7.62x39 Russian.  This little cartridge has gained great popularity with the High Power competition crowd usually in the AR-10 type rifles.  Velocity in the 2900fps range with the 100-110 grain VLD competition bullets.  
 
6.5 REMINGTON BR - Bolt face of .473, the same as the 308 Winchester.  Originally started as a benchrest cartridge but was lacking the necessary accuracy to be competitive.
 
Both of these cartridges have similiar case capacities, the BR having the slight edge.  As a hunting cartridge best with bullets of 100grain or less.  The 6.5 Rem BR was the cartridge I selected for the other thread on building a rifle using the Chas Daly Mini-Mauser.

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

The next bunch fit the short or medium lenght actions.................
 
.260 REMINGTON - A cartridge for the short actions. Powder capacity about the same as the 6.5x55 Swede. In modern heat-treaded actions you can expect the following velocities.
...85 grain...3600fps.........120 grain....3100fps....140 grain....2820fps.
 
6.5-08 ACKLEY IMPROVED - (260 AI) - Another for the short actions. The benefits of the minimum taper and 40 degree shoulder of the Ackley design are slight increase in velocity but you gain less bolt thrust and case life longevity. You can expect velocities of.......
....85 grain...3700fps.....120 grain....3250fps........140 grain...2960fps.
 
6.5x55 SWEDE...A cartridge designed over 100 years ago and now going strong. Factory ammo is pretty well down loaded. This cartridge really needs to be handloaded and used in modern day actions of suitable strength.
.....85grain...3650fps.....120 grain......3120fps......140 grain....2950fps.
 
6.5x55 BJAI (Bob Jourdan Ackley Improved). Bob Jourdan, a scribe of Precision Shooting Magazine, developed this Ackley version about 1992 as P O Ackley never did an improved version of the Swede. All the Ackley Improved virtues apply here also.
...85 grain...3745fps.....120 grain.......3275fps........140 grain....3020fps.
 
6.5x57 MAUSER - Since the brass for this cartridge is hard to get here in the states, you will find most rifles are set up for the 6.5x257 as 257 Roberts brass is obtainable. As I understand it the 6.5x57 Mauser factory ammo will not chamber in a rifle chambered for the 6.5x257.
....85 grain...3700fps....120 grain.....3215fps......140 grain....2995fps.
 
260 AAR (ALL AROUND RIFLE) - This is the 257 Roberts Ackley Improved necked up to 6.5. This cartridge has probably been around since the late 1940's and was quite popular at one time. You won't go wrong if you choose this old-timer.
....85 grain.....3765fps.....120 grain....3295fps........140 grain....3045fps
 
Oh - and by the way.....These velocities are theoretical from a load program at approximately 54-55,000 CUP and apply to a 24" barrel. More to come...........

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

Here is the final batch of cartridges. All suitable for long actions of the 30-06 length. Of course you will need a magnum bolt face for the .264 WinMag.
 
6.5x06 - I personally use 25-06 brass necked up to 6.5 as that is the quickest/easiest way. My personal rifle was build back in the early 1960's and then I used 270 brass necked down and trimmed to '06 length. Better bullet selection makes it my choice over a 270 or the 25-06. Loves H-4831 or AA3100 powder for all bullet weights.
.....85 grain....3780fps.....120 grain....3249........140 grain.....3040fps.
 
6.5x06 ACKLEY IMPROVED - A slight gain in velocity over the 6.5x06 with the usual Ackley design attributes.
....85 grain.....3816fps......120 grain...3300fps......140 grain...3120fps.
 
264 WINCHESTER MAGNUM - necked down .338 WinMag. First introduced in 1958 or 59 in the Winchester Model 70 Westerner w/26" stainless steel barrel. Advertised velocities were a little inflated and received some bad press early on. A little 'twitchy' finding good accurate loads with the powders available back then. My experience with this cartridge was not good and I have held a bias until recently. New slower powders and MUCH better bullet selection has re-invigorated this ol' blaster back to renewed interest and acceptance.
klallen--your personal observations on this one will be appreciated. Still burns too much powder to suit me.........but that doesn't diminish its ability to push everything faster.
....85 grain....3991fps.....120 grain.....3460fps.......140 grain....3265fps.
 
6.5/284 - This cartridge is currently the favorite for the High Power Long Range competitors and in the hands of shooters like Michelle Gallagher perfect scores with high -X- counts at 1,000 yards are attainable. A shooter/hunter friendly cartridge.
....85 grain.....3870fps........120 grain....3270fps......140 grain....3055fps.
 
.256 NEWTON....The grand-daddy of all the 6.5 caliber high intensity cartridges. Developed by Charles Newton around 1915...thats right..1915. Velocities achievable with todays modern powders do exceed what the original Newton was capable. Brass can be made from '06 cases as I understand it but it takes forming dies along with custom made loading dies. The particular cartridge pictured is at least 70 years old as commercial ammo ceased in 1935.
.....85 grain....3795fps......120 grain.....3260fps.......140 grain.....3005fps.
 
That pretty well covers it, friends & neighbors. Hope you found all of this informative.
I certainly enjoyed the research and acquiring some new cartridges for the collection.
 
Ol' John (with tired fingers and a pain between my shoulders from hunching in front of the PC.)
 
:D :D :D

[klallen]

Boy, that one in the middle sure is a perty looking creature.  ;o)

[kombi1976]

You just love anything with a belt, Klallen.....
But seriously, that was an excellent set of posts and pics 'Ol John, so much so that I compiled you pics and words onto a word file so I could look at it again easily.
Unfortunately I could only credit it to 'Ol John on www.thehunterslife.com but if you p-message your full name, John, I'll credit it properly as I can see a point in the future when friends may well ask me what the hell I'm on about when I talk about some obscure but excellent 6.5 cartridge.
After 6 years at uni and life as a high school teacher few things are more distasteful to me than plagiarism. :frown
Thanks once again for your efforts.

[gitano]

Yeoman's work there John. (Where's that applause emoticon when you need it?)
 
The BJAI does look interesting, but until you get to the Win Mag they all look pretty good to me. Hate to look a gift horse in the mouth, (but I will anyway :) ), how about some velocity data for Grendel and BR with an 85 grain bullet. Also, do you know of any bullets for the 6.5 between 85 and 100 grains?
 
Paul

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

Yeoman's work there John. (Where's that applause emoticon when you need it?)
 
The BJAI does look interesting, but until you get to the Win Mag they all look pretty good to me. Hate to look a gift horse in the mouth, (but I will anyway :) ), how about some velocity data for Grendel and BR with an 85 grain bullet. Also, do you know of any bullets for the 6.5 between 85 and 100 grains?
 
Paul

Thanks amigo.....it ain't work if you are having fun! For info on the Grendel, go to www.6.5grendel.com/forum . It has slightly less case capacity than the 6.5 BR so velocities should be pretty close. I will go and check out LFAD for the 85 grain bullet but based on my only load checked for the 6.5 BR using the 100gr bullet, 2900fps from a 22" barrel. Possibly 3100fps or there-abouts! Bullets available between 85 to 100 would be the Speer 90gr HP-TNT and the Nosler 95gr VMAX. I will play with the load program later today and get back to ya!
 
Ol' John...

[sakorick]

after reading each and every post in this thread....no... the 6.5 is not the perfect caliber. The 6.5x'06 seems to get in the top 10. Regards, Rick.:D

[klallen]

You just love anything with a belt, Klallen

Not true, KOMBI1976. 8 of 11 (soon to be 12) cartridges that I own lack a belt of any kind. Really, I've no attaction to a belted case. The attraction's for performance. In this group of 6.5's that John has taken the time to put together with great pics and educational descriptions, there's a performance leader and then the others in the middle of the pack. Now, I'm not saying the middle of the pack cartridges aren't quality cartridges; they just aren't me and they aren't the one that I've owned and hunted with over the past couple years. That "one" would indeed be the 6.5 cartridge sporting the sexy belt ;o) . Later. >> klallen

[kombi1976]

The attraction's for performance. In this group of 6.5's that John has taken the time to put together with great pics and educational descriptions, there's a performance leader and then the others in the middle of the pack. Now, I'm not saying the middle of the pack cartridges aren't quality cartridges; they just aren't me and they aren't the one that I've owned and hunted with over the past couple years.

That kinda was my point.
The way I judge performance is by taking the MV, ME & actual hitting power and putting them up against the recoil, muzzle flash and powder capacity.
At the end of the day accuracy is as good as the rifle and the shooter so in some ways it's moot point.
But to get back to my argument, I think the performance leaders in any cal are those that with the least discomfort to the shooter & the most efficient use of powder still fling a decent sized bullet with good hitting power to dispatch a wide range of game.
If your preference is for long shots, as everyone knows your's is, Klallen, then the rules of performance change a little.
But, much like comparing cars by their power to weight ratio instead of the pure cubic inches, there is a lot to be said by efficent use of powder rather than large use of powder, however effective it may be.
O.k., got that off my chest.
But yeah, I bet the Win Mag is fun to fire. :D

[CAfrica]

Yeoman's work there John. (Where's that applause emoticon when you need it?)
 
The BJAI does look interesting, but until you get to the Win Mag they all look pretty good to me. Hate to look a gift horse in the mouth, (but I will anyway :) ), how about some velocity data for Grendel and BR with an 85 grain bullet. Also, do you know of any bullets for the 6.5 between 85 and 100 grains?
 
Paul

Gitano,
 
GS Custom make a 95gr HV.  I have purchased a packet and it is on my list of things to try in my 6.5-06.  Sigh, so many things I want to do, so little time.
 
C

[klallen]

Evening KOMBI1976  >>  You're more then welcome to quantify performance in any manor you need to justify your cartridge purchases.  We all do that.  Me personally, I tend to keep things real simple.  Being of a ballistic mindset, regardless of varmint or big game hunting, I ask only two questions when considering a cartridge     ...     ballistically, what does it have to offer me and can it do this accurately.  That's it.  Real simple.  If I were to force myself to adopt a mindset where cartridge efficiency had hightened importance, my be-all, end-all desire would be to get the most ballistic performance I could muster out of the least amount of powder burned.  Sounds peachy, on the surface, but not acceptable.  I will not argue that this is certainly one way of viewing things and respect those that think along these lines, but for me, it just doesn't make sense.  If my goal be optimum ballistic performance, why have concessions that only limit my ability to achieve the goal.  No.  Unacceptable.  I do want the most ballistic performance I can muster; I get there because I don't care how much powder is burned to do it.  I always seem to get involved in interesting conversations when the standard brigade starts chatting about the 7.82 Warbird.  I'll be the first to admit it takes no small amount of powder to get a 180 gr. bullet moving along at over 3500 fps from a 26" barrel.  When they hear exactly how much it takes, the craziness begins.  Recoil.  Efficiency.  Muzzle Blast.  Etc.   Etc.   Etc.  It's all thrown out there.  But in the end, as I've said, things are kept real simple with me.  I've got the flattest shooting .308 on the market, it hits game very hard at all ranges I'm comfortable shooting and I can handle the thing extremely accurately.  As with my Warbird purchase, if you're looking for optimum in any performance category, you don't make excuses not to reach it.  You simply go out and achieve it.  That's what I choose to do.  If folks can get by with less, I sincerely applaude them for doing so.  I don't see any value in hitting the field with less of anything.  I'll take as many advantages stalked in my corner as I can.  Hunting in my neck of the woods tends to be hard enough as it is.  I ain't hobbling myself with efficiency.  Chat with ya later.  >>  klallen
 
ps     ...     understand, these comments are in direct relation to the wide open areas that I most often hunt and the cartridges designed best for these areas.  I make no comment on what those who don't see shots over 200 yds. would deem important.