Hunting rounds for the PH 1200 in .308 win.

[old man ken]

Hi peeps, looking to pick your brains about factory and home loads suitable for deer up to Reds and out to about 125 yards!
Any views and ideas would be much appreciated, I know what your rifle likes mine might not but have to start somewhere.
I have in stock Vit 150, CCi primers and various brass along with the old faithful LE set up.
thanks.
omk

[Brithunter]

Hi old man ken,

        I am sorry but I never had much luck with the Vhit rifle powders. I have had much better results with Reloader 15 and H-380 and I have used bullets in weight from 180 grains to 130 grains. My P-H 1100 Lwt likes the 130 Grain Hornady SP backed by H-380. I cannot say what velocity it's giving as I have not chrongraphed it. I will edit this a little later after I go outside to fetch my handloading records.

[Brithunter]

Ok things have been a little hectic here then it went totally out of my mind ........................ sorry.
 
OK the loads mention herein have proved safe in my my rifles but that does NOT mean they will be in yours so start low and work up .


I have not shot any game as yet using the 130 Grain Hornady in the .308 but several deer with it in my 30-30 so I know it performs well. The 30-30 handloads produce just over 2800fps.


In my P-H 1100 Lwt 50.0 Grn BLC-2 with Rem 9 1/2 primer in a Winchester case and the Hornady 130 Grn SP loaded to a COL of 2.700", if I do my part can achieve this at 75 metres (82 yards):-
 

 
The top three holes ringed in black biro were the Speer 200 grain bullet, it didn't like that particulr bullet/load.

Now most of my deer stalking witht he .308 has been with the 165 Grain bullets and Reloader 15 powder.
 

 
 

45.5 Grn Reloader 15, Rem 9 1/2, Win case, Nosler 165 Bal Tip COL= 2.860"
 
 

165 Grn Speer #2035, Rem 9 1/2, Win case, COL 2.800"
 
 
Using a Brno ZKK 601 Std with either a 6x42 Deutsche scope of the Ziess Jena ZF/4N (4x mag with German Tri Post recticle) I have also been experimenting with the 150 Grn Round Nose bullets:-
 

That target is 10 shots fired in one go using the Speer 150 grn Round Nose bullet, it shows promise but needs working on. Load was 47.0 Grn Rel 15, Rem 9 1/2, Win Case, COL 2.700" and was shot on 20th August 06.


I (thought I had) tried both Hornady and Speer but for some reason I cannot find what I used with the Hornady so perhaps I never got around to using the Hornady in the .308 and only in the 30-30.


I took my first deer with the Sierra 180 Grn Pro Hunter #2150 using 42.0 Grn Reloader 15, OFV case (milsurp), WLR, COL 2.800" using the Brno 601. Despite an impressive DRT the way the bullet came apart on a 35LB dressed out Roe Doe worried me and that's when I started looking at lighter bullets of other makes and for 11 years that what I did use the 165 gran bulelts in either Speer SP or the Nosler Ballistic Tip.
 
Hope that answers your question!

[gitano]

Contrary to BH, I have had good luck with VV powder, but I have used it in only a few cartridges, none of which were .308 Win. Second, I tend to shoot light-for-caliber (LFC) bullets in .308 Win, and I suspect that's not going to be your "cup o' tea". However, if you are in fact only going to restrict ranges to 125 yards, I would urge you to read some of the threads on LFC bullets in the .308 here at THL. I think they might serve you well, and I have hunted red deer, so I know what I'm saying when I make that statement.
 
One 'problem' with VV N-150 powder for the .308 Win case is that being a 'slow' powder, you can't get great velocity. It's not because of pressure, it's because you simply can't get enough powder in the case.
 
I would be happy to 'run some numbers' for you, but would need you to at least pick a bullet. If you are a "through-and-through" kinda guy, you'll probably want something in the 180-grain. If you don't care if the bullet passes completely through or not, a 150-grain bullet will get you good energy delivered, and is likely (but not assuredly), to pass through your animal at ranges less than 150 yds.
 
One thing that will go a long way toward getting realistic numbers, and maximizing performance, will be the max length of the cartridge that your rifle will accept. This requires measuring the chamber length first, and then making sure that your magazine can handle a cartridge whose length will fit in your chamber.
 
The BEST way to get good chamber dimensions is to cast the chamber. If you are not comfortable doing this, you should be able to find a gunsmith that will do it. In the US, this could be done for about $25. I don't know what your cost might be, but I bet BH does. It's really easy to do, and doing it yourself is truly within your abilities I'm sure.
 
Another way to do it is to use Hornady's (formerly Stoney Point), Chamber-All tool. You can get it here: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=570611
 
I'll give you some generic .308 Win numbers with 150 and 180-grain bullets using VV N-150 powder and the CIP standard (European firearms standards) dimensions for the .308 Win cartridge.
 
Finally, let me suggest that you consider some other powders. I appreciate how expensive powder in Great Britain is, and make that suggestion knowing that using what's in hand has considerable appeal. Furthermore, given your range limits, you really don't need "better performance", (higher velocity), but... other powders would give you a bit more 'wiggle room" when finding that accuracy sweet spot.
 
Using a 24" barrel and charges of 105% of case capacity of N-150, QuickLoad gives the following estimates:
 
180-grain Nosler Accubond
 
Charge -  41.14 grains
MV - 2452 f/s
ME - 2404 ft-lbs
 
Velocity at 125 yds - 2259 f/s
Energy at 125 yds - 2021 ft-lbs
 
150-grain Nosler Accubond
 
Charge - 44.3 grains
MV - 2648 f/s
ME - 2337 ft-lbs
 
Velocity at 125 yds - 2403 f/s
Energy at 125 yds - 1923 ft-lbs
 
Just for comparison, changing to Reloader 15 powder and the 165-grain bullet, QuickLoad gives the following estimates:
 
 
Charge - 43.67 grains (100% of case capacity)
MV - 2700 f/s
ME - 2668 ft-lbs
 
Velocity at 125 yds -2471 f/s
Energy at 125 yds - 2237 ft-lbs
 
Paul

[old man ken]

Thanks Paul, lots to consider following your post!
Due to the timescales imposed on me to register the stalks with our Police to get the necessary conditions on my license and the need to buy ammo/zero etc prior to any activity, I am proposing to find some factory loads that it likes to get me underway.
I will most certainly look at homeloads being a bit of an accuracy nut, though some stalking areas here accept factory loads only only!
omk

[old man ken]

Paul, re reading your post, sorry to be a bit of a """moose""" but where is the thead for and what are LFC bullets.
ken

[gitano]

There are several threads that discuss Light-For-Caliber (LFC) bullets in a variety of calibers. I would use the THL search engine and look for "LFC" and/or "light-for-caliber". I'll look for a few of them that I know of right off the top of my head.
 

register the stalks with our Police

Do I understand that you have to "register" a planned hunt with the local police?
 
Finding good 'factory' ammo is probably easier for the .308 Win than just about any other cartridge, with the possible exception in Europe of the 6.5x57, 7x57, and maybe the .30-06. I'd recommend a 150-grain bullet in factory "hunting" ammo. The 180s are likely to be a bit anemic. At least they are here Stateside. If you can find a 165-grain "hunting" bullet in factory ammo, that would likely be a good choice too.
 
Good luck with all of this, and if you actually do get to go hunting, be sure to take some pictures. Many of us here at THL live vicariously through the lives (pictures) of our fellow hunters.
 
Paul
 
PS - Try this search. It will get you started.
http://thehunterslife.com/forums/search.php?searchid=125940

[Brithunter]

Ahhh Gitano if I am reading this right OMK is new to stalking (Deer Hunting) as they insist on you being overseen by an experienced stalker as a rule here. It's not required by law it's just one of those rules made up by the Police and the faceless "civil servants" and they use the conditions on your certificate to impose this and it's almost impossible to challange. As your aware not all shooters are the same and some really do need this others do not so I can see the point of it to some degree.

I went through it years ago. However the way it was done then was to put that you could go with say Joe Bloggs on his cleared land and shoot deer whilst accompanyied by him or his agent.

The trouble is that each constabulary has it's own ideas how this should be done .

As for the chamber cast finding a gunsmith who is familar with rifles is hard enough but finding one who would even think about making a chamber cast is going to bevery difficult. Finding a gunsmith to worl on a double barrel shotgun is easy :smiley: .

Oh and the Sako ammunition seems to perform well in lots of different rifles as does Federal .

[gitano]

In my opinion, if you have a business license to be a "gunsmith" and you can't do a chamber cast, your license should be revoked.
 
Paul

[Brithunter]

Ahhh Gitano the licence here is for a "Registered Firearms Dealer"  as far as I am aware there is not a special licence for a gunsmith.

[Nelsdou]

OM Ken,

If you're limited to N150 you can make that work.  Include "Camp Perry" into an internet search query on loads for the 308.  I think you will find loads of 168-175 grain bullets on top of compressed N150, COLs 2.800 inches or longer.  All the cautions mentioned above apply.

Nels

[old man ken]

Thanks Guys,
as BH says, new to stalking and to get conditions on my licence to do it and buy expanding ammo I have to supply evidence of stalking booked with someone who has land cleared with them for the calibre I want to use!
Incidentally I have the  "DSC1"
By the way, thanks for the ammo info, will try Federal, Sako, Winchester and Remington  all in 150grn when I get clearance to buy.
As an interesting point, the stalker I am booked with is somewhere you side of the pond at present.
omk
 
ps. the new glasses obviously didn't work with "LFC"
what a moose!

[gitano]

the stalker I am booked with is somewhere you side of the pond at present

That's interesting.
 
Paul

[Brithunter]

Hmmmm Ken may I ask who you booked with, no not trying to muscle in, but some of the commercial types are not all their cracked up to be. The Carr chappie is one that springs to mind a friend had an awful spot of botther with him ended up with a court case to get his trophy off him and of course he spends tiem in the US and Africa.

This is one reason I an being careful who I go with since old Cliff retired and if I can I prefer to get referal.