.17 HMR -vs- .22WMR

[Hun44Calif]

 Hey People -  why the big grand hype of this .17 HMR cartridge. I recently (yesterday- 3/31) went out shooting some ground squirrels with a crony, he using the .17 HMR, and me with the much older .22 Win. Mag. Rimfire. We traded weapons off throughout the hunt, and both of us thought the .22 WMR a better over all round. The least wind seems to deflect the .17HMR. It does stop small vermin cold - when you connect - but no more surely than the .22WMR. Advertised velocities are 2550 for the 17gr 17HMR bullet, and 2200 for the 38gr .22WMR (CCI TNT Hollowpt). I dunno. I think this 17 Hummer is a whole bunch of Bull.....Any Thoughts?

[m gardner]

I agree that the 22 mag kills better at longer ranges and really isn't that hard to hit with. The 17 is a fun new toy though. We have fun they make money to invest in new research to make new fun toys for us. As long as we have the money there's no harm in it. But alot of the new products are more hype than real improvement. This is good because I can buy peoples old toys ( which they sell to get the money for the latest and greatest ) for little next to nothing and have the old new toys to play with. God bless and good shooting.

[sav17]

Hey People - why the big grand hype of this .17 HMR cartridge. I recently (yesterday- 3/31) went out shooting some ground squirrels with a crony, he using the .17 HMR, and me with the much older .22 Win. Mag. Rimfire. We traded weapons off throughout the hunt, and both of us thought the .22 WMR a better over all round. The least wind seems to deflect the .17HMR. It does stop small vermin cold - when you connect - but no more surely than the .22WMR. Advertised velocities are 2550 for the 17gr 17HMR bullet, and 2200 for the 38gr .22WMR (CCI TNT Hollowpt). I dunno. I think this 17 Hummer is a whole bunch of Bull.....Any Thoughts?

Works for me:)Same cartridge smaller bullet;)

[Hun44Calif]

 sav17 - Congratulations on that fine Red Fox. Here in California we have no Red Fox, only the Gray variety. You bagged that with .17 HMR? How did you score - bait, calling, or dogs? I'd like to try to bag a Gray and was looking for perhaps a few pointers on how Fox hunting is accomplished - using my .22 WMR, of course!:D

[sav17]

Hi Hun,

oops!! that sounds a little too friendly:o :D
Took that one with the 17hmr at around 90 yards with a head shot,was well pleased with myself.The red fox tends to follow regular tracks from its den to feeding areas,so if you study your area and find out where they are ,food sources etc sometimes you can ambush them,I usually go early morning or evening and put out a rabbit carcasse or if you can get hold of one a sheep or lamb,we get a lot of activity around one of the farms I hunt that breeds sheep.
A popular way of hunting the fox in the uk is at night with a lamp or night vision sights and calling them in on the guns as you would for coyotes.
The one in the photograph was down to pure luck more than anything,it was quite a cold morning but the sun was shining and as I was approaching the hunting area I came across it basking in the sun on the edge of the woodland area,it was so intent on catching a few morning rays it was totally oblivious of me until the Vmax hit it just in front of the ear,never knew what hit it, just rolled over.
I dont know a lot about your grey, wether or not it has the same habits as the red,but I should think its similar,look for areas with either rabbit or a good small rodent population,find their tracks,put on your camo and hide up and wait,a distressed rabbit call usually sparks off their curiosity and brings them into range.
I freeze complete rabbits ,when i get some,and thaw them out the night before I go hunting and then open them up and lay them out as bait, try and stake it down though because I have seen them run in grab it and dissapear before you can get a shot off.
I went out a while ago and staked out a still born lamb carcasse saw a fox come in went straight by the carcasse picked up a live lamb and dissapeared:confused:
Hope this helps ,let me know how you get on;)
Had another nice one last week with the 223 rem,can drop them from a bit further away with that:rolleyes: pic below
Your friend........................Richie

[Hun44Calif]

sav17 - Thanks for the info - it sounds like a most logical and effective means of hunting. Here in California we are not allowed to use bait for most species, but I believe our local gray fox are considered "vermin" and thus fair game. On a side note, a fellow Briton of yours, Brithunter, recently told me that only the traditional "horse and hound" Foxhunt has been banned in the U. K. Glad to hear that at least you may still pursue them. On a side note, a freind of mine owns a very old Bolt Action rifle in a very strange caliber I assume to be of British origin - .318 Westley Richards. Is this a common British chambering? We have been unsuccessfully trying to locate some ammunition for it here. We struck out at our most recent gun show and are still hunting for it. Any information you could provide on this caliber would be appreciated. Thank You!:cool:

[Gmoney]

Greys are much more aggressive than reds and if showing themselves during calling it will usually be within the first 5 minutes.....I've had them on me before I can even get my light hooked up.....do a first shine literally 5 seconds after starting the call......Reds are much more cautious and will usually take much longer to come in....sometimes 30+ min.....greys will also hang around much longer than a red....in case you can't get a shot, in case you miss...etc.....reds usually come in once slowly and leave very quickly.........

[sav17]

sav17 - Thanks for the info - it sounds like a most logical and effective means of hunting. Here in California we are not allowed to use bait for most species, but I believe our local gray fox are considered "vermin" and thus fair game. On a side note, a fellow Briton of yours, Brithunter, recently told me that only the traditional "horse and hound" Foxhunt has been banned in the U. K. Glad to hear that at least you may still pursue them. On a side note, a freind of mine owns a very old Bolt Action rifle in a very strange caliber I assume to be of British origin - .318 Westley Richards. Is this a common British chambering? We have been unsuccessfully trying to locate some ammunition for it here. We struck out at our most recent gun show and are still hunting for it. Any information you could provide on this caliber would be appreciated. Thank You!:cool:

Hi HUN 44,
The horse and hound thing extends over a lot of new legislation virtually banning all hunting where dogs are allowed to kill the prey we are now restricted to only hunting rabbit with dogs and then only with a limited number, no pack hunting at all,there are people in this country with nothing better to do ,it will be us next there is even a movement to ban fishing on grounds of cruelty:confused: .
I am really sorry I am unable to help you with your Westley Richards query try giving brithunter a PM I am sure he will be able to help
You take care now,your friend..................Richie

[sav17]

Greys are much more aggressive than reds and if showing themselves during calling it will usually be within the first 5 minutes.....I've had them on me before I can even get my light hooked up.....do a first shine literally 5 seconds after starting the call......Reds are much more cautious and will usually take much longer to come in....sometimes 30+ min.....greys will also hang around much longer than a red....in case you can't get a shot, in case you miss...etc.....reds usually come in once slowly and leave very quickly.........

Hi G,
you got a photo of a gray,never seen one,are they the same size as our reds?
thanks....................Richie

[Gmoney]

They are roughly the same size......but shorter fur.

[rockinbbar]

The greys vary greatly in size in different areas. The ones I've seen here are quite a bit smaller than the ones I saw in Texas......But, everything is bigger in Texas!;)

[Gmoney]

Really?  Your coyotes are huge compared to ours......I killed some runts this year...if ours are bigger than yours we'd have to call yours feral cats...:)

[Mark Kaiser]

If I were to choose I would go with the .22 wmr just because of the wieght difference. I think the .17 is a great caliber but the wmr I like the most out of the two.
 
good huntin,
markis

[sav17]

The greys vary greatly in size in different areas. The ones I've seen here are quite a bit smaller than the ones I saw in Texas......But, everything is bigger in Texas!;)

Hi Rockin,
The UK red is the same,I think it depends on their range and the availability of different prey,the ones around the sheep farms which tend to feed a lot on carrion,dead sheep etc seem to grow larger than the ones that feed on rodent and rabbit,then we get the urban variety that feed mostly from trash cans,its the rodent feeders that always seem to be in the best condition mind you,they are the ideal ones if you go for pelts slightly smaller but in much better condition,also much harder to hunt but worth it
take care now...................Richie
By the way that grey of yours is one sharp looking animal,I would love to try and outwit and bring one of them down;)

[sav17]

If I were to choose I would go with the .22 wmr just because of the wieght difference. I think the .17 is a great caliber but the wmr I like the most out of the two.
 
good huntin,
markis

Hi Mark,
hornady do a 20grn hollow point bullet the XTP now for the 17 which gives you that extra bit of weight and works fine,if you get a chance give them a try:cool:
Your friend.........................Richie

[Mark Kaiser]

O ya I heard about thos, my friend bought some and he didnt like how they shot. But im guessen it was his gun because he had them sighted in for the .17 grainers so ya that would a really good wieght for larger varmits such as rabbit and foxes.
 
 
your friend,
mark

[sav17]

O ya I heard about thos, my friend bought some and he didnt like how they shot. But im guessen it was his gun because he had them sighted in for the .17 grainers so ya that would a really good wieght for larger varmits such as rabbit and foxes.
 
 
your friend,
mark

Hi Mark,
I had to rezero my rifle when I  changed from the 17 grainers,coz the point of impact changed quite dramatically.
I am finding the xtp,s much better now because the dont do so much internal damage to the meat,I  found that the little Vmax rendered rabbits virtually inedable even with a head shot because of the excess bruising,with the xtp,s you get a clean kill and an exit wound with nowhere near as much damage;)
Good hunting your friend..............................Richie

[Hitekhunter]

Well,  I finally had to go and get a .17 HMR just to see what all the hype is about!  Actually I was sold as soon as I saw the cute little VMax Hornady and Remington bullets (V-shok for Federal)  It's a blast to shoot.  Sounds like a little gun trying to be a big gun!  Actually I thought it sounded like when you shoot a 22 long rifle into a culvert...(not that I've ever done such a thing....)  They are extremely accurate - 3/4" groups at 100 yds. Unless there is any kind of wind!  With a 10 mph cross wind, my 3/4" group moved 2 1/2" to the left with a 10mph cross wind from the right at 100yds.
The ammo is cheap enough....$8.97 for CCI hollow points, $9.97 for Hornady and Remington vmax.  I bought a Savage model 93R-F bolt with a synthetic stock and the target barrel.  Like I said, it's a blast to shoot and it really tears up the small game.  I'm really leary about shooting anything as big as a coyote, but fox - with a well placed shot would be dead meat!

[sav17]

Hi Hitek,
 
see I told you. Got fed up of preaching,its a wicked little round,if you can place it right it does the business my savage will put 10 rounds inside a 1" square at a 100 yards at the range every time and I aint no top class shot the rifle makes me look good;)
GOOD HUNTING.............................Richie
P.S get your barrel screw cut and put a moderator on it and you will find its the best small varmint destroying machine you can get;)

[YoteBuster]

In my experience, the 17HMR is much better than the lumbering 22maggie. The HRM, acts much more like a high velocity round than the maggie. I certainly would not reccommend it for predators much larger than fox or bobcats, but tell that to the 20 something coyotes Ive wacked with it:)
  The maggie just doesn't have the velocity and expansion of the HMR, and more often than not, pencils thru coyotes hit with it, whereas the HMR will pop in thru the rib cage, and disrupt like a normal high velocity bullet....great little round in my opinion.

[Gmoney]

I have found the exact opposite than the things you have found Yote buster......a 22 mag in my opinion is a lot better on coon to fox sized game than an HMR is....I could not trade my HMR away fast enough...I could hardly anchor a coon with an HMR let alone a fox or even a yote....not trying to stir the pot just stating my experiences....

[YoteBuster]

Yep, different experiences I guess? Ive never popped a coon, you havent shot a coyote with one....anecdotal evidence it's called:)
  I'll stick to my conclusions, the 17HMR is a bit better cartridge than the old maggie.

[Daryl (deceased)]

Greg,
 
You ever go trolling for fish?
 

 
Daryl

[Gmoney]

Every now and then.....:)

[WHITETAIL HUNTER]

My experince with .17 HMR are nothing to brag about, the 22 was better on foxes, only cause I could get them closer. But for what it's worth a 22 maggie with a bull barrel does a preety good job on yotes too, just have to get them closer then 150 yrds.

[sav17]

Hi All,

I think by now everyone knows I am a fan of the little 17 bullet I have said it before and I will say it again same cartridge as the 22 mag just slightly smaller faster bullet,I find it works fine on the UK critters as long as your careful where you put it;)

Good hunting .......................................Richie

[Daryl (deceased)]

Richie,
 
As much as I likely seem to dislike the .17 HMR, I actually believe that it's a neat little round.
 
My dislike for it actually comes from all the hype that seems to go around the 'net about it.  Folks claim that it's the cat's meow for animals as big as coyotes and even larger, and the fact is that it's really not suitable for reliably taking anything much tougher than a fox.  It'll kill larger critters, but I know for a fact that there have been a lot of animals needlessly wounded and not recovered because someone saw it on the 'net and just had to go see what their new latest and greatest, super duper, read all about it on the net and in the gun rags rifle would do on "larger animals".
 
The cartridge is what it is, and it won't "magically" kill anything.  It shoots a very light bullet at medium velocity, and should be used appropriately.  
 
I cringe when I see folks bragging about it's "high velocity", cuz it just isn't all that fast.  I use a .17 Remington for coyotes, and shoot a 25 grain bullet at around 3800 fps with a fairly mild load.  Even at that I have to place my bullets very precisely, and rimfires shooting smaller bullets at 1300-1500 fps slower just don't compare.
 
Nothing against the cartridge; I just don't see it as anything all that special.  It is what it is and nothing more, and there's nothing "magical" about it...no matter how much it gets hyped up.
 
Daryl

[YoteBuster]

Im not sure anyone touts it as a suitable coyote cartridge Kiyote, only that it will perform better on coyotes than the 22 mag, or at least thats the arguement Ive seen discussed? But, I will correct you on the the velocity point, it's way beyond 1300-1500 fps, the HMR pushes that little pill at close to 2600 fps....not to shabby for "what it is" as you say.
I always make it a point to mention it is not what a guy needs for coyote hunting, only that if you shoot right, like you should with any rifle, it will certainly dump a coyote., and I know this becasue Ive ignored the nay sayers on the net, and actually gone out and shot a bunch to see for myself. Most coyotes I shot were at average calling range, 20-40 yards, and they piled up just like I hit them with the bigger stuff. Longest poke was 85 yards, facing shot, tipped over backwards, quivered and expired. Have had two that were runners, but that was my error not the cartridge, just hit to far back on a mover. Same results that would have occured if I had used my 17 rem or 223. There are lots of guys that are relagated to rimfire only areas, and this is where the HMR will work far better than a 22LR or mag. NOthing kills "magically"....nothing.
 
Edit: cursing is not allowed on this board.  Please post accordingly.

[rockinbbar]

Yotebuster,

I think you mis-understood AzKiote on the velocity thing...
He was saying that the .17 hmr was 13-1500 fps SLOWER that the .17 Rem...

I agree about the hype that was created about the HMR....

Just last year we had a feller on here that was bragging that he could shoot & kill an elk at 300 yards with a 17 HMR, cause he could hit a nickle every time at 200 yards with his....LOL.

Certain experiences AND "inexperiences" with the HMR has lead people to belive that you can get centerfire results with a rimfire cartridge....

In my experience though there is no "magic" to any rimfire caliber....When the chips are down, and I have a yote problem to deal with, I'll pull out the ol' .223....
Those 55 gr Ballistic Tips will take the wind out of thier sails past 300 yards everytime.

I think the HMR will eventually settle into it's niche as more people shoot & use the gun afield....In my opinion it is optimum on game no bigger than a fox at ranges out to 125-150 yards. It is very marginal on yotes to 100 yards.....and then I'd want a head or neck shot.

Is "better" than a .22 lr? Probably.....But the cost of shooting it is way more as well....

I still prefer my .22 mag on heavier stuff than rabbits though.....

Rockin'

[Daryl (deceased)]

coyotebuster,
 
Please read my post again.
 
Rockin' is right...3800 fps - 2600 fps = 1200 fps slower than my 17 Rem, and I CAN push that little bullet faster than I do.  As I said, the .17 HMR pushes a tiny bullet at medium velocity, and I just don't find it all that impressive.
 
It's funny that the folks I know THAT DO KNOW what they are talking about when killing coyotes won't touch a .17 HMR for shooting them.
 
I know of one fella who kills a BUNCH of coyotes every year that tried the .17 HMR.  He's one of the best shots I know, and is well known for his shooting skills.  He shot 12 coyotes with the HMR, of which 7 died instantly, and 5 ran off to never be recovered.  He also shot a close range bobcat that took off for a short distance, stopped, and started sneaking back in on the caller!  The second shot killed it, but the first shot didn't even seem to phase it.
 
If this guy says it's so, it's so.  He has nothing to gain by bragging, and hoped that the .17 HMR might make a good fur gun.  He won't use it for that purpose any more, simply because it doesn't work to his satisfaction.
 
You admit that you made an error in shooting, and that's nothing out of the ordinary.  Everyone makes a mistake now and then, and a proper caliber will give you an edge when the chips are down.
 
Use what you will, but no one's convincing me that the .17 HMR is a coyote cartridge.  It just isn't.
 
Daryl

[Gmoney]

Well said Rockin and Az......Barry we must be surveying up a storm:)....   my thoughts exactly guys.....very capable of killing a coyote and larger but I want dead everytime and the HMR just doesn't deliver this no matter who is shooting......But like I said different strokes for different folks.....but I want dead......

[sav17]

Hi All,

Its me again,my views on the 17hmr are purely my own and I dont mean any offence,the coyote shooting doesnt equate in my neck of the woods coz the largest predator we have is the red fox.I do not deliberately take the 17hmr on foxing trips always use my 223 win,but for the smaller vermin the 17 hmr works well and can take a fox if the oppurtunity arises and the shot is viable.
I missed out on the hype on the 17hmr so bought it on merit not on the journalistic view,my main dislike of the 22lr was its tendency to ricochet which could be very dangerous in some of the areas I am asked to shoot.
I have mentioned previously one of the farms I shoot has only clearance for rimfire, so the 17hmr seemed like the best alternative,I have yet to get a 17grn vmax or 20grn xtp bounce.
I realise that the velocity of the bullet is not quite as quick as the 17rem but 2,550f.p.s is quite respectable for a rimfire.
To put things in perspective I use mine as a vermin control tool on small farms with footpaths and and public roads travelling through them,to control rabbit,rat ,grey squirrel,corvid species and pigeon so now maybe you will see why I think my 17hmr is the tool for the job.
I agree with you whole heartedly that it is not a big hitter,  I take great care on the shot placement when taking a fox, and would not consider anything outside 100yrds(I have posted photos of one of the foxes I have taken)but used as it should be you cannot fault the fast little rimmie;)
Good hunting...................................Richie

[sav17]

Hi YOTE,
There are lots of guys that are relagated to rimfire only areas, and this is where the HMR will work far better than a 22LR or mag. NOthing kills "magically"....nothing.
 
Hear Hear,thank you my friend;)
 
.......................................Richie

[Gmoney]

Well said Richie....

[sav17]

well thanks G
 ...............................Richie