Black Powder Cartridge Series - .38-55 Win

[Jay Edward (deceased)]

Although I have a weakness for all black powder cartridges, this one made the transition from black powder to smokeless in one smooth move.  When Winchester re-introduced it into their, then new, Model 94 Big Bore...well suffice to say I almost broke a leg getting one.  Over the years (with lead bullets and 4198 powder) it's taken the deer that have been shot with it, effortlessly.

It always was one of the more accurate numbers in old single shot competitions and the 265 grain flat nose bullet seemed just made for deer sized animals up to 200 yards.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,
 
      Now I don't believe this, Jay is inferring that "he likes Black Powder, lots of smoke and smell. Somehow that seems just a little far fetched to my thinking;) I mean that's like asking does a Donkey like Oats?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Silly note here:- Were you aware that here in the UK it's illegal to use a hard cast bullet for the taking of Deer!:eek:  It must a bullet, an expanding bullet, which is designed/made to expand. Therefore a soft cast paper patched bullet would be leagl providing that is weighs over 100 grains and produces over 1700 ft lbs muzzle energy and is over .240 calibre:confused:
 
So a rilfe bullet combination producing 1650 ft lbs cannot be used. In scotland it's even sillier the calibre, weight and muzzle energy stay the same but now you maudt have a minimum muzzle velocity of 2450 fps unless it's for Roe Deer when a bullet of .22 calibre using a 50 grain bullet producing 1100 ft lbs is allowed. Confused? then you are notthe only one! The all time classic Scottish Deer rifle, the Mannlicjer Schoenauer in 6.5x54MS is not legal now as it's not fast enough.

[quigleysharps4570]

That's a fine cartridge. I load those for a friend of mine that shoots a Marlin levergun. I haven't been able to talk him into letting me load them with blaclpowder yet though. So I use 5744 with his cast flatpoint bullets got a good load for him. This year he went and put a scope on it, it kinda grew on me after awhile. He shot a 10pt. last year with it, said it dropped him flat.

[drinksgin (deceased)]

In the 60's, I met a older fellow[back then I thought he was just old, now I am older than he was], he spent the depression in Alaska, his one and only was a '94 in .38-55, he said he shot everything from his"pottiges" to coastal bear with it and only 1 bear needed more than 1 shot.
I would really like one, even the Marlin, but I just do not have time for another gun.
Don

[little pete]

Hmmmm! I guess I just sent a message into the etherzone:undecided: Well what I was asking was this - I am about to pick up a Model 94 Win. Sav. lever action that was built in 1912 and plan to shoot black powder only. This rifle has a new liner and was worked over by a competent gunsmith.  Having played only with my M L's I was wondering how far this type of rifle will shoot. What sort of yardage can I expect when I am shooting at paper? Two hundred? Three hundred? More:eek: ? Would really appreciate any information on this. Thanks in advance.
 
little pete

[Alboy]

Little Pete
 
Jay is the resident expert on BP cartridge and there are some others around also. If Jay said it was competent to take deer sized game out to 200 I bet you cna punch paper a whole lot farther. The guys will come wandering back in after a while.
 
Welcome to our camp.

[drinksgin (deceased)]

Pete;
I am thoroughly confused, I know of the Win. 1894 and the Savage 1899 lever action rifles, but have no idea what a Win./ Sav. is.
What is the caliber?
These rifles were available in from .22 to .38.

[little pete]

Sorry about the apple and the orange mix.  The rifle I am talking about is a 1912 model 94 38-55 lever action Winchester.  My fingers got ahead of my mind.:undecided:
 
little pete

[Paul Hoskins]

Jay. I've shot a few 38/55s but only in SS rifles. I have owned a Hepburn and Hi wall in 38/55 but both had completely worn out barrels. Both were rebuilt and rebarrelled for something else. I have an old original Ideal tong type loading tool with the bullet mold built in. It makes beautiful bullets but the handles get hot quick. Best I remember the bullet is the 265 gr. FP. Also have an original Ideal loading tool for the 32/40 that cast a 165 gr. FP bullet. These tools are great for loading in the field. I have quit tinkering with Scheutzen rifles for the most part and only have one left. Planning on building a new 32/40 on a homemede action mostly for show. It will be rather fancy. ............Paul H

[gitano]

Although I have a weakness for all black powder cartridges

Really!?!?! Who'd a thunk it?
 
Paul[/SIZE]

[Jay Edward (deceased)]

Having played only with my M L's I was wondering how far this type of rifle will shoot. What sort of yardage can I expect when I am shooting at paper? Two hundred? Three hundred? More:eek: ? Would really appreciate any information on this. Thanks in advance.
 
little pete

It will depend mightily on your ability to shoot the rifle little pete.  I find that I can do competent work on game animals using a peep sight (with a fine bead) at the longer range... however, there is no way I can give you a definitive answer.

It will depend on the accuracy of your load, the ballistic of the selected bullet, the qualities of your rifle and your own ability to shoot at the longer ranges.  A hard-cast lead bullet of 265 grain weight will penetrate more than you might believe... and it is already .38 caliber whether it expands or not.

Fine long range shooting has been done with this cartridge by shooters using target singleshots and very careful loading practices.

Were I you, I would limit my hunting range to 125 yards until you become very familiar with the cartridge... and I mean very familiar.  The larger game presents a larger heart lung area in general and can give a hunter a little more confidence.  This shooting of black powder cartridge rifles is not the type of shooting that one expects when they pick up a scope sighted standard smokeless chambering. (.30-06, .270, 7mm mag, etc.)  You've got to really put yourself into it if you want to reap the rewards.

[Jay Edward (deceased)]

Jay. I've shot a few 38/55s but only in SS rifles. I have owned a Hepburn and Hi wall in 38/55 but both had completely worn out barrels. Both were rebuilt and rebarrelled for something else. I have an old original Ideal tong type loading tool with the bullet mold built in. It makes beautiful bullets but the handles get hot quick. Best I remember the bullet is the 265 gr. FP. Also have an original Ideal loading tool for the 32/40 that cast a 165 gr. FP bullet. These tools are great for loading in the field. I have quit tinkering with Scheutzen rifles for the most part and only have one left. Planning on building a new 32/40 on a homemede action mostly for show. It will be rather fancy. ............Paul H

Wouldn't mind seeing that action Paul.

[Paul Hoskins]

Jay, I emailed you pic's. of the action but the rest of the guy's might like to see it so I'll post a few for their benefit. This is absolutely the smoothest operating SS action I ever saw..........Paul H.......ps......For some reason the forum won't let me post more pic's........weird......

[DancesWithCoyoties]

Silly note here:- Were you aware that here in the UK it's illegal to use a hard cast bullet for the taking of Deer!:eek:
 
Not silly at all once you consider that most of the uk is braindead morons that let their govt
tell them what they can own and what they cant....  most of them spend the equavlent of
the price of a new hi end remington 700 on AN AIR RIFLE... to HUNT WITH... and they are
reduced to hunting rats and wabbits...   although those are perfectly fun pastimes... thats exactly what they are... hobbies... here... there ..its the law...and the end reslults..
 
 
you forgot to mention the most important issue... they ARENT ALLOWED TO HAVE REAL
HUNTING WEAPONS....other than a shotgun....  no gun..NO BULLETS DUDE.  ....

[Paul Hoskins]

DWC, first, welcome to THL forums. Second, for a newcomer, you are coming on pretty strong and in a confrontational manner in my opinion. ...........Paul H