Another "which caliber" thread

[AZ-Robert]

Another new guy here with the typical new guy question -- which cartridge?
 
I'm shopping for a gun that will be used only for coyotes, so it doesn't have to be a one-size-fits-all rifle that is also good for varmints or also good for deer. I've pretty much boiled it down to a choice between the .204 Ruger and the .223 Remington, both in a rifle that uses a 1:12 twist. I think I sorted out the pros and cons of those two cartridges but I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom.
 
I'm in the "high desert" of southern Arizona. There is the occasional long shot but in the places I hunt I don't really see taking anything longer than about 300 yards.
 
Coyotes around here run about 35 lbs - 45 lbs on average.
 
I'm not a fur hunter, but I'd like to keep that option open by using a cartridge that will handle a lethal but fur-friendly load. I'm not (yet) a reloader / hand loader so my thinking is framed by the availability of commercial loads that will do the job. (but the way it looks this coyote rifle will probably take me down the hand loading path)
 
I've heard lots of good things about the .204 --- flat trajectory, moves fast enough to avoid excessive wind drift at the ranges I'll be shooting, very little recoil, etc --- but I'm hearing it mostly from varmint hunters. I'd like to hear from guys using it on coyotes. Is this round humanely killing coyotes at ranges between 50 and 300 yards? Anybody had shots that were well placed but which left them "barely dead" when you walked up on them?
 
And how about that old standby, the .223? I'm looking at the CZ 527, which has a 1:12 twist instead of the faster twist used by Savage. I'm guessing that puts an upper limit of about 60 grains on the bullet for reasonable accuracy...true? What bullet are you .223 shooters using for coyotes... 50 grain? 55 grain? V-max? PSP? Anything not to like about the .223 when used on coyotes between 50 and 300 yards?
 
And if any of you guys are using both now, which would you pick if you were picking only one for coyotes?
 
I know you guys see these kinds of questions come around pretty often, so thanks in advance for yet another round of answers.

[Gmoney]

I'll make this short...:)
 
In terms of "killing power" both are relatively equal I'd say...
 
.204 is flatter, .223 can shoot heavies....
 
Pick a rifle platform you want, throw some good glass on it and make the first shot count....
 
Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement....
 
.204 for long ranges/penetration go with the 35 or 40 Berger as their BC is "okay"....
All the tipped bullets may sometimes give you a splash on the shoulders but if a tipped is required I'd go 40 Vmax or Ballistic tip....
 
Also depends if you roll your own as well..
 
.223 try the 60 Vmax....
 
My .02 but but someone else will tell you something else as there are different preferences...
 
-Greg

[Daryl (deceased)]

Robert,
 
Personally, I'm using a .17 Remington, and it kills them just fine (placing the bullet well, of course).  I can't see where either cartridge you are looking at would have any trouble killing a coyote at 300 yards.
 
If I were making your choice, I'd choose the .204.  My situation is similar to yours, yet different too.  I hunt coyotes in the high desert of Arizona as well (mostly Cochise County, but I oft-times go to other areas of the state), but I'm a handloader.  Truthfully, availability and price of ammo would be the only reason I'd choose the .223 between the two cartridges you're looking at.
 
Killing ability between the two is very comparable, but the .204 shoots faster, flatter, and will likely give you less hide damage with the lighter bullets.
 
Daryl

[Ausmarksman]

Can't beat the .223 remington....

Accurate, fast, good selection of bullets (Barnes 63gr. Varmint Grenade!!), Cheap FMJ......

It's just a very tried and tested cartridge.  

[nrthrn_maine_hunter]

I would go with then .204 as well for the reasons mentioned previously.  
THe 40gr v-max's loaded by hornady are worth cheching out!
Which ever you decide on, I am sure you will be happy with the performance
God is Love!
Justin

[recoil junky]

I'd go with the twotwothree myself. Mine in 788 shoots anything from 40's to 65's very well. (1:12 twist) The 40 grain Vmax is devastating on yotes. It won't over penetrate a fox so I doubt if it would go through a yote either. Plus it shoots very flaaaaaaaat. It's part of my p'dog and ground squirrel arsenal to so it gets a real work out this time of year.

RJ

[AZ-Robert]

Thanks for the insights, guys.
 
Daryl, it looks like we are neighbors. I'm in SV -- do most of my hunting on post and in the area east of Tombstone.

[Daryl (deceased)]

Robert,
 
Yep, we're neighbors.   I'm at the south end of Sierra Vista; almost in Hereford.  We also hunt some of the same country.  I don't hunt the fort, though I've hunted the area between the base and the Babocamori river.  Hard to get access in there except off base unless you happen to know the caretaker of that ranch.   Used to be pretty good calling in there, but it's been a while.
 
I didn't do much good around Tombstone this last winter.  Too many callers in that area maybe.
 
I've been spending more time farther away from SV, and the calling is better when I do.
 
Just out of curiosity, did you happen to kill a mt lion on the east range a few years back?  If you did, then we've already met a time or two.
 
Daryl

[AZ-Robert]

Just out of curiosity, did you happen to kill a mt lion on the east range a few years back? If you did, then we've already met a time or two.

No, that wasn't me, Daryl.
 

I didn't do much good around Tombstone this last winter.

Nor me.... zero!
 
BTW, just put in an order for a CZ 527 in .204 Ruger. I hope I'll be content with factory loadings for a while but my guess is it will be this rifle that finally tips me over the edge into handloading. I'm sure I'll be asking for load recommendations before too much longer.
 
Thanks for all the info, guys.

[Daryl (deceased)]

Robert,
 
My rifle's a CZ 527 in .17 Remington.  Got it through Trail Boss Outfitters several years ago.  They're good rifles, that's for sure!
 
Good luck, and maybe we can get together for a calling trip one of these days.
 
Daryl

[Gmoney]

Daryl,
 
Seems quit a few folks from Arizona have taken a liking to a .204 in CZ...
 
....
 
I started a trend....grin...

[recoil junky]

I've shot a 204 but not in a CZ. It was ok, but I'll want to see it in 30+ years after it's had as many rounds through it as my 788 in .223. Last count, somewhere near 9000. I just can't see the barrel in one of them little bores lasting all that long.

RJ

[Gmoney]

RC,
 
If you haven't shot a .204 you need to give it a go for sure....
Even though .223 owners can get a little stubborn......
 
Even if my barrel lasted 30 years I imagine I'd have gone through at least 10 rifles in that time as for some reason I usually shuffle the herd pretty often.......

[Daryl (deceased)]

Daryl,
 
Seems quit a few folks from Arizona have taken a liking to a .204 in CZ...
 
....
 
I started a trend....grin...

Yep, maybe you did at that!
 
Actually, there are a lot of fellas around here who like small bores.  The big game hunting in this area is limited, so predator calling is pretty popular.
 
Don sure likes that .204 you sold him.  :)
 
Daryl

[Gmoney]

:)....
 
It was a shooter no doubt about that and literally brand new....
 
He likes it cause he literally stole it from me.......
 
Glad he's enjoying it.
 
Would you happen to know what bullet he's loading for it out of curiousity sake?