one caliber for africa

[AZ Shooter Gal]

I doubt that a .458 Lott would have made a difference in what occurred with the .416. The difference between them is incremental. Shot placement in always the key to performance.
However, his confidence in the Lott is worth the effort, for him.

[Brithunter]

it is funny how the old time hunters of legend used cartridges like the 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser and the 7mm Mauser to great effect on such animals as elephant and cape buffalo yet today these are considered light for plains game. I must presume that elephants and buffalo back then were much easier to kill. I cannot think of any other reason for the perceived need for magnums of .375" and MUCH larger.

Actually the 6.5mm's that the British favored were the Mannlicher ones of 6.5x53R and of course it's rimless brother the 6.5x54MS. The rifles the Mdl 1892/ Mdl 1893 that used the rimmed case and the Mannlicher "Packet Loading System" and the Mdls 1900 and the famous Mdl 1903 Schoenauer.

[use enough gun]

I doubt that a .458 Lott would have made a difference in what occurred with the .416. The difference between them is incremental. Shot placement in always the key to performance.
However, his confidence in the Lott is worth the effort, for him.

 Believe what you will but every shot he put in one buff was a killing shot. He put 6 rounds through the heart and lungs with his .416. He said he could see  lung tissue blowing out the off side at the shot. The buff would drop, get up and run for a clump of brush, as they approached it would charge again. It was finally put down with 2 rounds from his .500.
  He's no novice to dangerous game hunting and the one thing he says all the time. After you shoot'em don't shand there admiring your shot, shoot him again! It's one thing to sit behind a computer board and speculate, and it's entirely different to accually be there shooting these critters. He also told me that to compare African game to anything over here doesn't work. Everything over there kills a lot harder.
   Having said that, he hunted with one old gent that had been over there for 30 years. The old guy had once been employed to supply meat for a railroad. He used to sneak up on a buff herd and use a .22 hornet. He'd slip a couple rounds in high in the lungs between the ribs. The buffs just thought they'd been bit by flys and stand there until they bled out and dropped. Dave

[glen1]

Believe what you will but every shot he put in one buff was a killing shot. He put 6 rounds through the heart and lungs with his .416. He said he could see lung tissue blowing out the off side at the shot. The buff would drop, get up and run for a clump of brush, as they approached it would charge again. It was finally put down with 2 rounds from his .500.
He's no novice to dangerous game hunting and the one thing he says all the time. After you shoot'em don't shand there admiring your shot, shoot him again! It's one thing to sit behind a computer board and speculate, and it's entirely different to accually be there shooting these critters. He also told me that to compare African game to anything over here doesn't work. Everything over there kills a lot harder.
Having said that, he hunted with one old gent that had been over there for 30 years. The old guy had once been employed to supply meat for a railroad. He used to sneak up on a buff herd and use a .22 hornet. He'd slip a couple rounds in high in the lungs between the ribs. The buffs just thought they'd been bit by flys and stand there until they bled out and dropped. Dave

the thing is like you say 6 shots to heart and lungs,? why i believe that if you are hunting some thing that can kill you why muck round with heart and lung shots ,cuz when you shoot some thing to kill  it ,you shoot it in its brain ,like the 22hornet puting you shot were you no its going to do the most damage even a deer will run a 100yrds with a heart shot an a big cal ,shoot it in the brain and they dont go 10feet

[use enough gun]

The brain shot on a buff isn't as easy as it seems, even the heavy caliber stuff can and will not get through their heavy horn boss every time. You bounce one off their head like that and you've got a seriously pissed off wounded buff. They can melt into the herd making it extremely difficult and dangerous to finish them. Dave

[glen1]

The brain shot on a buff isn't as easy as it seems, even the heavy caliber stuff can and will not get through their heavy horn boss every time. You bounce one off their head like that and you've got a seriously pissed off wounded buff. They can melt into the herd making it extremely difficult and dangerous to finish them. Dave

 
maybe so but if you use a good  fmj round  it shoold be about 95% kill rate to the head ,some of the old time hunters who killed big game in africa new the game inside out and were to hit them ,thats why they kill some game with cals that pepole today say are to light

[use enough gun]

I was having coffee this afternoon with my buddy and mentioned this post to him. I pretty much rolled his eyes and laughed. He wasn't trying to disparage you but said unless you've been there, and been charged by one or more of these animals and seen what kind of punishment they will absorb and keep coming, you don't know what you're talking about. When they charge, they drop their head, this covers a great deal of their chest area. The horns and bosses will deflect most shots, (this includes solids, and solids is what you use on buff). He uses only the best premium dangerous game bullets.
  On his last trip another friend of mine went with him. He brought along a .375 and a .416. My buddy told him about how hard these things were to kill sometimes and to keep shooting and not to stop to admire his shot. The guy rolled his eyes not quite believing him. that afternoon he get a chance at a nice buff. The buff took 9 400 grain solids in the chest and shoulders to bring him down. They were well placed shots, he never rolled his eyes at my friend again. Dave

[davidlt89]

The brain shot on a buff isn't as easy as it seems,

that I can believe!!!!! I have seen moose here hit by cars and needing to be put down only to have a game warder or state cop put 6-7 shots in the head and see it "not" die. one of my good friends had this task and he said he put shots through the ear, eye, etc..., the animal just kept hanging on. Believe me, moose are not hard to kill, but thier brain is not that big!!! I would take a well placed lung, heart shot anyday over a head shot. I "KNOW" a bullet through the heart is going to kill any animal. God Bless.

[glen1]

I was having coffee this afternoon with my buddy and mentioned this post to him. I pretty much rolled his eyes and laughed. He wasn't trying to disparage you but said unless you've been there, and been charged by one or more of these animals and seen what kind of punishment they will absorb and keep coming, you don't know what you're talking about. When they charge, they drop their head, this covers a great deal of their chest area. The horns and bosses will deflect most shots, (this includes solids, and solids is what you use on buff). He uses only the best premium dangerous game bullets.
On his last trip another friend of mine went with him. He brought along a .375 and a .416. My buddy told him about how hard these things were to kill sometimes and to keep shooting and not to stop to admire his shot. The guy rolled his eyes not quite believing him. that afternoon he get a chance at a nice buff. The buff took 9 400 grain solids in the chest and shoulders to bring him down. They were well placed shots, he never rolled his eyes at my friend again. Dave[/quote
 
you maybe right but a do no pepole who have gone and hunted them and have seen there video footage of there buff been shot and they only fired 1 shot and down they went im not say it dead out right it took a bit to die but wasnt runing round ,only 0ne video of my m8s it took 3 shots but it wasnt charging him round ,not saying that they dont ,why not shot it in the hips and take out its back end then it wood have to drag its front end it wouldnt run fast then or shoot out a front leg that would slow it down and end him with a head shot take out his weak points his legs ,but thats a bit mean i would like to see one of you m8s nine shot videos on you tube ,but hes right about one thing as i have not hunted them i cant realy talk only going off my m8s videos and what he has told me i no he uses barnes banded solids

[glen1]

that I can believe!!!!! I have seen moose here hit by cars and needing to be put down only to have a game warder or state cop put 6-7 shots in the head and see it "not" die. one of my good friends had this task and he said he put shots through the ear, eye, etc..., the animal just kept hanging on. Believe me, moose are not hard to kill, but thier brain is not that big!!! I would take a well placed lung, heart shot anyday over a head shot. I "KNOW" a bullet through the heart is going to kill any animal. God Bless.

what was he shooting the moose with

[use enough gun]

My buddy and other people he has been hunting with have dropped them with one shot but, as he's told me you keep shooting. The problem is they don't always want to die with just one shot, not all the time but enough times to make you pay attention.
   Anyway, it's nice to have forums like this to hear other peoples views and opinions on hunting and shooting. And it's a nice place to meet some real good and interesting people that share a common passion. Dave

[davidlt89]

what was he shooting the moose with

I believe they use .45's.

[AZ Shooter Gal]

Brit, it doesn't matter which6.5 was used. They are all of roughly the same power. The point is that they did use such small caliber and low power rounds to take everything on the planet.

[Daryl (deceased)]

it is funny how the old time hunters of legend used cartridges like the 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser and the 7mm Mauser to great effect on such animals as elephant and cape buffalo yet today these are considered light for plains game. I must presume that elephants and buffalo back then were much easier to kill. I cannot think of any other reason for the perceived need for magnums of .375" and MUCH larger.

I doubt that they were easier to kill.  I probably has more to do with a few of them getting stomped, after not putting the bullet quite where it was supposed to go.
 
I've never been to Africa, but I've shot a lot of various critters.  It's strange in some ways that a bad hit will oft-times kill an animal very quickly; even dropping them in their tracks at time.  Yet a well placed bullet sometimes won't get the same reaction, and the animal takes longer to die.
 
At close range, it doesn't take much time for an animal to stomp the hunter.  A 10 ton elephant that's not quite hit right with the first shot might not give the shooter enough time for another.
 
I've chest shot coyotes with a .243 Win that still ran a few hundred yards before they gave up, yet have sometimes dropped them in their tracks with a "lesser" shot from the same rifle.
 
I know of a few experienced hunters who went to Africa a few years back.  They wrote stories of animals they thought would be easy to kill, yet somehow seemed to have far more will to live than any animal they'd ever hunted before.
 
Those kinds of stories, along with a little hype from experienced hunters who want to jack up their stories a bit to make them more exciting, and so-called "gun writers" (ptooey) building up the newest large magnum all contribute to the huge rifles we have today.
 
Are they needed?  IMO most aren't on this continent.  I'm not sure about Africa, since I've not been there, but I suspect that if I was facing a large, dangerous creature, I'd want more than a 7x57mm mauser in my hands.  Can it do the job?  Of course it can, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet my life on being that lucky.
 
Daryl

[kombi1976]

I think you'd be silly to go to Africa with one rifle if it was less powerful than 9.3x64 or 375 H&H.
9.3x62 has a good reputation as a flexible round but it would be better as a plains game rifle and a dangerous game defence rifle when nothing bigger was on offer.
So I reckon the old 375 H&H would probably be the ideal.
Ammo is available every where, people know it's performance specs, there are loads for long range plains game AND dangerous game.
Rounds like 450/400 NE 3¼" look like a good idea but they are limited to a minimum or 400gr pills and while dangerous game is a consideration in African hunting it isn't the be all and end all.