Hornadays new bullets

[farmboy]

I was just on hornaday s web site they have a video new for 2016 they are introducing a new tipped bullet they claim all the old tipped bullets of every make the tips melt in flight. Interesting! Might be worth a watch and see what everyone thinks. Paul any chance that is what is causing the 17 cal bullet blowups in flight?

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

And yet offered no evidence...

[sakorick]

I was just on hornaday s web site they have a video new for 2016 they are introducing a new tipped bullet they claim all the old tipped bullets of every make the tips melt in flight. Interesting! Might be worth a watch and see what everyone thinks. Paul any chance that is what is causing the 17 cal bullet blowups in flight?

I wouldn't believe what Hornady says. The polymer tip of a supersonic bullet has just about as much chance of "melting" as a lead tipped bullet. There are so many different factors that relate to this subject it would take a rocket scientist to explain all them and the your mind might not be able to translate the data into any useful conclusion. Velocity, friction, spin rate, drag forces, gyroscopic and dynamic stability are factors that may cause something to melt. I doubt very much that a conventional rifle bullet at a proper twist rate would melt a Poly or lead tipped bullet.

[Bill Thibeault]

"Velocity, friction, spin rate, drag forces, gyroscopic and dynamic stability..."  These are big words for a pilot!  

[sakorick]

"Velocity, friction, spin rate, drag forces, gyroscopic and dynamic stability..."  These are big words for a pilot!  

Oh, I forgot Coriolis forces. Because of the rotation of the earth, a bullet does not fly straight from the barrel to a target. The Coriolis effect minutely changes the trajectory of a bullet, curving the path of the projectile into a more arched 'semi-circle' shape. This effect only affects accuracy at extremely long distances and is therefore adjusted for by accurate long-distance shooters, such as snipers and other trained professionals. Now would this effect be changed if the polymer tip were burned off? I think so because the BC would change along with dynamic stability and drag.

Berger has been working on a new bullet.....Tests show that this new projectile, dubbed the “Sonic Ripple Bullet”, has signficantly less drag than conventional bullets (no matter what their ogive configuration). In addition, the Sonic Ripple design provides increased stability at all velocities (allowing barrels with slower twist rates for a given bullet weight). So far, they haven't appeared on the shelf! Barnes has been testing this bullet since 2013.

Oh and let's not forget the US Army.......In their pursuit of a lower-drag bullet, the Army tried a variety of designs, including bullets with circumferential drive bands, dual-radius ogives, and rebated boat-tails. The dimpled “golf-ball” design was considered a “long shot” according to the design team, but it has performed beyond all expectations. The nominal drag coefficient (Cd) has improved by about +.040, while cartridge muzzle velocity has increased by nearly 80+ fps because the bullet’s dimpled skin reduces in-barrel friction. What’s more — the terminal performance of the dimpled bullet has been “spectacular”. The Aberdeen team set out to produce a slightly more slippery bullet for U.S. Army snipers. What they ended up with is a bullet with dramatically enhanced long-range ballistics and superior killing power on “soft targets”. They are going to call it the "Titleist".....(just kidding)

[gitano]

My first thought when I read the above comments was: It's a pretty bold statement to make without 'proof'. Not that Hornady would present evidence/proof to the average user, but rather that the 'experts' at the other manufacturers would take them to task on it if it wasn't "true". So I looked at the entire video.

With respect to the question of "melting" polymer tips, let me keep it short: You will note that while they showed several animations of "old" bullets in flight, not a single one showed any "melting" as a 'regular person' would define it. There lies the deception of Hornady's marketing department; they didn't define the term "melting". "You" and I have a concept of melting in our personal 'reference dictionary'. Hornady's marketing department is relying on that 'common perception' to sensationalize the production of their new bullet SALES offering.

Based on what I saw and heard, here's what I think is the TRUTH: Polymer bullet tips ERODE as they travel from muzzle to target. (Look closely at their animations.) That erosion degrades the point which in turn degrades the BC. Imagine that the polymer tip (hereafter PT) heats up due to friction with the air it is traveling through. "Heating up" will soften the PT which in turn makes it more susceptible to erosion from the "stuff" in the air - dust, etc. THAT I can believe. They have chosen to call it "melting" because "melting" is more dramatic than "eroding". They don't KNOW what happens, they only speculate on the "melting". What they KNOW from the observed data is that the actual change in BC with range is greater than the model predicts. Looking at the thermodynamic characteristics of the PT, they CONCLUDED that heat ("melting") was the cause of the erosion of the meplat. (Which by the way is pronounced "meh plah", not "MEE plat", you'd expect an EXPERT ballistician to know that.)

It is difficult to imagine that Hornady would tell a bald-faced lie that is so easily tested. I am "fine" with their new PT and it's new material that probably does substantially diminish the in-flight EROSION. Therefore it should retain a higher BC for a greater distance. HOWEVER, did you note their "short range" comment: "Zero to four", meaning zero to four hundred yards. That's relevant to me both in the context of MY personal hunting, AND in the context of the "melting" issue. What I read "between the lines" of that comment is that if you shoot at less than 400 yd, tip erosion/melting is a non-issue.

My 'bottom line' is that the new Hornady bullets are probably "better" in an absolute sense of the word "better". I doubt the 'betterness' of them will matter much to my shooting. What I am VERY curious about, is how much more they are going to COST. I also noted the comment at 3:15 of the video that "This bullet is difficult to manufacture". That is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT A MARKETING PLOY TO JUSTIFY INCREASING THE SALES PRICE.

If it costs significantly more than "regular" bullets, it isn't an 'issue' at ranges less than 400 yd, and I ALWAYS shoot at ranges less than 400 yd, I would not pay more for the new bullet.

Paul

[sakorick]

The Army golf ball bullet was an April fools joke some years ago.

[sakorick]

My 'bottom line' is that the new Hornady bullets are probably "better" in an absolute sense of the word "better". I doubt the 'betterness' of them will matter much to my shooting. What I am VERY curious about, is how much more they are going to COST. I also noted the comment at 3:15 of the video that "This bullet is difficult to manufacture". That is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT A MARKETING PLOY TO JUSTIFY INCREASING THE SALES PRICE.

If it costs significantly more than "regular" bullets, it isn't an 'issue' at ranges less than 400 yd, and I ALWAYS shoot at ranges less than 400 yd, I would not pay more for the new bullet.

Paul

Someone already makes alyoumineeum tips....I bet they don't erode!
:laugh:

[farmboy]

Cil made the first tipped bullet s the tip was bronze

[farmboy]

The other thing they said was something like the bullet keeps expanding. It is not bonded I sounded Luke there was very little in the way of controlled expansion varmint bullet perhaps.

[gitano]

What I 'get' from their propaganda video is that they are building this bullet to take financial advantage of the growing trend in 'hunting' - to use the term loosely - to shoot at very long ranges; greater than 400 yd. It has been my observation that those participating in long range big game sniping tend to have plenty of spare cash to devote to their shooting. Hornady wants some of that money. As such, I don't think they are interested - with this ELD-X bullet - in the "varmint" market.

Paul

[j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)]

Someone already makes alyoumineeum tips....I bet they don't erode!
:laugh:

Only in salt water Rick...