>> 6.5 mm -- is this the "perfect" caliber ?

Started by LLANOJOHN (deceased), January 14, 2005, 03:22:22 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Hunterbug

neolithic hunter, I'm not going to argue that point with you because you are correct. But, I have a 30-06, 8X57 and 338 Win Mag all of which I can shoot groups of less than an inch at 100 yards. I feel that while the 6.5X55 will kill an elk I personally would chose one of thoes calibers first.
 
CAfrica, looks good. Do we get any pics of the springbok?
Ask not what your government can do for you. Ask how your government can go away and get out of your life.
 
 
The unarmed man is is not only defenseless, he is also contemptible.
Niccolo Machiavelli

gitano

CAfrica,
 
What are the BCs on those three bullets?
 
And, where are the pictures? :)
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

CAfrica

Gitano,
 
The 110gr GS has a BC of 0.49, which is very good for such a light bullet. I would suspect the Nosler to be about the same (0.45 +?)
I don't know about the 160gr, being a round nose but fairly long I would estimate about 0.3 to 0.35.  Since it is a close range bullet, I am not concerned with the BC.
I posted pics of the bullets before but I'll find them and post again.
 
HB,
 
Sorry, no pics.  It was late evening when we got back to camp and we were in a hurry to get it skinned and into the cool room (still fairly hot here even though it is well into fall).
 
Regards.
 
C

gitano

#93
My interest in the BCs, was to work up one of my Figure of Merit calculations. I remember now that you mention it, the GS BC.
 
Have another look at the "Falling Block" thread. I've posted another link that may make more sense regarding E. A. Brown's "philosophy". I disagree with ton's of what he says, (too many leaps of faith), but he explains his justifications clearly.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

Alboy

Watch out the camel is getting his nose under the tent.
 
Just wanted to respond to an obsevation that NEO made and I whole heartedly indorse.
 
Too much gun for too little shooter.
 
Maybe more aptly put this way. There is no such thing as being over gunned for a particular game and pretty difficult to be under gunned. Any weapon in the hands of a hunter that knows and understands it will get the job done. That is the secret. If the one you are carrying scares or abuses you to shoot it, you will not be proficent. The sound / energy / tight group / money spent mean didly if the one holding the gun can not put it on target.
Alboy
BLACKPOWDER WATERFOWLER
KATY TEXAS PRAIRIE
 
THIS TOO SHALL PASS

CAfrica

Gitano,

 
Here is that pic of the bullets. FLTR, 95gr GS C, 110gr GSC,  129gr Hornady interlock, 140gr Nosler Partition, 160gr Claw (the claw is a local bullet, it has a bonded core and it is almost as cheap as standard bullets). The bullet on the right is a standard 180gr 30 calibre for comparison.
 
There would be little sense in including the 160gr in the sweetspot table.  My load is a "downloaded" load for achieving a specific velocity for a specific purpose.  I concur with you that much of what appears on that web page I don't agree with but I do have certain beliefs about "slow" bullets which make me continue to use them.
 
Regards
 
C

gitano

Thanks for the images, CAfrica.
 
Ya know... I really have no desire to get anybody to change their modus operandus. Most things people choose to do with regard to bullet and cartridge selection are truly neither 'here nor there' in the final analysis. I just get a little 'kinked up' when people tell me thier way is 'best'.
 
We all choose our own 'poisons' for our own, usually well-thought-out, reasons. In the end, I think this issue really boils down to precious little more than an overt preference for either "penetration" or "shock". The truth is, both 'work'.
 
Regards,
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

CAfrica

No argument from me on that score.  If it works for you then good and well.
 
As you can see from the ballistics, I have both the fast and the slow. The only difference in my fast bullet is that I use a hollow point monometal bullet.  I do have a packet of 180gr Nosler Ballistic tips that have been standing in my gun cupboard for a couple of years now and at some stage I intend to try them out in my 30-06. Perforce it will not be a high velocity but at standard 06 velocities.
 
I'm sure they will work.  Whether they will change me bullet preference, well who can tell?
 
C

overbore

IMHO, the 6,5 X 55 hs two easy upgrades: the Ackley ( 40 degree shoulder) and the 37 Degree variant whose reamer is obtained from Dave Kiff, Pacific Tool <//www.pacifictooland gage.com>.  They are premier people.  The resultant cartride has more powder room, a longer neck and may be easily fireformed and has proved itself accurate at 1,000 yds.
 OVERBORE

overbore

For those advocates who think the 6.5 is the ideal size, you are on to something as the US Army is officailly going to 6.8mm rifles as the 5.56mm is requiring two to four hits to stop a terrorist at rifle combat ranges.   As a handloading tip, I use "Quick Load"  which answers almost any powder and bullet question  and it has this interesting chamber pressure note: a friction proofed bullet ( read moly ) hs about 68% of the chamber pressure of an uncoated ( dry ) bullet.   For serious load work-ups this combinned with a tight ( (0.003") neck bushing will give the necessary neck tension. Overbore

overbore

:) Just to stir the pot a bit, as you can see by my age, I have been shooting and reloading for at least 50 years and hve become cautious as to what we suggest but here are a few: use Norma Brass, don't use old Mauser rifles, use good recent computer data such as the following: 45.0 gr of H4350 =2,870'/sec and a 0.057" three shot group with a 138gr Lapua Secnar. Not too shabby for a load work up start point. If you must go faster, try 44gr of VV 140 for 3,103'/sec and a 0.172" three shot group with SMK 120gr's. TWist is one big key to accuracy; bullet weight and twist must be matched or it is like a 70 yr old marrying a 21 yr old- looks good on paper but--! For serious hunting, I am a Nosler ballistic tip fan as #1 choice followed by the Barnes products- just preferences; nothing scientific. In the benchrest game Norma brass is #2 with Lapua #1. My son is a big bore fan using a "loudenboomer eargersplitten" shoulder cannon of a 30-378 that loves about 125 gr of powder! Ouch! The 6.5 has the flexibility to download safely for my 10 year old grandson and for him to keep in the same caliber for his hunting life. Cordially, Overbore

sakorick

Quote from: overbore:) Just to stir the pot a bit, as you can see by my age, I have been shooting and reloading for at least 50 years and hve become cautious as to what we suggest but here are a few: use Norma Brass, don't use old Mauser rifles, Cordially, Overbore
Welcome overbore....nice to have someone around who is older than I am! Don't like Norma brass....in the old days, we called it "butter brass". What exactly do you dislike in regards to old Mausers? Parker Hale, HVA, CZ, Zavodi Crvena Zastava (ZCZ) and the Sweed to name a few, are regarded by many as being among the finest rifles ever built. The mod 98 made in the WWII era are also highly regarded as being rugged, dependable rifles......just wondering?  Regards, Rick.
Talk to yourself. There are times you need expert advice.

overbore

SAkorick, fist tell me about those wings, please, as I am a long time pilot with my first rating being the B-25.   Since I answered your question in a private  e-mail, I am putting my reasons in open view:  New high pressure loads excede the design metulurgy of the old Mauser actions; however, having said that , for the original loads, the old actions are fine but use an open information source such as //www.hogdonpowder.com to pay attention to the pressures if you do not have modern computer loading program.    If anyone is contemplatig a load that uses common bullets and powders, I will be glad to run them through my programs and post the pressures.    WARNING!!!   Any load combination that is not listed in the databases may be dangerously high in pressure !!!  This is particularly true of the old Mauser actions and temperature changes!!!  :eek:  OVERBORE

sakorick

#103
Quote from: overboreNew high pressure loads excede the design metulurgy of the old Mauser actions:eek: OVERBORE
Hello overbore. I assume you are referring to the really old pre WW1 Mausers and I agree. I fired some factory 170gr Rem shells in my dad's old 8mm mauser and they cronied at 2200'/sec....hardly a decent 30/30 round. I feel very comfortable with my brother's 6.5x55 sweed and dad's ww2 German as we have been shooting near max loads in them for 40-50 years now.
 
The wings are Master Army Aviator....retired Army here.
Regards, Rick.
Talk to yourself. There are times you need expert advice.

2ndtimer

Quote from: overboreSAkorick, fist tell me about those wings, please, as I am a long time pilot with my first rating being the B-25. Since I answered your question in a private e-mail, I am putting my reasons in open view: New high pressure loads excede the design metulurgy of the old Mauser actions; however, having said that , for the original loads, the old actions are fine but use an open information source such as www.hogdonpowder.com to pay attention to the pressures if you do not have modern computer loading program. If anyone is contemplatig a load that uses common bullets and powders, I will be glad to run them through my programs and post the pressures. WARNING!!! Any load combination that is not listed in the databases may be dangerously high in pressure !!! This is particularly true of the old Mauser actions and temperature changes!!! :eek: OVERBORE
This brings up the question of just how hot the loading manuals loads are. Most of them don't say what pressure their 6.5x55 loads are, and leaves us wondering if they are held down to "prudent" 6.5x55 pressure levels, hence can be safely exceeded within reason by shooters using modern bolt actions. For instance, one manual lists 46 gr of IMR-4350, standard primer, 129 gr Hornady bullet as a maximum load. What it doesn't say is whether that is a 50,000 cup load or a 44,000 cup load. If one assumes it is a 44,000 cup load it can probably be safely pushed to 47 or 48 gr and still be within safe pressure levels for a modern action. But if the 46 gr load is already at 50,000, that 48.0 gr load may be heading into the danger zone. I want as much performance as I can get, but I don't want to exceed safe pressure levels. (My vision isn't very good, but these are the only eyes I will ever have, sure don't want to lose them) If you have time, Overbore, I would love to see what your program would say for those loads. Kind of curious to see which pressure level the manual is indicating. Thanks.

Tags: