Wolves - out of control

[whacker1]

Hello All,
 
I have had a pretty rough hunting season this year. lots of hiking, driving, trying lots of different tactics. I even went so far as to talk to some friends that hunt in the same area, then talked to fish and game officials, and then to random hunters in the same area. I came up with one consistent message. Wolves sign is at an all time high and the sigthings are way up. I have not done a lot of research until this year on the wolf population, but I was suprised at how large the population actually is.
 
So, needless to say I won't be going back to this geographical region, but I wanted to let you all know about the experience.
 
I have a couple of concerns that I was hoping someone could shed some light on for me, because everything I have heard so far is hearsay.
 
First, I am told that when the wolves were re-introduced to the lower 48 - they were re-introduced as the "Grey" wolf from Canada, but the native species that originally inhabited this area of Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho was the "Timber" wolf. My understanding from this hearsay and conjecture is that the Grey wolf is about 20-30 lbs heavier as a species. Grey ranging from 75 -130 lbs. Timber ranging from 60 - 90 lbs. The bottom line is that the Timber wolf preyed on Elk calves, Deer, and the weaker animals. The Grey wolf preys on Elk, Moose, Deer, Bear, and Cats regardless of size. Anyone shed any light on this?
 
Second, there was an article in the local paper last week stating that 700-800 of the reintroduced population of wolves totalling 1500 acroos three states are located in the area of Idaho I have spent 18 days hunting this year. I wish they would have run the article in the summer instead of December.
 
Third, I have attached a few pictures from my Saturday excursion. Feel free to give me your thoughts:
 
The picture quality might be hard to discern, but the one pic shows Wolf Sign matched against my hunting partners hat.
The next pic is with my fat little fingers in comparison to another, fresher set of Wolf tracks.
The final pic shows elk sign intermingled with wolf sign in a patch of snow.
 
I welcome your feedback.
Neil

[Alboy]

I don't know the answers to your questiopns but wait for some good info myself. those look like big prints to me.

[rockinbbar]

From what I know of the wolf, no matter what it's sub-species, it will prey on ALL it can catch & kill.

There was a reason the wolf was "taken out" over a hundred years ago.

It's too bad people have to make the same ignorant history repeat itself.

The wolf program is a prime example of why the govt. should not be allowed into things....they WILL mess it up. Guaranteed!

[Daryl (deceased)]

Yep, what rockinbbar said.
 
Exactly.
 
Daryl

[whacker1]

I can't agree with you more regarding the ignorant decisions about re-introduction.  I think I have narrowed down many of the areas in Idaho and Montana that are most impacted by the wolf population, but I am hoping that someone besides myself is researching the subject.  I guess I will need to start spending more time & money applying for Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, and Arizona.  Next year's focus is on Montana and Special permits in Washington.
 
Neil

[Daryl (deceased)]

Neil,
 
Arizona and New Mexico also have re-introduced wolves, and they're making an impact in some areas.
 
The Arizona Game & Fish Dept backed out of introducing any more wolves, and did it several years ago, but it's likely too little, too late.  They're here, and I've noticed the impact in some areas I like to hunt.
 
Of course, officially they come up with other reasons for the lack of elk, but I find it to be one heck of a coincidence in the timing.
 
Daryl

[whacker1]

I don't understand what the interest is in re-introduction of a pack hunting predator might be.  Thanks for the info on AZ and NM.  If I go down this path, I will ask what units to stay away from.  
 
If you ever want info on the MT or Idaho regions, I have lots more information.
Neil

[whacker1]

In case anyone wanted to see the article I referenced:

Wolf domestic animal kills up in Idaho

Most problems in middle of state; 136 wolves killed

Associated Press
December 5, 2008
TWIN FALLS, Idaho – Wolves in Idaho have killed 325 cattle, sheep and dogs so far in 2008, the Idaho Department of Fish and Game says.
The reported kills through Nov. 24 – 212 sheep, 100 cattle and 13 dogs – are 47 more than in all of 2007.
Steve Nadeau, the department's large carnivore coordinator, said wolves in the last two years have tended to move onto private land.
"You can't just keep stuffing wolves on top of each other," he told The Times-News.
He said the biggest problem area stretches across the middle of the state, in a rough triangle that stretches from Weiser to Fairfield to Salmon.
Wolves were reintroduced into Yellowstone National Park and central Idaho in the mid-1990s. There are an estimated 1,500 wolves in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming, with 700 to 800 of them in Idaho. Nadeau said his agency is doing aerial surveys in Idaho to see if those numbers have changed.
Idaho officials had planned a hunting season on wolves this fall until U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy of Montana restored the predator's endangered status last summer.
Since then, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service announced that it planned to end federal protections for gray wolves in Montana and Idaho.
"It's crazy that they're not delisted in Idaho," said Stan Boyd, executive director of the Idaho Wool Growers Association. "To me, it goes to show you that the Endangered Species Act doesn't really work."
Through Nov. 21, Fish and Game had documented the killing of 136 wolves in the state. Federal authorities killed 86 that had been preying on livestock, and 13 were killed by people protecting livestock or dogs. Nine wolves were killed illegally.
Most of the remainder died for unknown reasons, the agency said.
Jenny Harbine, an attorney with the environmental group Earthjustice, said it does not plan to oppose the killing of wolves that prey on livestock.
"We haven't sued over the rule that allows that, and don't intend to," Harbine said. "Our goal is to find a way to live with wolves."
Had a wolf hunting season taken place in Idaho this year, Fish and Game officials estimated it would have reduced the wolf population in the state by 200 to 250 animals.
Wayne Wright, chairman of the Fish and Game Commission, said the state is preparing to manage wolves again if they are delisted and management of the species is returned to the state.
"We'd like to make sure we have all the tools ready to implement," Wright said.

[Daryl (deceased)]

Neil,
 
Units 1 and 27 in Arizona have some problems with wolves.  They were introduced in unit 27, with hunt unit 1 just north of there.
 
Those are the units I've noticed the changes in, but I don't know if they're the only ones.
 
Daryl

[LvrLover]

Those look like good size tracks. As far as the species go I believe gray wolves and timber wolves are all Canis Lupis. Just different names I think. We have over 500 in Wisconsin, mostly north of here; but 4 people I know have seen them this deer season around here. They weren't coyotes or dogs either. I don't mind a few around, but large predators around populated areas are a sure recipe for disaster. I believe all predators should run at the first smell, sound, or sight of people. I am a big advocate of using hazing or rubber bullets on every predator on sight. Make them SCARED. If that don't work kill em. Managed hunting of predators is necessary to instill FEAR of man. There is always the 3 S's if all else fails.

[gitano]

There are only two recognized species of wolf in North America - the gray (Canis lupis) AKA timber wolf, and the red (Canis rufus).
 
Paul

[rockinbbar]

There are only two recognized species of wolf in North America - the gray (Canis lupis) AKA timber wolf, and the red (Canis rufus).*Paul

You are correct, Paul.

The sad thing is, is the activists that it gives a "warm fuzzy feeling" to know that there are wolves prowling about, want you to believe that there are grey wolves, Mexican wolves, timberwolves, ....etc.

Ok, the NEXT thing on their agenda.....:(The activists are pretty well monied....Some of them exceedingly well off.Well, in their opinion, U.S. F. & G. does not move fast enough, nor with the penetration that the activists want to see with expanding wolf areas & with releasing wolves into said areas.SO, they are funding their own clandestine wolf release programs in different areas....

Now, bear in mind that such activities are illegal per state game & fish laws, but they are doing so anyway.

Since when has breaking the law stopped any of these groups? Never...They are radical domestic terrorists, pure & simple. Just like the tree huggers that burn down houses in high-end subdivisions.

The only difference is that once they DO release their own wolves into the wilds, THOSE wolves garner the same federal protection that the federally supervised wolves enjoy.

In short, if you are a rancher & you have wolves of ANY sort on your property & killing your legacy & livelyhood, YOU will be considered the criminal when you exercise your RIGHT to protect your property & livelyhood.

A very sad state of affairs....

Done with my rant now....

Barry

[Daryl (deceased)]

Barry,
 
Arizona actually allows us to protect livestock from wolves; including shooting them if necessary.
 
Now, that doesn't include pets.  If they're killing your dog, too bad and so sad, but it they attack your horse then they're legal from what I've read in Arizona's regulations.
 
Even so, catching them at it is rare, so they prey/prowl pretty freely.
 
Daryl

[whacker1]

Yes, protection of Livestock and human safety are justifiable reasons in the state of Washington, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming as well.  But as many have stated, due to their nocturnal nature it is difficult to catch them in the open to actually get a shot at wolf.
Thanks for the clarification on the species!
Neil

[redrover]

Hey Whacker,
Over here in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan things aren't so hot either.
The feds tried to delist the wolves as they are beginning to overpopulate and cause problems (eating dogs and livestock). The antihunters took it back to court proving they dont care about the survival of the wolves at all. The only thing they care about is controlling you and stop you from hunting.

The wolves are beginning to cause real problems here and most people I talk to are fed up with the anti-hunters lack of care for wolves by allowing them not to be managed and are waiting for the wolves to hurt a child or older person then I imagine most will take the matter into their own hands very quickly so it will not be possible to prosecute.

And the wolf population will be back where it started. None.
Right where the Anti hunters mismanaged it to.

I personally think the wolves should be released closer to large urban areas so the people in the cities behind anti hunting can see first hand while fifi gets the chop.

Owoooooooooooooo!

redrover