Wildcat considerations

[Jim80903]

I'm considering having a wildcat-cartridge rifle built using my Remington 700ADL .30-'06 action. I hope to get some advice and direction from those of you who have such experience.

This rifle will be used for hunting and target shooting. Accuracy (1/4-1/2 MOA) is very important. Species will be antelope, deer, elk. Terrain will be Colorado, from mountains to sage. Sakorick, you know the country well. ( I wanted to keep that Sako for myself, but my son loves it! We had a great elk hunt, not an elk find, but an elk hunt.) Range may be as much as 400 Yards.

I've been looking at .30-'06 Ackley Improved, .30 Gibbs, and .30 Dakota. There may be other cartridges I should be considering, perhaps even the standard .30-'06. I like .30 because there are so many bullets available, but maybe I should be looking at some sort of a .264, or whatever. Just so it doesn't have a belted case! I handload, and I am willing to use a long barrel to take advantage of more powder to burn. I'm using 135 to 165 gr Barnes XLC bullets for hunting, but less expensive bullets for practice. The gun, all tuned up and with trick parts, will be built by a Colorado 'smith who is accuracy oriented.

But then, with a price tag of around $2500, another question is whether I should buy a stock rifle for a more reasonable price.

Thanks for the assistance!

Jim80903 in wonderful Colorado Springs

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

Jim,
 
Howdy neighbor! Welcome to THL!
 
The 30-06 AI, tho not a wildcat, would be a good choice. Another is the 280 Rem AI or, my favorite, the 6.5-06 or the AI version.
 
I do believe my favorite, the 6.5-06, would do all that you require and then some. Opinions will vary on this one so be prepared.
 
You might want to check out the the "sticky" at the head of this forum....."6.5, is this the perfect caliber?" I think so and so far no one has given me any reason to change my mind.
 
Good hunting!:cool:
 
Ol' John:D

Ps..a pic is in order for my favorite...........here ya go!

[Jim80903]

LlanoJohn, Thanks for the input! and for the great picture. I have long wondered about the 6.5mm's. I like the idea of a 6.5-06. Is there a 6.5 (or.264) Gibbs, and is it something I should consider? Is the 6.5-06 adequate for elk? Thanks again!
 
Jim80903 in wonderful Colorado Springs
 
P.S. I've read so many of these posts that I feel several contributors are mentors and almost like old friends, with varied, interesting opinions(you, Gitano, Sakorick, et al).

[Jim80903]

LlanoJohn, another question: Why is .30-'06 Ackley Improved, and perhaps the other AI's, not considered a wildcat? I thought wildcats were those cartridges developed by hobbyists, tinkerers, gun enthusiasts, and others, not the major small arms manufacturers and not available in mainstream commercially available chamberings. Are Ackley Improved's available, now or in the past, from major commercial sources? Thanks!
 
Jim in Wonderful Colorado Springs

[Hunterbug]

All of the ones that you listed are good choices but what about a 338-06? Loaded with a 185gr Barnes TSX or a 180gr Nosler Accubond or ballistic Tip all to 2900+fps it will reach out and touch them and make a bigger hole when it gets there. The more elk I shoot the more of a fan I become in putting as big a hole in them as possible. If Gitano ever gets around to posting about our elk hunt this year you'll see why. And it'll work like a charm on deer and antelope too. Welcome aboard and let us know what you decide.
 
I disagree with John on 2 points. The AIs are wildcats because you can't buy factory ammo for them and they don't come chambered in factory rifles. In my opinion that makes them wildcats. I also disagree with John on chosing the 6.5-06. It's a great deer and antelope caliber but only marginal on elk. Yes it would work but there are many better choices. Again it comes down to frontal area and bigger holes.

[recoil junky]

I'd get it chambered in 30-06 A.I. I can get a 180 grain Hornay SST to a tad over 3000 fps with H4350. It will go faster but not accurately out my old Enfield. I use 165 gr. Hordady sprie pt. BT's and have them running at 2970 fps, again not as fast as they will go but a very accurate load. It is my understanding and my observation that making something Ackley Improved not only gives you more powder capacity but makes the cartridge more efficient. The same bullet with same powder charge runs a good 100 fps slower in a friends 700 BDL. The 165 gr. bullet load is under max. for a "standard" '06.
 
I'd have to agree that a 6.5-06 would be a bit light for elk, mainly for the fact (I hope I don't start a war with where this could lead) that I think a 270 is marginal for elk. I've been on the retrieving end of a few elk that were hit with a gun that was "too small". Not a fun end to an otherwise good day. Yes a 243 will kill an elk BUT, I like to have every advantage and decrease the number of vairiables as much as possible.
 
Building a custom rifle is something I've always wanted to do and the Remington 700 action is a good foundation. IMO it's not how fast or how big of a bullet you use it's all in the delivery and an accurate rifle is a good place to start. The next step is getting enough trigger time to make sure you can do your part when the time comes. One thing that concerns me is that people shoot one bullet to pracice with and another to hunt with. Unless both bullets have the same ballistic coefficent, have the same p.o.i. and are going the same speed etc. it's kind of a moot point.
 
My most recent elk rifle is a Sendero SFII in 300RUM. It is quite accurate and with a bit more tinkering I feel confident that I can get it to shoot 1/4 to 1/2 moa groups at 100 yards. And yes I'll use the same bullet to hunt with as I will to practice with. So what if they cost $50 for a box of 100. I've got over $1500 in the rifle so why not.
 
JMHO
 
RJ

[nrthrn_maine_hunter]

I agree with recoil juny, the less variables you have to deal with, the better.  If I personally were making up a custom rifle and wildcat cartridge to go along with it, I would go with a 7-300 Wby mag.  It's a 300 WBY mag case necked down to a 7mm.  I know it is not a 06 sized case, so may be pointless to say, but figured I'd give my 2cents.
If there is a 25-06 AI, that would be my vote, but I'm not sure if there is a such thing.

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

LlanoJohn, another question: Why is .30-'06 Ackley Improved, and perhaps the other AI's, not considered a wildcat?  Well, some are and some are not!  In a properly AI chambered rifle, factory available ammo can be used in a pinch!  The 25-06, 280 Rem and the 30-06 are examples.  The 6.5-06AI and the 338-06AI are true wildcats as there is no factory available ammo. I thought wildcats were those cartridges developed by hobbyists, tinkerers, gun enthusiasts, and others, not the major small arms manufacturers and not available in mainstream commercially available chamberings. Are Ackley Improved's available, now or in the past, from major commercial sources? Nope!Thanks!
 
Jim in Wonderful Colorado Springs

It is my understanding that A-Square has ammo available for the 6.5-06 and 338-06 if you are willing to pay over $2.00 a round or $40.00 a box just to obtain brass with the correct headstamp..........Not me!

Ol' John:D

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

All of the ones that you listed are good choices but what about a 338-06?  An excellent choice! Loaded with a 185gr Barnes TSX or a 180gr Nosler Accubond or ballistic Tip all to 2900+fps it will reach out and touch them and make a bigger hole when it gets there. The more elk I shoot the more of a fan I become in putting as big a hole in them as possible. If Gitano ever gets around to posting about our elk hunt this year you'll see why. And it'll work like a charm on deer and antelope too. Welcome aboard and let us know what you decide.
 
I disagree with John on 2 points. The AIs are wildcats because you can't buy factory ammo for them and they don't come chambered in factory rifles. In my opinion that makes them wildcats. I also disagree with John on chosing the 6.5-06. I will not get into the age old debate over the killing power of the 6.5 caliber...since the Swedes and Norwegians have been using the 6.5x55 for over 100 years to dispatch elk in their homelands, it is simply a non issue for me!  I'm sorry..I forgot...the elk here in the states are armor plated and require big eargersplitten loudenboomers to penetrate that armor plate.  My apologies! It's a great deer and antelope caliber but only marginal on elk. Yes it would work but there are many better choices. Again it comes down to frontal area and bigger holes.

Probably the least expensive way to get that wildcat 338-06AI would be to send it to Dan Pederson, Classic Barrel & Gunworks, ..//www.cutrifle.com and have him rebore and chamber for that particular cartridge!  He does great work as Gitano can attest to!

Ol' John:D

[LLANOJOHN (deceased)]

Friends & neighbors!

I have been using my 6.5-06 for better than 40 years and the rifle is so familiar to me that is like an extension of my body!  I would not hesitate to use it on Elk.  Proper bullet selection and SHOT PLACEMENT is the most important factor in this whole equation.

I think I would go with the standard 338-06 rather than the AI version as the velocity increase is minimal but thats just me.
The 338x57AI (Gitano's and my little creation) should also be a fine Elk cartridge...maybe someday we will find out...the good Lord willin' and the creek don't rise!:D :D

Ol' John;)

[klallen]

Afternoon JIM80903  >>  I see at the end of the original post you're questioning the prospect of spending $2500 for a custom rig over factory.  I start this by saying that I love my customs that I have built and wouldn't trade a one for anything.  That said, sticking with something factory is certainly a money-conscious alternative.  With elk in the consideration, I personally wouldn't choose anything smaller then a cartridge from the .284 class.  Larger caliber class even preferable.  A magnum round, of course.  Lots of good stuff out there to consider.  The .325 WSM would be a fun one to play with.  When you consider you can get yourself the rifle and scope for pert-near 1/3 of what a custom might cost ya, you certainly have to take that into account in the decision making process.
 
On the .264 caliber class for elk, not for me personally.  I don't have the love for the .264 caliber class, in general, as HONDO does, but I've a health dose of respect for my Ruger .264 WinMag.  Still don't see it as an elk rifle.  Moreso because of how I've got it loaded then anything else, though.  It's a primary antelope rifle, secondary deer rifle.  As such, my load is developed around the fast moving, flat shooting 120 gr. Ballistic Tip.  Not what I consider elk fodder.  I do believe that there are bullets that can be found in the class that would fair much better on elk, but just don't have the need to push this relatively small bullet into that kind of service.  My elk bullet is a 200 gr. AccuBond from a 7.82 Warbird or a 280 gr. A-Frame from a .358 STA.  Even loading a 140 or 160 .264 bullet don't put my WinMag into the class of these two offerings so I'm content letting it wreak havoc on the smaller game animals we have up here.
 
I must add, with the confidence I know HONDO has in his 6.5 offerings, I'd never fault him for hunting elk with'm if he chose to do so.  It's to small for me     ...     it's just right for him.  Just personal preferences.  I assure ya, if we walked into the hills together hunting elk, him toting his 6.5-06 and me my .358 STA and we each had shot opportunities, I've no doubt both of us would walk out with tags filled, proof we each made the right decision on the selection of the cartridge for the task.  He talks about shot placement being the "most important factor in the whole equation" but I believe it's all about confidence.  If you've got confidence in what you're using, proper shot placement simply falls into place and your level of lethality ( is that a word, lol ) raises dramatically.  If 280 grs. of A-Frame muscle gives me the confidence I need to take on elk     ...     it's the right call.  I guess I'd view HONDO or anyone elses decision the same.  If 40 years of hunting with a smaller round breeds the confidence necessary to take on elk     ...     it's the right call for that feller.  I have an uncle who hunted elk for years with a .22-250 back in the late 60's, early 70's.  He was wildly successful with it.  It's something I'd never try, repeat that  NEVER try.  I talked with him on many occasions about it.  In the end, ya simply couldn't argue with his success.  For me, again, confidence is what it's all about.  A hunter with total confidence in the rifle he's carrying (no matter the size of the cartridge in the chamber) is an extremely dangerous combination.  There's no doubt about that.
 
Caht with you fellas later.  >>  klallen

[sakorick]

Hello Jim...seems as if you stirred things up here a bit. First, You don't have to spend that much money.

Competitive Edge in Missouri does my work as I do stocks for them....however, Larry Crow is top dog. His shop is sensational!

I like the 30'06AI for a number of reasons.....first, I like the 30'06. Next, the AI just flat makes it a 300 H&H magnum in a easy to make '06 case. The bottom line is sensational.....I'm doing testing on mine now, however, the deer season is still afoot here in Northern Missouri so the testing is on the back burner. You are on the right track....keep asking the prudent questions. I'll be back on the forum 100% after the middle of December. Later, Rick.

[Hunterbug]

John, the Scandinavians hunt moose with their 6.5s, not elk. Elk are, in my opinion, the toughest non dangerous game, i.e. coastal brown bear, grizzly, etc. animal in North America. The elk that I shot when hunting with Gitano was right at 300 yards away. I was using my 338 Win Mag with a 200gr Barnes XFB loaded to around 2900fps. The estimated impact velocity was 2200fps with an estimated impact energy of just over 2300 foot pounds. The bullet entered the right side of the animal going directly through the center of the right lung, continuing through the upper lobe of the left lung before exiting the animal. She showed no reaction to the hit other than to turn and run away. She didn't jump, stumble, fall, nothing. She traveled about 50 yards before begining to splay her hooves. She then traveled about another 50 yards before dying for a total of about 100 yards leaving a good blood trail the whole way. As I said, a very tough animal. Now would a 6.5-06 have killed the animal with the same hit? Yes, I belive that it would. The question is would the animal have expired as quickly or left as heavy a blood trail? I do not think so. Please keep in mind that this was a cow elk and like most species the females are smaller than the males. A nice bull can go 750 pounds or more and are just as tough to kill. So it's not a question of can the 6.5-06 kill elk. I belive that it can, has, and will continue to do so. It's more a question of how far will the animal go before expiring and will it be recovered?
 
The 338 MAI is another story. I feel that it would make a fine elk caliber. I carried gitano's for a while and missed an elk with it. I may have been carrying it when I shot my elk if not for other factors that I will allow gitano to expand upon in another thread that I hope he starts soon. In all honesty though I am thankfull that I had my 338 Win Mag when it came time to make that shot because I am familure with the rifle and the load and I was not with Gitano's gun. Also my rifle has a Harris bi-pod and a 3-9X40 scope and Gitano's had a straight 4X and that was a pretty far shot for a 4X scope.

[gitano]

Hmmm.... Now that I am an elk hunting expert, having one full elk hunt under my belt, I feel fully qualified to comment on the "elk issue" this thread has turned in to.
 
Without belaboring the point, I'd not choose anything below 8mm for elk. Can you kill 'em with less, you betcha, and as John pinted out, the 6.5 caliber is used with regularity in Scandanavia on the small, Scandanavian moose. Still, it wouldn't be my choice for an elk caliber if I were standing in H&H's store in London and being told I could have free for the asking, any rifle I wanted for "an elk rifle". Put the bullet where it's supposed to go, and ANY caliber will do the job. I personally just wouldn't select a 6.5 as a first choice.
 
Next, I'll comment on the 7x300 Weatherby. I had a rifle made specficially for hunting sheep in this chambering, and have used it for that and other purposes for 25 years. It's a great sheep cartridge, but not better than the 7mm Rem Mag (which I also have and have used extensively). As I said above, I would not choose a caliber less than 8mm for an "elk gun". Again, do many elk die each year form 7mm bullets? You betcha! 7mm is just not my first choice. Furthermore, I have hunted and shot both pronghorns and mule deer with the 7x300, and it has absolutely no advantage over the 7mm Rem Mag. I don't care what paper ballistics say - it simply doesn't kill any deader, and it doesn't shoot any "longer". (Byt the way, the 7mm STW is the exact ballistic equivalent of the 7x300 Weatherby.) I learned a lot from that cartridge, but it is now retired with the exception of use on sheep hunts, and then only for familiaritie's sake.
 
I'm also now the owner of three AI cartridges, and the God's honest truth is that I won't have another. I have seen no practical gain, and all three have "issues". For me, the hassles out weigh the marginal ballistic gains. Others, as seen from the above posts, disagree.
 
So, what would I build if I were after a custom wildcat rifle today? Very high on the List would be John's .338 MAI. I know, I know, it's an AI right after I said I wouldn't own another one. First, I already own one, (.338 MAI), so I'm not getting another, and second, I really wouldn't mind it if it was NOT AI'd. Of course that brings us to the .338-'06. An outstanding cartridge without a doubt. Personally, the '06 case is a deal-breaker for me, but that's purely a personal matter.
 
Going from pronghorns to elk means your gonna hafta choose which animal is going to be most important in the cartridge selection. If it's elk, then as I said, I'd go with a caliber 8mm or larger. The .338 is an excellent caliber, shooting 'flatter' than both the '06 and the 7mm RM in almost any case it's put on. The .338 Win Mag for instance is an outstanding pronghorn cartridge. ("Too much" bullet weight at impact is a silly idea. Too much recoil is not.) If on the other hand, pronghorns are going to be the 'primary' game sought, then something in a 6.5mm might be in order. Personally, I like the .260. If you want a wildcat, find a .260 variant.
 
If you weren't restricting the choice to a bolt action, then we could really open up some choices.
 
Paul

[Jim80903]

Whoo-boy! I am finally back on the forum. Thank You, All, for your interesting, thoughtful replies. You have provoked many thoughts and more questions. After reading the thread, considering the contributions, and thinking about them, again, I will have more questions. I am totally wowed with the quality of dialogue and interchange, here! I appreciate the willingness with which you are ALL sharing very valuable personal shooting/hunting experiences, thoughts, and opinions. Back soon with more questions!

[RatherBHuntin]

Jim, I feel like that every day.  I am convinced if the information I need isn't in the heads of the members here, it isn't known yet.  You absolutely will not find another web site with as many helpful, polite members.

[buckshot roberts]

RBH, + 1 :D Same here, Ron

[sakorick]

Whoo-boy! I am finally back on the forum. Thank You, All, for your interesting, thoughtful replies. You have provoked many thoughts and more questions. After reading the thread, considering the contributions, and thinking about them, again, I will have more questions. I am totally wowed with the quality of dialogue and interchange, here! I appreciate the willingness with which you are ALL sharing very valuable personal shooting/hunting experiences, thoughts, and opinions. Back soon with more questions!

Hello Jim. The 30'06 is a fine Elk cartridge and the AI just makes it a little better. I am hunting with a 6.5-'06 Ackley this year for deer......Having grown up in Colorado, hunted and bagged around 8 Elk.....I would say that the minimum caliber for these critters is a 30'06.

How is the Sako doing? Did your son get a chance at a deer? OBTW, I would buy that rifle back for what you paid for it if you should come on hard times. I made room in the safe by selling a Garcia '06. Regards, Rick......and thanks for the note on mother.....very thoughtful.

[Jim80903]

Hi Rick,
 
Ben (16) loves the .30-'06 L61 Sako and Burris scope! (And I love it, too!) The original was sort of mashed, so I fitted a Limbsaver recoil pad to it, and it's a pleasure to shoot!
 
We hunted the Flat Tops Wilderness, second season, and had a great time. The season started Oct 21, and in spite of plans to be there a couple of days early, Zach's (18, shoots a LH Charles Daly Mauser .30-'06) college obligations and my work prevented us from leaving for the area, NE of Glenwood springs and NW of Dotsero Junction, until Saturday, so we missed out on opening day. There were 12-24" of snow on the ground when we arrived at our camp spot. Over the next two days, we covered a lot of ground, slept warm in 9 degree temps, and ate well, but we saw neither deer nor elk. We intended to stay another day, but a big snow was blowing in from the NW, so we decided to get out while we could. Good thing we did, because the area got lots of snow, and we'd have been in trouble had we stayed. So...our four day hunt was abreviated to only two, but we had a great Dad/Son time! (Though an elk or deer or two or three would have been nice...)
 
Thanks for your thoughts on the next rifle. It seems like there is a consensus, with some notable dissension, that .30 caliber (and larger) is appropriate for elk. I appreciate it's versatility. You like the .30-'06 Ackley Improved; did you consider the .30 Gibbs? And, if you did, why did you choose the AI rather than the Gibbs?
 
Thanks for your input! And...Ben hasn't said anything about wanting to sell that rifle!

[Jim80903]

Paul, thanks for the thoughtful reply. Now I'm curious...if we didn't limit this rifle to a bolt action, what action and what cartridge would you choose, and, why? You also commented on the '06 case, but I couldn't tell if you liked it or disliked it. Please elaborate. Thanks, again.

[Hunterbug]

Gitano does not like the 30-06 or any round dirived from it's case. No particular reason, he just doesn't like it. It's just one of his wierd little personality quirks.

[nrthrn_maine_hunter]

Alright, Need something bigger than the 7mm? and yes if you shoot a 180gr out of the 338 Win, it shoots about the same as a 7mm with a 150 gr bullet, so why not get something that shoots a 200-225 gr bullet as flat as that or flatter, 338RUM or 300RUM or 340 WBY.  
Now will the 06 AI do the job, yeah, and is it over 8mm no, but why not get the best of both worlds, big hole and flat shooting.  SHooting a big bullet does not mean you need to sacrifice ballistics.  All depends on your tolerance for recoil, and the gun you buy/ get made will determine the felt recoil greatly!
May not be very helpful or what you are looking for, but need to give my 2cents

[sakorick]

Hi Rick,
 
Ben (16) loves the .30-'06 L61 Sako and Burris scope! (And I love it, too!) The original was sort of mashed, so I fitted a Limbsaver recoil pad to it, and it's a pleasure to shoot!
 
We hunted the Flat Tops Wilderness, second season, and had a great time. The season started Oct 21, and in spite of plans to be there a couple of days early, Zach's (18, shoots a LH Charles Daly Mauser .30-'06) college obligations and my work prevented us from leaving for the area, NE of Glenwood springs and NW of Dotsero Junction, until Saturday, so we missed out on opening day. There were 12-24" of snow on the ground when we arrived at our camp spot. Over the next two days, we covered a lot of ground, slept warm in 9 degree temps, and ate well, but we saw neither deer nor elk. We intended to stay another day, but a big snow was blowing in from the NW, so we decided to get out while we could. Good thing we did, because the area got lots of snow, and we'd have been in trouble had we stayed. So...our four day hunt was abreviated to only two, but we had a great Dad/Son time! (Though an elk or deer or two or three would have been nice...)
 
Thanks for your thoughts on the next rifle. It seems like there is a consensus, with some notable dissension, that .30 caliber (and larger) is appropriate for elk. I appreciate it's versatility. You like the .30-'06 Ackley Improved; did you consider the .30 Gibbs? And, if you did, why did you choose the AI rather than the Gibbs?
 
Thanks for your input! And...Ben hasn't said anything about wanting to sell that rifle!

Hello Jim.....it's true that the Gibbs version is hotter than the Ackley version, however, the Gibbs conversion requires more gunsmithing. The Ackley version need no headspace mods whilst the Gibbs does. In other words, you can fire a standard '06 case in an Ackley version but not a Gibbs.....Llano John can explain it better than I can....he is a real Smith and I'm a hack. The Gibbs cartridge is a whole different animal and I'm not sure about the availability of dies. Your son's Sako is pressure tested to 60,000 psi at the factory which should handle nearly everything. If it were me, I sure wouldn't jibber with the L61R. There are many many very nice Mauser actions out there that you can play with. Regards, Rick.

[Jim80903]

Rick, don't worry, we're not about to mess with the Sako. It's too nice to change.:) I've wanted one for over 20 years, so I'm not going to change it at all, and it's Ben's not mine. (How did that happen?)

LlanoJohn, maybe you can explain about the headspace, etc.

Thanks!

[Jim80903]

nrthrn maine hunter, I am a little recoil sensitive. I like to take the rifles to the range and use up ammo regularly, so I can continue to become a better rifleman. It's not unusual for me to go out to the range and use up 100 rounds, so I am trying to keep recoil down.
 
Thanks for the input!

[Hunterbug]

And I don't think that any of thoes rounds will work in the '06 action specified.

[gitano]

Paul, thanks for the thoughtful reply. Now I'm curious...if we didn't limit this rifle to a bolt action, what action and what cartridge would you choose, and, why? You also commented on the '06 case, but I couldn't tell if you liked it or disliked it. Please elaborate. Thanks, again.

Waaal... As HB said, I just have a personal prejudice against the '06. It really is a personal matter, and doesn't mean I fail to appreciate the versatility of the '06... I just wouldn't own one unless it was given to me - two have been, and I still have them. I just don't shoot 'em.
 
Now, if you're going to consider something other than a bolt gun - and I mean a single shot or double rifle, not pump or semi-auto - there are some considerations that simply fall by the wayside, and only a couple that arise newly.
 
A a break-open rifle eliminates almost any discussion of case design (except for the most outlandish). While some will argue that any case that can be used in a break-open gun can be used in a bolt gun, I would agree only as long as we're talkin' "theoretical". Practically speaking, there are cases that don't work 100% of the time in bolt guns - most Ackley's are some I would submit that fall into that category. Of course you give up those "fast follow-up shots" with a single shot action. While that doesn't bother me a bit, it does bother some. The double rifle takes care of that 'worry' though. Of course doubles are beyond the financial reach of most of us, and certainly a long way on the far side of $2500. (There is a fellow THLer (Colorado) that is making big bore SxS doubles from SxS shotguns for about $2500 though.)
 
Personally, I relish hunting with a single-shot or double arm, even when hunting birds. (Note my choice to use the 1878 Martini-Enfield for my first ever elk hunt last month.) Truth is, it's the extraordinarily rare third shot that hits either fur or feather.
 
However, I suspect neither the single or double is what you are in the mind of at the moment, and that's perfectly reasonable. You're the one selecting a rifle, not me or anybdy else here at THL. I also think you've gotten about as good a coverage on the subject as one is likely to get from a WWW forum.
 
It is my opinion that in the end, (and within reason), cartridge and caliber are of small consequence. I'd offer that you will serve yourself much better by focusing your decision on the type and configuration, (look and feel), of the rifle. Cartridges come and go - a rifle you can bond to will be a joy for generations.
 
Paul

[nrthrn_maine_hunter]

I relize that none of the rounds I mentiones would fit in the 06 action, mentioned that before I started my rambling, at least I ment to acknowlegde that.
Anyway, the 338 Win is a proven cartridge, but never been a huge fan of it.  Handloaded with a good 180-200 gr bullet, the AI version would definately do the trick. My vote for the 06 action.
If thats still a little too much recoil, my appologies.
I am a huge fan of cartridges like the 25-06 or the 6.5-06 like was already mentioned by someone.  For what you are looking for, the 6.5 would be a little better for elk.
God is Love!
Justin