Making My Own 8mm Jacketed Bullets

[gitano]

I updated post #30 to fix the problem created by moving pictures around in Photobucket.

Paul

[gitano]

Paul, Think that you could have some in 150gr to 200gr to me in time to work up a load to hunt deer with this fall?

HB made that request in post #11 of this thread, and I responded to it by saying that I didn't think I could do that with these jackets. However... That's "inside the box" thinking. Giving it a bit more thought, I concluded that there's nothing wrong with a 'large' exposed lead tip, so I made a 150-grain bullet with these jackets.

Here's what it looks like:


Personally, I have NO problem with that much exposed lead, and even more. However, my view of the world isn't often what would be considered "normal", so I don't know what others might think. At any rate, I can send some that look like this should you want to see how they shoot from your 8mm rifles.

Paul

[22hornet]

Is that much of a lead tip for increased projectile B.C. and weight?

I think that this one will work well. A big lead tip and heavy jacket could be a winner.

Hmmm,  Paul, you need some field testing. :D

[gitano]

The increased amount of exposed lead is simply a function of having a 'short' jacket, 22hornet. I wasn't thinking "normal" bullet weights when I conceived of swaging my own jacketed bullets. So when HB asked about "150 to 200", I just said "No", because I was thinking only in the context of what one always sees for exposed lead in 'factory' bullets. Upon further thought, I thought "Why not try it and see"? At 150 grains, this looks OK to me. At a MV of 3200 f/s (from my 8mm SLT), the BC is about .341. At 2800 f/s it's about .324. Assuming those numbers are close, they're not bad.

I'd love to have some Australian field testing! Would there be any "official" hassle with sending them to you in the mail? Send me a PM and we can discuss.

Paul

[gitano]

I have several hundred bullet jackets for .44 caliber (OD = 0.425"). They are 0.5" long and have the 'typical' 0.012" jacket wall thickness. I think I will make a swage to form those down to 8mm.  Once reduced to 0.323" OD, they will 'grow' in length. At the least, I will have another jacket to fiddle with.

Paul

[22hornet]

I'd love to have some Australian field testing! Would there be any "official" hassle with sending them to you in the mail? Send me a PM and we can discuss.
 
Paul

No problem with sending them Paul. I would just need to declare them to customs.

But I don't shoot an 8mm. The only guy I now know of that does would be Andy.

Now if you made some in 7mm....

[gitano]

Haven't seen Andy around THL for quite a while.

Paul

[22hornet]

He posted in the Australian Outdoor a few days ago. I don't know what he is currently up too.
 
I would like to arrange a Victorian Sambar hunt with Kombi, Jorge and Marcus sometime this winter.

[gitano]

So, as I mentioned, I decided to make another top punch for the core seating operation. One with two steps: One for the stub tenon of the plastic tip, and one to make certain that the punch was centered in the die. Because the body of the single-stepped punch fits just inside the jacket, if the punch was off-center even a little, it boogered the mouth of the jacket. This punch takes care of that nicely:


You'll note the set-screw in the head of the punch. You may recall that the first punch I made was made of 12L15 steel which has A LOT of lead in it. It is very nice to machine, but it does NOT harden, neither does it 'color', AND it is VERY 'soft'. Which means it bends easily. Since the "business end" of the punch is so small in diameter (0.175") relative to the diameter of the head (0.840"), there is a lot of waste in making these punches. Also, the "body" of the punch is a convenient 0.625" (5/8ths inch) in OD. Since tool ("hard") steel (O1, D2, W1, etc.) is more expensive, j0e_bl0ggs suggested that I make the working part of the punch from 0.625" round stock, and make a separate head from all of the 12L15 I have on hand. So I did.

I bought a 3' stick of O1 steel, 0.625" in diameter. I turned the body and shaft of the punch out of that, and turned the head from some of the 0.875" diameter 12L15 round stock I have on hand. I bored the head for a very tight fit of the body of the shaft; drilled and tapped for a 6-48 set screw; inserted the shaft, tightened the set screw, and 'there you go'. I also made it a little longer. These dies were not made for making "small" 8mm bullets. The existing punch lengths were just barely long enough to make "short" bullets.

The process of making a separate head is certainly more time consuming than simply milling all of it from one piece of stock. HOWEVER, there is much less waste, and significantly less cost, and the one commodity that I have a moderate surplus of is "time".

In the future, I may make the head and body of 12L15 and the shaft of 0.375" (3/8ths inch) "tool" steel.

I also removed the 3-foot-long handle, (remember how OVER-built this press is), and just used the handle off of an RCBS press. It's too small for the 0.75" hole for the long handle so I'll make a short handle that fits the swaging press's 0.75" hole. This bullet requires so little pressure to form, that a short handle works just fine, and allows me to get to "cam over" using this table, which in turn establishes a consistent "stop" thereby increasing the uniformity of the sizing/swaging.

Paul

[davidlt89]

Now if you made some in 7mm....

YEP!!! its discrimination against 7mm owners 22Hornet!!!:grin: God Bless.

[gitano]

The next "thing" I intend to try my hand at is the point forming die. The core swaging and core seating dies I have no doubt I can make. However, the point forming die requires a "reamer" of proper dimension, a straight extraction hole, AND fine polishing. None of those operations are "trivial", and trivial are the kind of milling skills I have.

Some of you may recall that I made a point forming die for my .50 Alaskan. What facilitated that fabrication was an over-the-counter, carbide, "tree" burr. The 0.500" version had the perfect profile for a 50 cal bullet. I haven't looked for .338, 8mm, 7mm, etc., tree burrs, but I'm not optimistic that they will have the proper ogive curve even if I find an appropriate diameter.

What that means is that I will have to make a reamer. I'm 'girding my loins' to take that task on again. The first one I will make will be in .338 caliber. If that turns out "ok", I'll branch out to 7mm, and others.

Paul

[drinksgin (deceased)]

The worst you can do is mess it up!
I seem to recall a similar conversation a few years ago that lead to you making a sizing die rather than waiting several weeks for someone to get around to making one for you.

[gitano]

WEEKS?!?!? It would have been YEARS for Corbin to make the .50 Alaskan bullet swaging dies.

We'll see what comes of this, but you're right. The worst it can be is "doesn't work.

Actually though, tomorrow I am going to make a fitted box for the dies I have. The floor on my reloading room is concrete, and if one of those dies rolls off onto the floor, the least that would happen is a dent. They are very brittle, and it is entirely possible that one would break. I am going to make a box that fits each die and punch so they will have a specific place to 'rest' while I am using one of the other ones.

Paul

[drinksgin (deceased)]

Just my rules for reamers, KISS and an odd number of flutes.
Just inherently lazy!

[gitano]

Sounds like good rules. I'll be making a "D" type for this initial effort. I think those are fine for "one off" operations. The one I made for the 8x39 chamber for the AR worked fine. It was the fourth reamer I made, and the only one that has worked. The others were made of the wrong alloy, or had some other problem that prevented them from cutting.

The first order of business is making/buying a radius cutter for my lathe. I'm looking at these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lathe-Radius-Ball-Turning-Tool-Concave-Convex-Radii-Turner-Ball-Attachment-/251227941636?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item3a7e5a2b04

And
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lathe-Radius-Ball-Turning-Attachment-Plans-/321062682813?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac0d3c0bd

Being able to specify and set up to cut a specific radius will facilitate the process immensely. I like the first one, (Repton), but they sold like 'hot cakes' before I could get a review on them.

The next "delicate" operation after proper PRECISE shaping is hardening. I have the kiln, so getting heat-soaked at 1400 F isn't an issue. However, controlling scale and uniform quenching (to prevent warping) is no small matter. I have some "paint" that provides the oxygen barrier to prevent scaling, but ensuring an even quench has still to be worked out.

And that's just the reamer. Then the die has to be cut, hardened and polished. According to j0e_bl0ggs, (who has actually made a set of swaging dies), one of the challenges is drilling the hole for the extractor rod. The diameter of the rod on the point forming die I have, is 0.090". The hole is about 0.160" according to Corbin's writing on the die. I have about an inch of die to drill through to get to the bullet cavity. That's 8-times the diameter of a 0.125" drill bit. Hitting the DEAD CENTER of the point is of course critical. The way to ensure precision placement of the ejection rod hole is to drill it first, then follow that hole with the reamer. However, doing that means drilling a 0.125" diameter hole through 2.5" of steel. None of which is "impossible", but it is certainly challenging.

Polishing, I am told, isn't too big a challenge. Then of course there is hardening the die without warping it.

Making dies in A GARAGE SHOP OPERATION is definitely challenging. For a business shop set up to do it, it's really not too big of a deal. There is no reason on God's green earth that it should take two years, ala Dave Corbin.

I can't understand why the likes of Pacific Tool and Gauge - a business that specializes in reamers - REFUSES to make bullet reamers. There are zillions of companies making "tree burrs" INCLUDING PTG! When I called to ask them to make a bullet point forming die reamer Dave Kiff - proprietor of PTG - flat out refused. Made me wonder if he doesn't have some kind of "agreement" with Dave Corbin. They are both located in White City, Oregon.

That may sound paranoid, but look at it objectively. A business (PTG) that is FOCUSED on making CUSTOM reamers INCLUDING "tree burrs", REFUSES (without explanation), to make what is essentially a "tree burr" if it is to be used to make a bullet point forming die. Coincidentally,
1) one (Dave Corbin) of only two businesses in the country making bullet swaging dies, and
2) the only one NOT using carbide, ($$$), and
3) that essentially has a monopoly on the business,
resides in the same SMALL town as the business (PTG) that FOCUSES on making reamers - except bullet point forming reamers.

Anyway... I'm going to 'make' my own, or break my sword trying. AS I said, next up is .338. Other calibers I'm interested in - like 7mm and .257 - already have a good selection of 'factory' bullets. I think after the .338, I might look at .416.  I'm happy with the .510 I already made, but I might make another one for this press IF making the other calibers 'works out'.

I am also going to make a "shearing" die to shear the belts off of belted magnum cases. You will  recall from this thread http://www.thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6608 that my first attempt at making bullets for the .50 Alaskan used the rear end of belted magnum cases. I was talking with Dave Corbin about that and he commented that 'lots of people' have done that. He then added "some even made dies to shear off the belt".

When I changed from using the butt of the case to using the front of the case for jackets, removing the belt became moot. (I was turning it off in my lathe.) However, now that I have a "real" swaging press, and at least some confidence in make dies, I think I will make a "belt shearing" die. That way I won't have to go through the labor of turning them off on the lathe, and I will be back to using all of the case instead of just the front end. It'd be nice to figure out how to "press" a boat-tail into the base, but I don't think even this press is up to that kind of pressure.

Paul